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InvisibleIcelander
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Living with philosophy
    #10031640 - 03/24/09 09:17 AM (15 years, 8 days ago)

I think philosophy is very easy and fun when one is beginning their journey in life. It seems you can pick anything you like and make it seem real for awhile at least.

Over time some become aware that philosophy is personal and and the events of life often challenge cherished beliefs. You have more experience and so many beliefs don't fit so well anymore. You may find yourself adopting a philosophy you would rater not but your logic and personal honesty can't let go of it.

To be honest I wish I could believe in many the new age beliefs and philosophies I come across and used to believe in. But I can't convince myself they are real. Yet at one time they were my choice. Maybe I thought I might actually alter my base personality structure. But I haven't. And why should I pretend I think differently then I actually in my head and heart do?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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OfflineRedrawing
Psychonaut


Registered: 04/03/08
Posts: 526
Last seen: 13 years, 5 months
Re: Living with philosophy [Re: Icelander]
    #10033255 - 03/24/09 02:56 PM (15 years, 8 days ago)

"Let us not pretend to doubt in philosophy what we do not doubt in our hearts."

--C.S. Peirce


--------------------


I'm an insect who dreamt he was a man and loved it, but now that dream is over and the insect is awake

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OfflineGinseng1
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Re: Living with philosophy [Re: Redrawing]
    #10033691 - 03/24/09 04:14 PM (15 years, 8 days ago)

Quote:

Redrawing said:
"Let us not pretend to doubt in philosophy what we do not doubt in our hearts."

--C.S. Peirce




:grin:

Icelander - cool post, but what exactly is this 'new age' stuff you used to believe in?


--------------------
Flowing through beginningless time since time without beginning...

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InvisibleRahz
Alive Again
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Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,302
Re: Living with philosophy [Re: Icelander]
    #10033861 - 03/24/09 04:38 PM (15 years, 8 days ago)

In my experience, New Age beliefs and philosophy = jack squat without meditation.

And to get the results I want, I need to be relentless, meditating every day.

Occasional meditation results in frustration, or results are found and I "let up". It's like "now that I'm awake I can dust my hands off and have a life." I've done that many times. Meditative states don't usually last more than a couple days without continued practice.

You've been through meditative states I know. The proof of it is in experience, not the beliefs.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"The object of opening the mind, as of opening the mouth, is to shut it again on something solid." - Gilbert Keith Chesterton

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Living with philosophy [Re: Ginseng1]
    #10033908 - 03/24/09 04:43 PM (15 years, 8 days ago)

Quote:

Ginseng1 said:
Quote:

Redrawing said:
"Let us not pretend to doubt in philosophy what we do not doubt in our hearts."

--C.S. Peirce




:grin:

Icelander - cool post, but what exactly is this 'new age' stuff you used to believe in?





It's quite a list, I grabbed on to each new thing I heard or read. But to sum up I believed that there was a guiding consciousness to the Universe that was guiding my personal spiritual evolution and that the human race was special and destined to reach a place of peace and unconditional love. I believed that the driving force of the Universe was love and my personal spirit would continue after death. :crazy2: Don't laugh, I know I know.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Living with philosophy [Re: Rahz]
    #10033930 - 03/24/09 04:46 PM (15 years, 8 days ago)

I really haven't been a consistent meditator. I do however have a daily practice that takes several hours and includes the Buddhist body scan and Qi Gong ball standing and Tai Chi.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibledeCypher
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Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
Re: Living with philosophy [Re: Icelander]
    #10034088 - 03/24/09 05:09 PM (15 years, 8 days ago)

Quote:

Icelander said: But to sum up I believed that there was a guiding consciousness to the Universe that was guiding my personal spiritual evolution and that the human race was special and destined to reach a place of peace and unconditional love. I believed that the driving force of the Universe was love and my personal spirit would continue after death.




If you don't mind my asking, what caused you to revoke these beliefs?


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Living with philosophy [Re: deCypher]
    #10034432 - 03/24/09 06:09 PM (15 years, 8 days ago)

Personal experience. Watching and interacting with others with those beliefs. Developing better critical thinking. Debate with Veritas pounded in the final nails. I couldn't really defend any of my beliefs against her logical questioning.

It was a shock to me how superstitious and illogical much of my thinking and beliefs were. I had considered myself quite logical and non superstitious. I know that's no where near the truth now. To my credit I abandoned many beliefs although it was extremely painful and still is. I don't really enjoy my current beliefs that much yet I cannot deny the logic behind them.

Letting go of lifetime patterns of belief was and is extremely traumatic for me. I have no love for what I have replaced them with. My addiction to security  and comfort wants to readopt many of them and yet I know it's too late for that.

It's most likely and old story. I'm not that unique except maybe in degree. Many people don't like the world we live in. I would prefer something quite different. I strive now just to accept things as I find them. In spite of what I might prefer. I try to make the best of it. I don't always succeed.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,441
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Re: Living with philosophy [Re: Icelander]
    #10034732 - 03/24/09 06:54 PM (15 years, 8 days ago)

Quote:

Many people don't like the world we live in. I would prefer something quite different.




I already told you to replace the green shag carpeting. :mad:


--------------------

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Invisiblespyder
Stranger

Registered: 03/16/09
Posts: 444
Re: Living with philosophy [Re: Icelander]
    #10034765 - 03/24/09 07:00 PM (15 years, 8 days ago)

Veritas brain washed you. I will send a de-programmer to your house ASAP.

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InvisibleIcelander
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Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Living with philosophy [Re: spyder]
    #10034771 - 03/24/09 07:01 PM (15 years, 8 days ago)

She certainly did get to me.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibledeCypher
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Posts: 56,232
Re: Living with philosophy [Re: Icelander]
    #10034779 - 03/24/09 07:02 PM (15 years, 8 days ago)

Sounds like she used the Devil's tools of fancy logic and intellectual conundrums to test your faith.  God is ever patient and will accept a relapsed sinner back into his arms anytime you wish.  :mushroom2:


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Living with philosophy [Re: deCypher]
    #10034800 - 03/24/09 07:04 PM (15 years, 8 days ago)

God has made it quite plain that he's not going to interact with me anymore. He's pretty pissed since I started posting here.:satansmoking:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinefazdazzle
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Registered: 02/17/05
Posts: 1,796
Last seen: 11 years, 2 months
Re: Living with philosophy [Re: Icelander]
    #10035113 - 03/24/09 07:50 PM (15 years, 8 days ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
I don't really enjoy my current beliefs that much yet I cannot deny the logic behind them.





This reminds me of in "I Robot" when the central computing system (VIKI)is killing all the people with robots because people are a danger to themselves and others of their kind. As the main character robot, Sunny, is in the final act of disabling VIKI she says "You cannot deny my logic," to which Sunny replies something along the lines of "I do, but it just lacks....heart."

Logic is fantastic, but it's not perfect. We're logically destroying the Earth for the happiness of currently living humans. Back when religion ruled, people logically killed other people based on their illogical beliefs. Logically we should just all die, then...maybe VIKI is on to something? After all, we're logically on that path, anyway.

While we're here...we pretty much all want to be secure and happy. It's well understood that this is a ubiquitous trait, but we still stifle other people's happiness - in some very great ways. Why not give other people the happiness that we want? Why not give future people's our opportunities? Do you think it was worthwhile for you to be alive? Why not give other people that same (or greater, since our understanding of our world is increasing) experience?

We could follow our logic and pollute, pee in the streets and live as extravagantly as possible under the assumption that our civilization will crumble eventually. or we could throw some heart into the mix and hope that everything will work out and future generations will flourish. We could follow our logic on ourselves till we're a sieve, or we could throw some heart into that mix and assume we deserve happiness and security as much as everyone else. Why not take this ride for what it's worth? If you have enjoyed anything in life, then it's possible to enjoy more.

Then again, ehh I dunno...it's a tough problem...I hope what I said made sense and helps ya out...

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Invisiblespyder
Stranger

Registered: 03/16/09
Posts: 444
Re: Living with philosophy [Re: Icelander]
    #10035209 - 03/24/09 08:04 PM (15 years, 8 days ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
I have no love for what I have replaced them with.




I won't endorse clinging to something you don't think is true anymore, but I don't think that this was a good thing for you. Were you happier then? It sounds like it.

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OfflineGinseng1
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Registered: 09/02/04
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Re: Living with philosophy [Re: Icelander]
    #10035236 - 03/24/09 08:09 PM (15 years, 8 days ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
But to sum up I believed that there was a guiding consciousness to the Universe that was guiding my personal spiritual evolution and that the human race was special and destined to reach a place of peace and unconditional love. I believed that the driving force of the Universe was love and my personal spirit would continue after death. :crazy2: Don't laugh, I know I know.




Wow.. that's interesting.  I have those current views though different in many respect.

I don't believe there is a guiding consciousness but our own.
I believe that I am the only one accountable of my own spiritual evolution, and that can only be through a choice.
I don't believe we are destined for anything, for the only destiny that exists is that which has already been realized... infinity.  We are destined for the 'now'.

I do believe in an sort of after-life, and I use my own 'crazy' logic for it.  That which is infinite (in time and existence), has already realized everything, including an infinite experience.  If infinite experience has already been realized, in an infinite place, then just  may be that:D.  From this trip to the next, in no particular order. 

Many-worlds, many-worlds.

Anyway,all you described surely cannot be described as new age thought if it has existed as long as recorded human history.


--------------------
Flowing through beginningless time since time without beginning...

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OfflineGinseng1
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Re: Living with philosophy [Re: Icelander]
    #10035255 - 03/24/09 08:12 PM (15 years, 8 days ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
But to sum up I believed that there was a guiding consciousness to the Universe that was guiding my personal spiritual evolution and that the human race was special and destined to reach a place of peace and unconditional love. I believed that the driving force of the Universe was love and my personal spirit would continue after death. :crazy2: Don't laugh, I know I know.




Wow.. that's interesting.  I have those current views though different in many respect.

I don't believe there is a guiding consciousness but our own.
I believe that I am the only one accountable of my own spiritual evolution, and that can only be through a choice.
I don't believe we are destined for anything, for the only destiny that exists is that which has already been realized... infinity.  We are destined for the 'now'.

I do believe in an sort of after-life, and I use my own 'crazy' logic for it.  That which is infinite (in time and existence), has already realized everything, including an infinite experience.  If infinite experience has already been realized, in an infinite place, then just  may be that. :cool:  From this trip to the next, in no particular order. 

Many-worlds, many-worlds.

Anyway,all you described surely cannot be described as new age thought if it has existed as long as recorded human history.


--------------------
Flowing through beginningless time since time without beginning...

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OfflineGinseng1
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Re: Living with philosophy [Re: Rahz]
    #10035282 - 03/24/09 08:16 PM (15 years, 8 days ago)

Quote:

The proof of it is in experience, not the beliefs.




This is why I am crazy.


--------------------
Flowing through beginningless time since time without beginning...

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Invisiblespyder
Stranger

Registered: 03/16/09
Posts: 444
Re: Living with philosophy [Re: Ginseng1]
    #10035350 - 03/24/09 08:25 PM (15 years, 8 days ago)

Quote:

Ginseng1 said:
Quote:

The proof of it is in experience, not the beliefs.




This is why I am crazy.




That is why I go with my experience and not any book.

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InvisibleIcelander
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Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
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Re: Living with philosophy [Re: fazdazzle]
    #10035516 - 03/24/09 08:49 PM (15 years, 8 days ago)

Quote:

fazdazzle said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
I don't really enjoy my current beliefs that much yet I cannot deny the logic behind them.





This reminds me of in "I Robot" when the central computing system (VIKI)is killing all the people with robots because people are a danger to themselves and others of their kind. As the main character robot, Sunny, is in the final act of disabling VIKI she says "You cannot deny my logic," to which Sunny replies something along the lines of "I do, but it just lacks....heart."

Logic is fantastic, but it's not perfect. We're logically destroying the Earth for the happiness of currently living humans. Back when religion ruled, people logically killed other people based on their illogical beliefs. Logically we should just all die, then...maybe VIKI is on to something? After all, we're logically on that path, anyway.

While we're here...we pretty much all want to be secure and happy. It's well understood that this is a ubiquitous trait, but we still stifle other people's happiness - in some very great ways. Why not give other people the happiness that we want? Why not give future people's our opportunities? Do you think it was worthwhile for you to be alive? Why not give other people that same (or greater, since our understanding of our world is increasing) experience?

We could follow our logic and pollute, pee in the streets and live as extravagantly as possible under the assumption that our civilization will crumble eventually. or we could throw some heart into the mix and hope that everything will work out and future generations will flourish. We could follow our logic on ourselves till we're a sieve, or we could throw some heart into that mix and assume we deserve happiness and security as much as everyone else. Why not take this ride for what it's worth? If you have enjoyed anything in life, then it's possible to enjoy more.

Then again, ehh I dunno...it's a tough problem...I hope what I said made sense and helps ya out...





Logic is perfect IMO. It's my application that needs work. I have and do enjoy things in this life still, otherwise I wouldn't be here. I just would prefer something else as I said.

Then again, ehh I dunno...it's a tough problem..

right.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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