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OfflineBuggingOUT
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Registered: 03/20/09
Posts: 566
Last seen: 14 years, 11 months
Drug Innocence
    #10014641 - 03/21/09 03:19 PM (15 years, 11 days ago)

I remember reading something Bukowski said about how he couldn't smoke pot because the world had too many of its hooks in him.

Edited by BuggingOUT (03/22/09 01:35 PM)

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OfflineRedrawing
Psychonaut


Registered: 04/03/08
Posts: 526
Last seen: 13 years, 5 months
Re: Drug Innocence [Re: BuggingOUT]
    #10014660 - 03/21/09 03:22 PM (15 years, 11 days ago)

Would you go back to high school if you could?


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I'm an insect who dreamt he was a man and loved it, but now that dream is over and the insect is awake

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OfflineBuggingOUT
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Registered: 03/20/09
Posts: 566
Last seen: 14 years, 11 months
Re: Drug Innocence [Re: Redrawing]
    #10014685 - 03/21/09 03:25 PM (15 years, 11 days ago)

I probably would, but only if I knew all the things I do now. Or maybe that's my problem. I don't know. Why do you ask?


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Krishna said:
some fags melted down, other fags retaliated, i did my dishes.

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OfflineFruitboot
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Registered: 10/04/05
Posts: 417
Last seen: 12 years, 2 months
Re: Drug Innocence [Re: Redrawing]
    #10014696 - 03/21/09 03:26 PM (15 years, 11 days ago)

Yep, I feel the same way...hence why I don't trip anymore.  It just isn't fun or what it used to be.

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OfflineBuggingOUT
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Registered: 03/20/09
Posts: 566
Last seen: 14 years, 11 months
Re: Drug Innocence [Re: Fruitboot]
    #10014708 - 03/21/09 03:28 PM (15 years, 11 days ago)

So there's no hope, Fruit?


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Krishna said:
some fags melted down, other fags retaliated, i did my dishes.

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OfflineRedrawing
Psychonaut


Registered: 04/03/08
Posts: 526
Last seen: 13 years, 5 months
Re: Drug Innocence [Re: BuggingOUT]
    #10014742 - 03/21/09 03:34 PM (15 years, 11 days ago)

Drugs encompass all facets of experience, good and bad. You can't demand from them that they be 'just fun' or 'just' anything. If you're approaching psychedelics for just a good time, it's going to catch up to you and you'll realize psychedelics reveal to you that bad exists just as much as good, and that all you can do is embrace that which comes.

Don't wish the past back on yourself. You are where you are, and your naive conception of drugs is gone. If you want to remain ignorant and blissful, maybe you're just realizing it's too late and the mushroom has already done its work on you.


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I'm an insect who dreamt he was a man and loved it, but now that dream is over and the insect is awake

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OfflineBuggingOUT
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Registered: 03/20/09
Posts: 566
Last seen: 14 years, 11 months
Re: Drug Innocence [Re: Redrawing]
    #10014885 - 03/21/09 03:56 PM (15 years, 11 days ago)

...


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Krishna said:
some fags melted down, other fags retaliated, i did my dishes.

Edited by BuggingOUT (03/22/09 01:46 PM)

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Offlinebaeocystis
Stranger

Registered: 03/08/09
Posts: 59
Last seen: 14 years, 8 months
Re: Drug Innocence [Re: BuggingOUT]
    #10014949 - 03/21/09 04:06 PM (15 years, 11 days ago)

I wouldn't say you should go in with any expectations. But be aware and be prepared for anything. If you expect it to be great it's going to just bring longing for the experience again once it's passed.

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OfflineRedrawing
Psychonaut


Registered: 04/03/08
Posts: 526
Last seen: 13 years, 5 months
Re: Drug Innocence [Re: BuggingOUT]
    #10014981 - 03/21/09 04:12 PM (15 years, 11 days ago)

Quote:

BuggingOUT said:
Re, I fully appreciate what you're saying. I didn't really mean to come off like I've ever taking psychedelics lightly because I haven't. There's always been a certain gravity concerning their use. It seems like I've somehow cheapened the experience by shrugging it off as simply a chemical effecting my brain even as it's taking place. Why do you use mind expanding substances? Do you go into the experience with any expectations whatsoever?




I think it's almost impossible for a person with intentional mental states not to project some sort of expectation upon experience (that is, I think it is imbued into our very nature as rational creatures). However, when (and it is always "when," never "if") those expectations are inevitably subverted by the experience itself, I have learned to accept the subversion for what it is. Let experience mold your ideas, don't try to make your ideas mold the experience.

In other words, by trying to "go with the flow" in that certain way you are denying the reality of the situation in favor of an abstract ideal and therefore doing the very opposite of what you're trying to do in the first place.


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I'm an insect who dreamt he was a man and loved it, but now that dream is over and the insect is awake

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OfflineBuggingOUT
Stranger


Registered: 03/20/09
Posts: 566
Last seen: 14 years, 11 months
Re: Drug Innocence [Re: Redrawing]
    #10015023 - 03/21/09 04:18 PM (15 years, 11 days ago)

Now that's intriguing.


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Krishna said:
some fags melted down, other fags retaliated, i did my dishes.

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Offlinecrkhd
☾☼☽


Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 2,401
Loc: A human sphere enfolding ...
Last seen: 10 months, 5 days
Re: Drug Innocence [Re: Fruitboot]
    #10015094 - 03/21/09 04:30 PM (15 years, 11 days ago)

Quote:

Fruitboot said:
Yep, I feel the same way...hence why I don't trip anymore.  It just isn't fun or what it used to be.





Sounds like you're tripping too much/too regularly.

Everything in life eventually becomes boring, even drugs when overdone. Unlike other things in life however, drugs can affect your body in such a way that you can never get bored of them (at least in my experience). Just take a long break and reintroduce yourself to a heroic dose of your favourite trip of choice.


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"Everything there is, and all that there is, is a Pattern of unspeakable proportion. The Pattern contains everything that is, completely fixed in succession, all the minimal particles interconnected in every way that is. Every way that is is not every conceivable way, because not everything that can be conceived is manifest in the pattern."

"THE Human, you, is a miniscule but essential part of that pattern. In it lies complete fulfillment. It will never become something it is not, but it will never need to be anything else." - Wiccan_Seeker

"If boring drudgery was the way of the universe, everything would have killed itself long ago." - Spacerific

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OfflineFellowGrower
Fungal Freedom Fighter
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Registered: 05/25/07
Posts: 1,804
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Re: Drug Innocence [Re: crkhd]
    #10015513 - 03/21/09 05:29 PM (15 years, 11 days ago)

You have to get/stay sober for so long that you FORGET what being fuct dup is like...TOTALLY... When "Just Sober" is all you know, The contrast then becomes hella more enjoyable... :2cents:

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OfflineEnothe
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Registered: 11/11/07
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Re: Drug Innocence [Re: FellowGrower]
    #10016411 - 03/21/09 08:13 PM (15 years, 10 days ago)

i agree, take a break! give your brain some time to forget the feeling. then take a big dose and trip HARD!

or change the environment you trip in. go somewhere nostalgic, make it a whole new experience and respark that flame!


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"Never Knows Best"

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Offlineincubaby_421
half naked andfull witted
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Re: Drug Innocence [Re: Enothe]
    #10016951 - 03/21/09 10:04 PM (15 years, 10 days ago)

i call that carefree innocent inebriation a handful of vicodin and a bottle of patron...

i think the fact of the matter is there is no way to be back in the mindstate we were when we first tripped and therefore will never recapture that exact magical experience...
even if the only thing lacking was simply the aww and amazement of ones budding young self at 16 or 18... as an adult with real problems and possibly some youngns to take care of yourself, the worrying is so constant it doesnt even seem like worrying anymore, its just adult life, bills, babysitters, bosses, wives, houses, cars, blah blah blah, i believe that increased responsibility makes us incapable of totally letting ourselves go like we could then...

yeah ive def. had this thought a few times...

(cuase the tiiiiimes they are a chaaangin...)


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"yet the more i dig, the more i consume, the more i unfold... the less protected i feel.
i am the spit on the hair of the son of an electron, swimming around the nucleus of a cell inside the sperm of a killer bee, and my purpose is as nebulous as why weve been bestowed with the capacity to give a shit" Brandon Boyd


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Offlineincubaby_421
half naked andfull witted
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Re: Drug Innocence [Re: Redrawing]
    #10016973 - 03/21/09 10:08 PM (15 years, 10 days ago)

Quote:

Redrawing said:


I think it's almost impossible for a person with intentional mental states not to project some sort of expectation upon experience (that is, I think it is imbued into our very nature as rational creatures). However, when (and it is always "when," never "if") those expectations are inevitably subverted by the experience itself, I have learned to accept the subversion for what it is. Let experience mold your ideas, don't try to make your ideas mold the experience.

In other words, by trying to "go with the flow" in that certain way you are denying the reality of the situation in favor of an abstract ideal and therefore doing the very opposite of what you're trying to do in the first place.




sorry if this makes me a dick but i wanted to paraphrase...

dont do the acid... let the acid do you...
:drysmash:


--------------------
"yet the more i dig, the more i consume, the more i unfold... the less protected i feel.
i am the spit on the hair of the son of an electron, swimming around the nucleus of a cell inside the sperm of a killer bee, and my purpose is as nebulous as why weve been bestowed with the capacity to give a shit" Brandon Boyd


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OfflineTime Slave
Stranger

Registered: 11/10/08
Posts: 7
Last seen: 14 years, 1 month
Re: Drug Innocence [Re: BuggingOUT]
    #10017512 - 03/22/09 12:17 AM (15 years, 10 days ago)

Perhaps try lower doses?  I have had the the same experience where my trips seem to chronological.  They get deeper as I go and you possibly lose the "excitement" that comes along with laughing and giggling.  Maybe it's just me but I feel I went from having premature "fun" to deeper thought and meaning.

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OfflineNoteworthy
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Registered: 10/05/08
Posts: 5,599
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Re: Drug Innocence [Re: BuggingOUT]
    #10017832 - 03/22/09 01:39 AM (15 years, 10 days ago)

Quote:

BuggingOUT said:
I want to recapture my drug innocence. It's like I've lost the ability to enjoy the EXPERIENCE. I remember reading something Bukowski said about how he couldn't smoke pot because the world had too many of its hooks in him. Basically, I feel the same way. When I smoke pot or eat shrooms I'm always contrasting how I feel at that moment with how I feel in a sober state. Does anyone know what I'm trying to say? When I was younger I could just abandon myself to the sensations and impressions. I'd feel so good and free. Nowadays it's like there's this tension even when there doesn't really need to be. Generally, I'm not a stressed out person. I just miss being able to enjoy the high without all this deep shit and weight of the world thoughts flooding my head. I don't always want revelation, sometimes I just want to kick back and have a good time. Is there any way to get this carefree inebriation back?





I think you have formed a solid notion in your head about being 'high' and being 'sober'. You have associated the carefree feelings that you had on weed and shrooms to 'being high'. You then learned to enjoy 'being high' and now that 'being high' is not intrinsically rewarding, you feel disillusioned.

Here is what I suggest:

Start enjoying being alive

Then, 'being high' is just another time when you are alive.

And you will identify the experience by what it contains, rather than what you were intending to be doing at the time (taking and 'being' on a drug).

IT seems that your trips are containing more and more cynical/weighty thoughts. Well this is just like life really. As we get old, as things become familiar, we start looking for the problems, because, now that we have something familiar, we like to keep it around. Perhaps the carefree drug experiences you had were carefree not because the drug is meant to make the experience that way (which seems to be how you rationalised your taking of the drug), but simply because you were exposed to so many new things that your brain was distracted. Just like a child.

People often think children have nothing to worry about.. but I think children worry a lot.. they just dont dwell on worries long enough for them to be considered much of a 'worry' in the same way we would take seriously an adult's 'worry' which is likely to be an issue that they are carrying around with them until solved.

IF you want to get that childlike state of distraction, you might have to unfamiliarise yourself with your current drug habits, in order for the novelty of the drug experience to be strong enough that it directs your thought patterns. If it is not strong enough, your thought patterns will start to be directed according to its familiar notions / its model of the world, and thus you will be turned toward heavy issues that you might not want to think about.

So youve got two options of distraction: distract yourself with stimulation, or quell the unwanted thoughts in the first place.

I tell you what, if you smoke enough weed you will probably not have the worlds hefty issues knocking at your door.

But if you really want to 'clear your mind', the appropriate drugs are opiates and benzodiazepines.

And if you want to know what most other people do when they get to your situation... they decide that drugs are not for them, and go to the pub


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Offlinebadstart
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Registered: 01/22/09
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Re: Drug Innocence [Re: Noteworthy]
    #10018439 - 03/22/09 06:52 AM (15 years, 10 days ago)

Sorry but innocence is lost with experience.  The innocent don't know they're innocent.  And once you've lost it there's no re-aqquireing it.  IMHO

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OfflineNoteworthy
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Re: Drug Innocence [Re: badstart]
    #10018480 - 03/22/09 07:09 AM (15 years, 10 days ago)

Although that makes sense, I feel as though you are using the word 'innocent' in a romantic, vague manner, and you might better replace it with 'naive'. I think people can know that they are innocent. I seem to remember understanding what adults meant when they said children are innocent.. because even as a child you are losing your innocence and noticing how life is changing.

I think you can return to innocence in certain depths of trip, when you no longer have access to all the particular things that have occured in your life and that define who you are

I mean, there are some things that can never be taken back.. but that hasnt got to do with drugs, thats just life


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InvisibleMisterMuscaria
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Registered: 05/13/08
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Re: Drug Innocence [Re: Redrawing]
    #10018495 - 03/22/09 07:18 AM (15 years, 10 days ago)

Quote:

Redrawing said:
Would you go back to high school if you could?



Hell yeah! I actually have reoccuring dreams about this. I was really popular with the girls in highschool and now Im not so much.

And to the OP: It is all about pulling out societies hooks and takeing yourself out of the machine either for a night or for a lifetime. Why do you think hippies become hippies? Sure some of them are like that naturally and dont need psyches to do it, but most had the hooks in them that needed pulled out.
The psychedellics help you realize that your "life" may not be what it is suposed to be.

It's much harder for me to abandon the tension and everyday "adult" mentality but I try to do it when I trip. You almost have to go into the trip thinking you are a child and the mushrooms are the stern teacher.

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