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OfflineMycelio
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Parasol from spores
    #10003166 - 03/19/09 06:28 PM (15 years, 3 days ago)

Hello,


last autumn I received two spore prints of Macrolepiota procera and one of Chlorophyllum rhacodes. I made up spore syringes and inoculated small jars with sterilized straw and horse manure. Unfortunately the C. rhacodes spores didn't germinate and one of the M. procera prints was stuffed with spores of other species... Anyway, from the remaining M. procera print mycelium appeared after 10 to 14 days and I got a couple of cultures, which are doing fine. First the mycelium grows straight and cottony, later developing rhizomorphic structures, just like Agaricus bisporus. I only wonder, why it grows so slow and if my substrate formula is wrong. Besides straw/manure I already tried straw/manure/beech wood, straw/manure/conifer wood pellets and straw/worm castings/conifer pellets. I always get no more than two to three millimeters growth per day at room temperature, while I expected faster growth from this species.

Are there any parasol growers here, who like to share their experience?


Carsten


PS: Some Images


Three weeks after inoculation. Top left jar shows a contam.


Two weeks later, front and back side, closeup and rhizomorph.


A month ago, bored mycelium climbing up the glass walls.

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OfflineSuchSmartMonkeys
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Re: Parasol from spores [Re: Mycelio]
    #10005303 - 03/19/09 11:47 PM (15 years, 3 days ago)

sweet man, i fucking love parasol mushrooms.  Is C. rachodes same as Lepiota rachodes?  if so, that's one of my fav edibles, depending on what it's growing on... i've found this one to be very particular with the taste depending on what kind of stuff it's coming out of...


--------------------
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InvisibleSeroind
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Re: Parasol from spores [Re: SuchSmartMonkeys]
    #10005902 - 03/20/09 02:19 AM (15 years, 3 days ago)

Quote:

SuchSmartMonkeys said:
i've found this one to be very particular with the taste depending on what kind of stuff it's coming out of...




What substrates do you recommend?

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OfflineMycelio
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Re: Parasol from spores [Re: SuchSmartMonkeys]
    #10006262 - 03/20/09 06:38 AM (15 years, 2 days ago)

Quote:

Is C. rachodes same as Lepiota rachodes?  if so, that's one of my fav edibles, depending on what it's growing on... i've found this one to be very particular with the taste depending on what kind of stuff it's coming out of...


Yes, it has been renamed from Lepiota to Macrolepiota and then to Clorophyllum. And the greek term rhacodes (for shaggy) is often written as rachodes.

Please tell more about possible substrates.

Carsten

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OfflineSuchSmartMonkeys
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Re: Parasol from spores [Re: Mycelio]
    #10008899 - 03/20/09 04:07 PM (15 years, 2 days ago)

i know nothing about potential substrates for cultivation.  I have just noticed a great change in flavor from shaggy parasols growing out in the forest from good hummus as opposed to something like rotting food in a compost pile.  The former tasting amazing, and the latter being far from spectacular.  I don't know much about what substrate parasols might like for cultivation purposes.  Keep up the good work man, i am very interested in putting in some work on this process as well, i love shaggy parasols.... and i would love to cultivate them.

haha, and about the name change, too bad for that guy in "All the Rain Promises and More" who has the vanity plates on his car that say "Lepiota" because of his love for rhachodes...

edit: and why were they renamed "Chlorophyllum"?  In molybdites, i thought that reffered to the presence of green spores.  rhachodes has a nice white print, so where does the Chlorophyllum name come into play?  Or is it just the way with a lot of mushrooms where it's name doesn't quite fit the description of the mushroom because it was bunched in with another group because of close enough genetics?


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Edited by SuchSmartMonkeys (03/20/09 04:14 PM)

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OfflineMycelio
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Re: Parasol from spores [Re: SuchSmartMonkeys]
    #10009479 - 03/20/09 06:03 PM (15 years, 2 days ago)

I meant to ask for the substrates you find them on. So the tastier ones grow on humus, leaf or needle litter, branches and whatever lies around in the forest. This should have less nitrogen as the substrates I tested and also I wouldn't have to add gypsum.

For the change to Chlorophyllum, the reason was a DNA comparison, see
http://www.mushroomexpert.com/chlorophyllum_rhacodes.html

Carsten

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InvisibleSeroind
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Re: Parasol from spores [Re: Mycelio]
    #10012214 - 03/21/09 05:13 AM (15 years, 1 day ago)

Why would you not add gypsum?

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Invisiblearmedia
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Re: Parasol from spores [Re: Seroind]
    #10012452 - 03/21/09 07:55 AM (15 years, 1 day ago)

I have a M. procera clone I cultured from a collection I made here in MA last fall. I haven't done anything with it yet, because my wife got really sick from the meal I made of them, and I'm pretty sure she now won't have anything to do with the species anymore. And no, it was not C. molybdites, the spores were definitely white.

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OfflineMycelio
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Re: Parasol from spores [Re: Seroind]
    #10012644 - 03/21/09 08:57 AM (15 years, 1 day ago)

Quote:

Seroind said:
Why would you not add gypsum?


Because of the PH. Leaf compost should be slightly acidic like PH 6, while needle litter can go down to PH 3. If the mycelium thrives in acidic substrates, I think I don't need gypsum, which would keep the PH around 7.

Carsten

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OfflineMycelio
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Re: Parasol from spores [Re: armedia]
    #10012679 - 03/21/09 09:09 AM (15 years, 1 day ago)

Quote:

armedia said:
I have a M. procera clone I cultured from a collection I made here in MA last fall. I haven't done anything with it yet, because my wife got really sick from the meal I made of them, and I'm pretty sure she now won't have anything to do with the species anymore. And no, it was not C. molybdites, the spores were definitely white.


I read that Parasols must be thoroughly cooked to avoid gastrointestinal problems, but even then some people react allergic. Too bad your wife got sick, but the culture should still be good for trading.

Carsten

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Offlinefalcon
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Re: Parasol from spores [Re: Mycelio]
    #10014586 - 03/21/09 03:07 PM (15 years, 1 day ago)

I've seen shaggies a couple of times growing on a mix of leaves, mostly oak,
and grass clippings.
The most common place I find it is pine needles, but sometimes it will
fruit in wood chips that are spread around either spruce or pine trees
for landscaping. I'm pretty sure it is eating the broken down chips, not the fresh ones.
In the spring I find it in places that look fairly barren, not much organic stuff in the soil.

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OfflineMycelio
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Re: Parasol from spores [Re: falcon]
    #10014906 - 03/21/09 03:59 PM (15 years, 1 day ago)

Its good you mention grass clippings. As these are high on nitrogen, I assume parasols are not too picky about n-content. The broken down wood vs. fresh wood is worth a try. Hey shiitake block, your end is near... :laugh:

Carsten

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InvisibleJef
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Re: Parasol from spores [Re: Mycelio]
    #10015002 - 03/21/09 04:15 PM (15 years, 1 day ago)

Armedia If you didn't get sick too it was not molybdites.  It seems not to be optional.

Hi Carsten, I find rhacodes only where the ground is covered by leaves, and I agree, it is not eating the fresh ones.  The really good specimens, big with body and flavour grow in the flower bed of a local park where they spread 3 to four inches of shredded leaves each fall as much before our very wet winter.  The underlying soil is very rich black with good tilth and lots of microbial life.

From the one patch, I got perhaps forty pounds, fresh weight last summer.  They dry execellently and I pulverize the woody stems for stock. This is my favourite edible by far.

It is my guess that this species, and also blewits does poorly with plant sources of protein, and needs to eat microbes and nematodes to get it's nitrogen.  I have tried these on plant supplemented agars, and they didn't like it.

In a sterilized substrate,and perhaps sawdust supplemented with egg or tuna, I suspect rhacodes would do better. This will be really dis=gusting if it contams, but I will try this in a few months when I have better access to necessary facilities.

I will also have some outdoor space then to start an outdoor grow.


--------------------
I am my own lab rat.


Tell me and I will forget. Show me and I will remember.  Involve me and I will learn.

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OfflineMycelio
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Re: Parasol from spores [Re: Jef]
    #10016122 - 03/21/09 07:23 PM (15 years, 1 day ago)

Hi Jef,

thanks for the detailed description of the shaggy parasols habitat! Picking fourty pounds must be big fun. :smile:

Quote:

It is my guess that this species, and also blewits does poorly with plant sources of protein, and needs to eat microbes and nematodes to get it's nitrogen.  I have tried these on plant supplemented agars, and they didn't like it.


Yes, the same applies to Agaricus, where you add nitrogen sources to straw and let the microbes multiply and partially digest the straw. Today a professional grower also told me Lepista nuda won't grow good on sterile grains, but do fine on untreated wood chips. Probably because of microbes too.

Quote:

In a sterilized substrate,and perhaps sawdust supplemented with egg or tuna, I suspect rhacodes would do better. This will be really dis=gusting if it contams, but I will try this in a few months when I have better access to necessary facilities.


Hm, my current idea is to mix sawdust with hay and a little grain or bran to put it in my worm bin for a month. I might dry it then or use it untreated.

Carsten

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OfflineMycelio
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Re: Parasol from spores [Re: Mycelio]
    #10394786 - 05/25/09 06:10 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Just an update regarding substrates for Parasols:

A mixture of straw and small wood chips with 10 to 20% worm castings and ca. 10% rye grass seeds works OK. Tried chips from beech and spruce without noticing a difference, also after composting the mixture for some weeks in the worm bin. Only the addition of olive oil (2 to 3 teaspoons per liter) and yeast extract (1 tsp/l) resulted in faster and stronger growth, but favors bacterial contams.

Carsten

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OfflineHiven
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Re: Parasol from spores [Re: Mycelio]
    #15638858 - 01/09/12 07:24 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Hello Mycelio, how is your Macrolepiota procera doing, give some up date please ?

I germinated some Macrolepiota procera spores, they grow, but rather slow. I use mix of hummus, perlit, beech wood chips(from hedge trimming), straw and (dried)cow manure as subtrate. they germinated in within 2 weeks but grow very slow :confused:...
Thanks in advance,Hiven.

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Invisiblesparkle
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Re: Parasol from spores [Re: Hiven]
    #15694186 - 01/20/12 05:34 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

I too am interested!

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OfflineMycelio
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Re: Parasol from spores [Re: sparkle]
    #15698551 - 01/21/12 05:46 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Hi Guys, in short: I messed it up in 2009. All my experimental substrates had been way too wet back then, so some of the M. procera cultures contaminated. Survivors were cased or buried in soil, but sooner or later all of them died.
Last year I found a pair of Parasol mushrooms, growing at the edge of a forest clearing from a shallow layer of leaves (beech) on sand after some heavy summer rainfalls. The surrounding plants (nettles) indicated higher nitrogen levels, so animal urine may have been involved too.
Of course I cloned them to continue experimenting and found the mycelium does much better, if the substrate is on the dry side. Supplemented subs like for oysters or shiitake work fine and the growth is actually not that slow. The lag period after breaking up spawn or substrate and inoculating something is really short. Usually you see new hyphae growing after 12hrs or less.
What leads to the formation of primordia is still a mystery to me. So far I only did one test bag with a casing layer of untreated spent plant soil. The soil got colonized quickly and incredibly dense as if it was substrate. Then the mycelium died back and I noticed large amounts of springtails and nematodes in there...
Currently, I wonder if a casing layer is necessary at all. Perhaps some stuff suppresses fruiting until it gets washed away by rain.

Regarding C. rhacodes, I found cloning is easy, while finding a suitable substrate is not. This species seems to depend on microbes or something. On sterile subs I only get a few millimeters per week or month. Maybe it would get better with added glucose, peptone, yeast extract and thiamine, who knows?

Carsten

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Invisiblesparkle
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Re: Parasol from spores [Re: Mycelio]
    #15698743 - 01/21/12 06:32 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Thanks for responding mycello. I found a bunch of them in a 10 cubic meter pile of rice hull with grains. When I looked underneath, the entire pile is white with mycelia. The pile is where they blow away the weed seeds, half filled grains and chaff to purify rice seeds.(maybe 20% grain). The bottom would have been a year and a half ago and every couple of months they add some more on top. The temps are about 22-28C. Lots of sun, half hour of light rain every 5 days or so. The pile is at the end of a huge solar dryer so humidity is less than 60%. I hope that is helpful to your study.
For me, the pile is drying up. I'm thinking of bagging the entire thing and moving it to the shade where I can water it once in a while. all the caps have dried out or standing still. I cannot believe they can stand 11 hours of full hot sun, maybe that's a clue too.

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OfflineMycelio
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Re: Parasol from spores [Re: sparkle]
    #15700648 - 01/22/12 04:36 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Thanks for sharing your observations sparkle! The preference for sunny spots is something I also noticed.
Good luck with transplanting that pile. Perhaps you only need the top 20cm. There may not be much living mycelium underneath.

Carsten

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