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OfflinePDU
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When people HOPE that capitalism will fall: Unrealistic...
    #10022923 - 03/22/09 11:22 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

How do people have faith/hope that Capitalism will fall?

I have mixxed feelings, but am quick to admit that i value very much the freedoms i have as a Canadian. Not only do i value the social infrastructure (roads, schools, healthcare, social services, etc.) But i value immensely my freedom to do what i want, believe what i want, say what i want, the freedom to pursue wealth and happiness...

However, i do think capitalism is most often "bad/abused" and that capitalist globalism has gotten out of hand. The big corporations are mostly malevolent...

Having awareness of capitalist injustice, and living in a sustainable local-centric way with emphasis on community (!?) is about the only real alternative to being a shameless consumer or capitalist pawn (if you wanted to take it that far...) IMO.

It blows my mind when i meet people who even ponder the utopia when capitalism falls...

It wont happen - why fantasize?

Is it not better to focus your energies on bettering the circumstances in the current framework - No?

What do you all think? Have you ever met someone that was a hopeless "dreamer"

Am i missing something by being so realistic? Am i brainwashed?


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Offlinedancewithshiva
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Re: When people HOPE that capitalism will fall: Unrealistic... [Re: PDU]
    #10023164 - 03/23/09 12:10 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

one of my friends is squatting in some forest right now because he hates civilization. he traps and hunts all his food and dumpsters the rest. he's hard to talk to sometimes because he's such a hardcore idealist/dreamer.
it's not unrealistic to believe that industrial society as we know it has a huge potential to fall, given our crazy addiction to oil which allows us to severely overpopulate the earth. if shit hits the fan as hard as some of the crazies are predicting, capitalism as we know it will be decimated. it will probably go on in certain communities but the concept of money might not be the huge global thing that it is now anymore, because with the fall of industrial civilization comes the fall of indistrial agriculture, which allows us to live and flourish as we do presently. i don't really care to go anymore into my belief that globalization and capitalism will fall after peak oil cause it doesnt really matter anyway.
personally though, i live outside the system where i feel i can and accept some of the comforts civilization provides. my friend seems like a hopeless dreamer, but he's got his shit pretty much together and it's really cool to know a guy that has strong enough principles to try and live as far outside the system as he can.


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"for even as love crowns you so shall he crucify you" - kahlil gibran
"all this will end and begin again" - ween


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InvisibleJawofmalak
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Registered: 07/21/08
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Re: When people HOPE that capitalism will fall: Unrealistic... [Re: dancewithshiva]
    #10023212 - 03/23/09 12:22 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

We only have a cheap imitation of capitalism. Governments constantly pass legislation that benefit certain corporations over others, the exact opposite of capitalism. I think our central planning has failed, we never gave capitalism the chance.


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Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said


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OfflinetwigheadS
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Re: When people HOPE that capitalism will fall: Unrealistic... [Re: Jawofmalak]
    #10023268 - 03/23/09 12:40 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

pure capitalism could be even worse... Standard Oil would probably be more powerful than any entity in the entire world if it wasn't broken up by the government.


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Offlineunretarded
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Re: When people HOPE that capitalism will fall: Unrealistic... [Re: twighead]
    #10023317 - 03/23/09 12:54 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Its already failing......the last bit of money was spent and the rest is being stolen as we speak.


http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Investing/JubaksJournal/fluke-credit-crisis-was-a-heist.aspx


The looting of America is almost complete.


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I love our leaders and the feds ,they are great people and the laws they make help us!:rofl2:


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Offlinelearningtofly
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Re: When people HOPE that capitalism will fall: Unrealistic... [Re: unretarded]
    #10023325 - 03/23/09 12:56 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Unretarded, we aren't a capitalist nation so I dont see how it can be falling. America is a mixed economy.


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Offlineunretarded
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Re: When people HOPE that capitalism will fall: Unrealistic... [Re: learningtofly]
    #10023347 - 03/23/09 01:02 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Label it what you want ,but people are only in it for the money........or to capitolize.


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I love our leaders and the feds ,they are great people and the laws they make help us!:rofl2:


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InvisibleJawofmalak
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Re: When people HOPE that capitalism will fall: Unrealistic... [Re: unretarded]
    #10023484 - 03/23/09 01:30 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

No, the only reason companies can exert the kind of power they do is because of government subsidies and regulations that benefit corporations. in a free market system, companies have to depend on the consumer for their sustenance, not government handouts.


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Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said


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Offlinelearningtofly
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Re: When people HOPE that capitalism will fall: Unrealistic... [Re: unretarded]
    #10023561 - 03/23/09 01:49 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

unretarded said:
Label it what you want ,but people are only in it for the money........or to capitolize.




actually it makes  a big difference


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InvisibleBridgeburner
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Re: When people HOPE that capitalism will fall: Unrealistic... [Re: learningtofly]
    #10023894 - 03/23/09 02:56 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

money bad
nature good

:boxerface:


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InvisibleAlec_Baldwin
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Re: When people HOPE that capitalism will fall: Unrealistic... [Re: Bridgeburner]
    #10023911 - 03/23/09 03:00 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

That freedom to buy shit is pretty nice...


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Tune in, Freak out, Get Beaten.


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Invisibleflexintexan
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Re: When people HOPE that capitalism will fall: Unrealistic... [Re: Alec_Baldwin]
    #10029296 - 03/23/09 10:45 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

That is lame to hope any system fails if it has the potential to work. What matters is that people have their needs met. A system like capitalism sometimes has to change to avoid conversion to another system.

The world changes. A rigid ideology isn't the correct approach.


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OfflineBoneMan
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Re: When people HOPE that capitalism will fall: Unrealistic... [Re: PDU]
    #10029341 - 03/23/09 10:51 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

PDU said:
But i value immensely my freedom to do what i want, believe what i want, say what i want, the freedom to pursue wealth and happiness...





I don't think capitalism is the source of those freedoms. If this capitalist economic system fails and/or is replaced by something else (probably some sort of hybrid system), it doesn't mean that the liberties of the people will be taken away.


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OfflinePDU
travel kid vs.amerika
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Re: When people HOPE that capitalism will fall: Unrealistic... [Re: BoneMan]
    #10030673 - 03/24/09 02:37 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

OK Boneman - elaborate please, especially about possible alternatives or hybrid systems?

When i think of capitalism falling, i think of society dissolving into chaos and anarchy, i've hardly considered a world where globalization and corruption didn't run ammock. Is this possible? - Anyways i made this thread with a mentality of: free society = capitalism.

The more passive hopeful types say "the system cant go on like it is." which i agree with, but i don't see our social priorities or infrastructure changing all that much..

The more radical folks like DancewithShiva's friend often hope that society will collapse in on itself and the survivors will convert to a bargaining/community based system...

For the purposes of this thread, i was speaking about the people in the latter. However, i would like to hear others projections of the future particularly here in North America.

I would like to learn more about alternative economic and social systems and political systems - Can anyone suggest some reading? I am a total layman.


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Invisibleflexintexan
Future DO
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Registered: 03/29/08
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Re: When people HOPE that capitalism will fall: Unrealistic... [Re: BoneMan]
    #10034789 - 03/24/09 09:03 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

BoneMan said:
Quote:

PDU said:
But i value immensely my freedom to do what i want, believe what i want, say what i want, the freedom to pursue wealth and happiness...





I don't think capitalism is the source of those freedoms. If this capitalist economic system fails and/or is replaced by something else (probably some sort of hybrid system), it doesn't mean that the liberties of the people will be taken away.




What about the right to live in a mansion while not working and the right to hire goons to knock off any union activists that get in my way?


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InvisibleKnifey Mcstab
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Re: When people HOPE that capitalism will fall: Unrealistic... [Re: Bridgeburner]
    #10034899 - 03/24/09 09:19 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

I love money.

>_>


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Offlinelearningtofly
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Re: When people HOPE that capitalism will fall: Unrealistic... [Re: flexintexan]
    #10034918 - 03/24/09 09:21 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

SonicKuz said:
Quote:

BoneMan said:
Quote:

PDU said:
But i value immensely my freedom to do what i want, believe what i want, say what i want, the freedom to pursue wealth and happiness...





I don't think capitalism is the source of those freedoms. If this capitalist economic system fails and/or is replaced by something else (probably some sort of hybrid system), it doesn't mean that the liberties of the people will be taken away.




What about the right to live in a mansion while not working and the right to hire goons to knock off any union activists that get in my way?



What about it? Also hiring people to kill others is not a right granted in the Constitution


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InvisibleMisterMuscaria
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Re: When people HOPE that capitalism will fall: Unrealistic... [Re: learningtofly]
    #10034999 - 03/24/09 09:32 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Different strokes for different folks.

I know plenty of people who love capitalism, believe in it, are strong supporters and think of it as the most freedom condusive way for a society to be.

Personally, i think we could do away with it.

I accept it as a "necessary evil" but Ill never, no matter how much I integrate into it, grow to "love it".

I just want to make enough money to buy my land (and I dont need much) and start my commune.

I wont lie, I HOPE it falls. Im not going to get butthurt if it doesnt though. Either way, Ill cope. Some people are more comfortable with it, some are more without it.

If it falls It will devastate the people's lives who benefited from capitalism, but those whose lives have been devastated by capitalism itself will fluorish.


Edited by MisterMuscaria (03/24/09 09:35 PM)


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OfflinePDU
travel kid vs.amerika
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Re: When people HOPE that capitalism will fall: Unrealistic... [Re: MisterMuscaria]
    #10036169 - 03/25/09 12:44 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

So what are the alternatives?


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Offlinelearningtofly
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Re: When people HOPE that capitalism will fall: Unrealistic... [Re: PDU]
    #10036197 - 03/25/09 12:51 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

The alternatives to Capitalism? Either socialism or a mixed economy.


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