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worowa
Professor

Registered: 06/29/07
Posts: 299
Last seen: 9 months, 12 days
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Who uses perlite or vermiculite for spawn?
#10023819 - 03/23/09 12:38 AM (14 years, 10 months ago) |
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Just wondering if anyone here has tried perlite or vermiculite instead of grain, and if so, do you hydrate it with a nutrient broth?
Any positives or negatives?
-------------------- We are all in this together. Visit my site, forestfungi.com.au, let me know what you think.
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plox
claisen condensate


Registered: 05/18/08
Posts: 103
Loc: Geographic Location (Stat...
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Re: Who uses perlite or vermiculite for spawn? [Re: worowa]
#10023991 - 03/23/09 01:25 AM (14 years, 10 months ago) |
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no, you can not use perlite or vermiculite instead of grain or any other substrate. perlite and vermiculite are used for humidity and water per volume control. they have absolutely no nutrients for the myc itself.
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RogerRabbit
Bans for Pleasure



Registered: 03/26/03
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Loc: Seattle
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Re: Who uses perlite or vermiculite for spawn? [Re: plox]
#10025324 - 03/23/09 10:32 AM (14 years, 10 months ago) |
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Not correct.
Perlite spawn is a long-used method, described in Stamets' books, but I don't like it because the perlite is too light in weight to break up easily. Vermiculite makes a pretty good spawn, but has the same problem. While perlite may not have much in the way of nutrients, the same is not true of vermiculite. It's used in commercial spawn production by the biggest name in the business. It's also referred to as 'fertilizer' by the manufacturer.
For small operation use, it's still my opinion that rye berries can't be beat. RR
-------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat "I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work." Thomas Edison
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Seroind
Student



Registered: 11/01/08
Posts: 79
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Re: Who uses perlite or vermiculite for spawn? [Re: RogerRabbit]
#10025896 - 03/23/09 12:23 PM (14 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Amycel said: The mycelium at this stage is referred to as inoculum and is added in the form of mycelium grown on a sterilized vermiculite mixture.
Does anyone happen to know what is in the 'mixture'?
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worowa
Professor

Registered: 06/29/07
Posts: 299
Last seen: 9 months, 12 days
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Re: Who uses perlite or vermiculite for spawn? [Re: Seroind]
#10026748 - 03/23/09 02:32 PM (14 years, 10 months ago) |
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Apparently vermiculite also has one of the highest CECs, ie. Cation Exchange Capacities.
-------------------- We are all in this together. Visit my site, forestfungi.com.au, let me know what you think.
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Paresthesia
Stranger



Registered: 07/02/08
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Loc: Texas
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Re: Who uses perlite or vermiculite for spawn? [Re: worowa]
#10026894 - 03/23/09 02:57 PM (14 years, 10 months ago) |
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There's an older thread (Search for "Formula 83", check the patent application here: http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/6029394/description.html) in the cultivation section regarding spawn of this nature. In the case of this stuff, vermiculite could be substituted for newspaper pellets, and the addition of the gravel (turface) material helps with breaking up the spawn.
I've made up something similar to formula 83 using blood meal, but I didn't get good results. I also didn't let it hydrate properly so a lot of clumps adhered to the sides of jars. It also smelled bad, and contaminated easily due to the high nitrogen content. I only later discovered that blood meal needs to be composted to be an effective supplement.
I still use CGM for sawdust supplementation, and it works pretty well. Dirt cheap at feed stores, too!
-------------------- "We shall not cease from exploration, and the end of all our exploring will be to arrive where we started and know the place for the first time." - T. S. Eliot
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Pinback
Stranger


Registered: 07/20/02
Posts: 836
Loc: Europe
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Re: Who uses perlite or vermiculite for spawn? [Re: RogerRabbit] 1
#10037210 - 03/25/09 06:03 AM (14 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
RogerRabbit said: While perlite may not have much in the way of nutrients, the same is not true of vermiculite. It's used in commercial spawn production by the biggest name in the business.
This is what they wrote when I emailed them: "The vermiculite is not actually used in the classic spawn but is used in our CAC'ing spawn. I don't know how familiar you are with commercial CAC spawn but it is typically a low nutrient formulation that is used to spawn the casing layer and accelerate colonization of the casing and thereby shorten the cropping cycle. We utilize vermiculite as an inert ingredient that has excellent water holding properties as well as being a support for the blend of materials we use in our CAC formulations. We have several different versions of CAC and the ratio of vermiculite will change accordingly based on the mix of other materials.
Although our CAC'ing spawn can be used as normal spawn. The negatives are the rather short shelf life due to the level of nutrients and the lack of a nutrient boost when used as regular spawn. Growers have come to rely on the additional food source provided in the grain spawn to fuel colonization of the compost as well as a form of supplementation."
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