Home | Community | Message Board

MushroomCube.com
This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: Original Sensible Seeds Autoflowering Cannabis Seeds   Mushroom-Hut Grow Bags   Left Coast Kratom Buy Kratom Extract   Bridgetown Botanicals CBD Concentrates   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder   North Spore Bulk Substrate   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

Jump to first unread post Pages: 1 | 2 | Next >  [ show all ]
Some of these posts are very old and might contain outdated information. You may wish to search for newer posts instead.
OfflineMycelio
Stranger
Male

Registered: 06/24/08
Posts: 1,636
Loc: Berlin Flag
Last seen: 3 months, 21 days
Trusted Cultivator
Agaricus bisporus on non composted substrate * 2
    #10002498 - 03/19/09 04:39 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Hello,


just got asked to describe my way of growing A. bisporus without composting large amounts of manure, so here it is. It is simple and works quite well, though the yield is lower than on professional mushroom compost.

The Substrate:
I use a mixture of equal amounts of straw and horse manure pellets. Who can't get hold of horse manure, should replace it by cow manure, worm castings or garden compost. As preparation, I fill the dried manure in a pot, add water until it is slightly covered, let it soak and cook it with low heat for a few minutes. Attention, it foams and boils over, so you better stay with it, than cleaning the stove from manure slurry! Then I add the straw pellets and mix. If the water content isn't correct, I add more pellets or a small amount of water. Then I close the lid, cover with a towel and let it cool slowly. Afterwards I mix in some gypsum or lime (ground egg shells).

The source material:
To get started, I filled some tiny jars with substrate and sterilized them. Adding soaked grain is an option, but raises th possibility of contams. For inoculation I used mycelium on agar as well as pieces of gill tissue from supermarket mushrooms. Of course the gill tissue died, but stayed alive for long enough to cause spore germination after ten days. Spores alone would have slept for a month. After full colonization, I let the jars sit around for a few weeks.

Multiplying Spawn:
Ca. every three weeks, I break up the colonized substrate carefully with a teaspoon, fill it into bigger jars and mix in an equal amount of freshly cooked substrate. By breaking into small pieces and mixing well, there are many many inoculation points and the mycelium only has to grow a few millimeters to colonize its new food. This gets repeated until I have enough substrate. In the final step I fill it into a clean flower pot and keep it under high humidity, like in a plastic box, where I spray water at the side walls and under the lid. I do all the mixing open air on the kitchen table and didn't have contams so far.

Casing:
Another two or three weeks later I mix peat with some gypsum and ground egg shells, moisten it and cover the substrate in the flower pot with a few centimeters (ca. one inch). Sometimes I cover with used potting soil or I drop some rye grass seeds on top. I have never heated or applied chemicals to those materials. After a few days the mycelium races through the casing layer. As soon as the mycelium appears at the surface I move the pot into a small greenhouse with low humidity (no misting, no ultrasonic humidifier) and more fresh air. Some days later primordia formation starts and within one or two weeks mushrooms develop.
Addition: In between I tried casing with garden soil and ran into problems with mites, worms and mold. Here I recommend pasteurization.

Caveats:
Substrate and casing layer should be moist, but not wet. If there is water logging in all the pores, it blocks the mycelium from growth and from breathing. When the casing layer dries out, just spray a little water, but don't spray on the developing mushrooms to avoid problems with bacteria, which cause brown spots and rotting.


After two flushes the substrate seems to be worn out. Then it's time to bury it in the garden or flower pot. Sometimes the mycelium survives and keeps on fruiting.


A few images, first the brown strain from agar:

mycelium on agar and spawn jars


mixed substrate after six days and primordia.


harvest

Then the white strain from supermarket spores:

spawn, mixed substrate and harvest


in a flower pot


Carsten


Edited by Mycelio (10/10/09 03:13 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinefalcon
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/01/02
Posts: 8,005
Last seen: 5 hours, 44 minutes
Trusted Cultivator
Re: Agaricus bisporus on non composted substrate [Re: Mycelio]
    #10002731 - 03/19/09 05:24 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Very cool!


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineArkady
Stranger

Registered: 02/20/09
Posts: 330
Last seen: 13 years, 6 months
Re: Agaricus bisporus on non composted substrate [Re: falcon]
    #10005635 - 03/20/09 01:03 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

How did they taste?


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineMycelio
Stranger
Male

Registered: 06/24/08
Posts: 1,636
Loc: Berlin Flag
Last seen: 3 months, 21 days
Trusted Cultivator
Re: Agaricus bisporus on non composted substrate [Re: falcon]
    #10006243 - 03/20/09 06:21 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Thanks, though the yield isn't overwhelming. Must be because the straw is not partially digested by microbes... I'll try cold composting of that mixture in the worm bin now.

Carsten


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineMycelio
Stranger
Male

Registered: 06/24/08
Posts: 1,636
Loc: Berlin Flag
Last seen: 3 months, 21 days
Trusted Cultivator
Re: Agaricus bisporus on non composted substrate [Re: Arkady]
    #10006247 - 03/20/09 06:23 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

They were delicious, tasted stronger than storebought ones.

Carsten


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleBlutjager
Inhuman
Male

Registered: 06/11/06
Posts: 9,220
Re: Agaricus bisporus on non composted substrate [Re: Mycelio]
    #10006523 - 03/20/09 08:20 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Who sells a culture to grow these,I admit I have not looked because I'm sure at this point I would screw it up anyway but am just throwing it out in case some one has a book mark handy that I can put away for future reading.I really like the looks of this grow.That 1st pic in the third row is beautiful


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineParesthesia
Stranger
Male


Registered: 07/02/08
Posts: 1,090
Loc: Texas
Last seen: 5 years, 9 days
Re: Agaricus bisporus on non composted substrate [Re: Blutjager]
    #10007084 - 03/20/09 10:50 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Sporeworks sells an Agaricus bitorquis culture, and I've gotten  Agaricus subrufescens grain spawn from a company up in Wisconsin.  Also, wild Agaricus campestris mushrooms are pretty easy to find, but they tend to have a short shelf life.  You also need to catch them just as they're coming up, because insects start laying eggs in them while they're still buttons.


--------------------
"We shall not cease from exploration, and the end of all our exploring will be to arrive where we started and know the place for the first time."

- T. S. Eliot


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinesolumvita
Q.B.E.
Male User Gallery

Registered: 02/12/08
Posts: 2,061
Loc: South Africa
Last seen: 7 months, 18 days
Trusted Cultivator
Re: Agaricus bisporus on non composted substrate [Re: Paresthesia]
    #10007811 - 03/20/09 01:07 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Good grow, thanks for the pics


--------------------
One of these days all the answers will be revealed until then we learn from each other!

www.mushrush.co.za


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineSuchSmartMonkeys
mycologically driven individual
Male User Gallery


Registered: 10/26/05
Posts: 1,154
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
Re: Agaricus bisporus on non composted substrate [Re: solumvita]
    #10009004 - 03/20/09 04:26 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

why does no one cultivate Agaricus augustus?  If this were possible, i would be all over that shit...  Probably the best mushroom i've ever tasted...


--------------------
[url=http:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinefalcon
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/01/02
Posts: 8,005
Last seen: 5 hours, 44 minutes
Trusted Cultivator
Re: Agaricus bisporus on non composted substrate [Re: SuchSmartMonkeys]
    #10009172 - 03/20/09 05:01 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Agaricus blazei and A. subrufescens both taste like A. augustus.
Both species' culture are for sale. The growth parameters are
very close to A. bisporus, but the yeilds aren't as good.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinesolumvita
Q.B.E.
Male User Gallery

Registered: 02/12/08
Posts: 2,061
Loc: South Africa
Last seen: 7 months, 18 days
Trusted Cultivator
Re: Agaricus bisporus on non composted substrate [Re: SuchSmartMonkeys]
    #10011506 - 03/21/09 12:28 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

No one has tried hard enough?

Maybe you should try and see,  most likely you would have to generate your own cultures etc


--------------------
One of these days all the answers will be revealed until then we learn from each other!

www.mushrush.co.za


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineParesthesia
Stranger
Male


Registered: 07/02/08
Posts: 1,090
Loc: Texas
Last seen: 5 years, 9 days
Re: Agaricus bisporus on non composted substrate [Re: solumvita]
    #10012430 - 03/21/09 07:44 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

There are a few threads here on A. augustus.  One from 2001 mentions that they require disturbed habitats to stimulate fruiting.  I've never seen or eaten one, so I have no idea.  Fungi Perfecti sells a culture.  ($125!)

I just checked my A. subrufescens spawn, and it looks like it has trich growing on it!  I don't know, though.  Doesn't agaricus mycelium look like mold?


--------------------
"We shall not cease from exploration, and the end of all our exploring will be to arrive where we started and know the place for the first time."

- T. S. Eliot


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineMycelio
Stranger
Male

Registered: 06/24/08
Posts: 1,636
Loc: Berlin Flag
Last seen: 3 months, 21 days
Trusted Cultivator
Re: Agaricus bisporus on non composted substrate [Re: Paresthesia]
    #10012597 - 03/21/09 08:45 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

I wouldn't say Agaricus mycelium looks like mold, but that depends on the type of mold you have in mind.

Trichoderma can be a problem, if your culture is not healthy and strong, especially on experimental substrate formulas. See here for some background information on the interaction of trich and agaricus and for nice microscope images:
http://www.ijat-rmutto.com/pdf/JUl_V2_06/3_mohammadi.pdf

Carsten


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinerhong
Green mold
Registered: 10/25/13
Posts: 14
Last seen: 9 months, 16 days
Re: Agaricus bisporus on non composted substrate [Re: Mycelio]
    #21136874 - 01/18/15 06:08 AM (9 years, 12 days ago)

Mycelio,

I read your old post regarding growing Agaricus bisporus on non composted horse manure. I think (I may be wrong) that when you kept multiplying (doubled them) your substrate every 2-3 weeks for about 3-4 times, you were actually, partially composting the manure; or you involuntarily composting them. I would be interesting if you a large amount of non composted substrate (horse manure-straw) and inoculate your spawn once and for all, and to see if Agaricus b. will grow. Thanks.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleZen Peddler
Male User Gallery


Registered: 06/18/01
Posts: 6,379
Loc: orbit
Re: Agaricus bisporus on non composted substrate [Re: rhong]
    #21142511 - 01/19/15 02:59 AM (9 years, 11 days ago)

Here is agaricus on agar:



aftger a few transfers it grows this rhizos like in the second right from the top:



--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineConsiderThis
Stranger
 User Gallery

Registered: 07/24/05
Posts: 51
Loc: New Mexico
Last seen: 8 years, 11 months
Re: Agaricus bisporus on non composted substrate [Re: Mycelio]
    #21258532 - 02/11/15 01:12 PM (8 years, 11 months ago)

That is so GREAT to know. I bought a button mushroom kit. I didn't harvest them at button size, so before I knew it they were the size of the Agaricus Bitorquis that come up in my garden. And, very much better tasting that store bought button mushrooms.

Today when I cut one to use for lunch, I decided to tap the cap and see if releasing spores onto the substrate in the kit would eventually produce more mushrooms.

I googled to see what my chances are, and found your Wonderful description. Thank you.

I am Grateful to Shroomery for helping me identify the Agaricus Bitorquis in my garden, many years ago. :-)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinehamloaf
Loaf of Fam.
Male User Gallery
Registered: 12/23/09
Posts: 20,192
Loc: Oklahoma. Flag
Last seen: 1 year, 8 months
Trusted Cultivator
Re: Agaricus bisporus on non composted substrate [Re: Mycelio]
    #23299635 - 06/02/16 11:42 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

exactly what I was looking for.  Thank you.


--------------------

   
How I Get Stuff done. - My Reference Guide. - My Grows.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineSpinScratch
Distrusted Cultivator
Male


Registered: 07/26/13
Posts: 826
Last seen: 28 days, 21 hours
Re: Agaricus bisporus on non composted substrate [Re: hamloaf]
    #23305216 - 06/03/16 09:43 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

hamloaf said:
exactly what I was looking for.  Thank you.



I know this is a 7 year old thread, but since u resurrected it...

Ive been searching high and low trying to find out how to grow these mushrooms on a small scale. There isnt much info out there. So if you are giving it a go, please post your experience, as will I. Also if you come across anything else worth reading, please let me know!


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineTravelAgency
The ongoing "wow"


Registered: 12/25/10
Posts: 4,431
Last seen: 11 months, 21 days
Re: Agaricus bisporus on non composted substrate [Re: SpinScratch]
    #23308335 - 06/04/16 08:09 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

I agree, and I'm wondering if some of these methods are outdated at this point. I trust you hamloaf so any info on this is greatly appreciated. I have a wild Agaricus sp. clone just waiting to be cultivated.


--------------------





Indoor Greenhouse Build 
          Mid Size Mushroom Farm


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinehamloaf
Loaf of Fam.
Male User Gallery
Registered: 12/23/09
Posts: 20,192
Loc: Oklahoma. Flag
Last seen: 1 year, 8 months
Trusted Cultivator
Re: Agaricus bisporus on non composted substrate [Re: TravelAgency]
    #23315342 - 06/06/16 06:48 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

The only information I have found regarding the growth of this species is by Mycelio and the 1982 Mushroom Cultivator by Paul Stamets. 

As far as I can tell you will need to get specific strains used to any said substrate in order for them to fruit prolifically.  This culture also takes a long time to colonize grains via the wedge and transfer method, so LC, and straw and/or manure should be considered to be put into the grain spawn in order for the culture to not complete the colonizing of the sterile grains (which could take a few months). 

Furthermore, as far as I understand, Fungi Perfecti MAY have specific strains already used to specific substrates for a way heftier price then what you would pay for an LC at Sporeworks.  You will want to research that one for yourself and let me know what you find over that issue.  I plan on kicking off my bitquiok culture over the next few weeks.  First I gotta spawn these Lions Mane grain masters to supplemented sawdust, as well as, complete various other non topic cultivation related tasks.  Wink-wink.  Nudge-nudge.


--------------------

   
How I Get Stuff done. - My Reference Guide. - My Grows.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: 1 | 2 | Next >  [ show all ]

Shop: Original Sensible Seeds Autoflowering Cannabis Seeds   Mushroom-Hut Grow Bags   Left Coast Kratom Buy Kratom Extract   Bridgetown Botanicals CBD Concentrates   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder   North Spore Bulk Substrate   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* edible shrooms - friendly substrate? (anno?) felixhigh 2,797 6 11/28/01 02:29 AM
by Elektrolurch
* Create your own mushroom compost! sakura 3,079 7 07/23/16 06:52 PM
by anthiawe
* Agaricus subrufescens almond mushroom on sawdust/woodchips kerala 3,694 6 04/04/22 09:12 AM
by Mr.GameAndWatch
* Agaricus subrufescens r05c03 1,782 1 09/19/03 09:48 PM
by falcon
* Agaricus subrufescens atop ahi tuna Seekingtruth 1,347 9 05/02/12 10:08 AM
by Seekingtruth
* Pasteurizing or composted straw? blackmold 1,334 5 07/19/04 07:45 AM
by blackmold
* Experiment using the kare kono and bulk substrate techs. shroomtoad 2,349 3 07/25/10 01:26 PM
by punkin
* Spent Mushroom Substrate mattymonkey 3,414 5 07/08/05 09:30 AM
by LouiseLouise

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: RogerRabbit, Pastywhyte, Forrester, Stromrider, SHROOMSISAY01
26,328 topic views. 2 members, 8 guests and 4 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2024 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.029 seconds spending 0.008 seconds on 14 queries.