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InvisibleLuddite
I watch Fox News
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Registered: 03/23/06
Posts: 2,946
Why The Founding Fathers Would Want Obama's Plans to Fail
    #9946604 - 03/10/09 03:48 PM (15 years, 12 days ago)

According to this article the founding fathers set up the government to help protect us from Obama's chains.


Why The Founding Fathers Would Want Obama's Plans to Fail

By Byron York
Chief Political Correspondent 3/10/09
James Madison was not specifically contemplating Barack Obama, or Nancy Pelosi, when he wrote Federalist No. 63. But reading the document — one of the seminal arguments in favor of adopting the U.S. Constitution — it’s clear Madison knew their type. And he knew they would come along again and again in American history, if Americans were lucky enough to have a long history.

Obama and Pelosi, along with their most ardent supporters, are the types to see a crisis, like our current economic mess, as a “great opportunity,” as the president put it last Saturday. They are the types, after a long period out of power, to attempt to use that “great opportunity” to push through far-reaching changes in national policy that had only a tangential connection, if at all, to the crisis at hand. And they are the types the Founding Fathers wanted to stop.

In the Federalist Papers, written 221 years ago, Madison addressed the need for a Senate to accompany the more populist House of Representatives. An upper body, he wrote, “may be sometimes necessary as a defense to the people against their own temporary errors and delusions.”

For the times when a political leader would attempt to capitalize on those errors and delusions, the Founders prescribed the Senate, with its members elected to terms three times the length of those in the House, originally chosen not by the people but by the state legislatures. From Federalist 63:

“There are particular moments in public affairs when the people, stimulated by some irregular passion, or some illicit advantage, or misled by the artful misrepresentations of interested men, may call for measures which they themselves will afterwards be the most ready to lament and condemn. In these critical moments, how salutary will be the interference of some temperate and respectable body of citizens, in order to check the misguided career, and to suspend the blow meditated by the people against themselves, until reason, justice, and truth can regain their authority over the public mind?”

Now is the time for the salutary interference of temperate and respectable citizens, otherwise known as the 41 Republicans in the United States Senate. It is their job to help the president in areas where there is widespread agreement that he should be helped, and hold the line on everything else.

Of course the economy is in crisis. But if Obama had his way, everything would be treated as if it were a crisis. Health care is a crisis. The environment is a crisis. Education is a crisis. In truth, those other areas are not crises, and the Senate’s job is to delay action on them until Obama’s power to stir popular passions fades. Then, whatever legislation is truly needed on health care, etc., can be undertaken in a more reasoned and measured way.

Five years ago, in the 2004 presidential race, Democratic pollster Stan Greenberg did some research on behalf of candidate John Kerry. Greenberg wanted Kerry to be more bold in advocating wholesale change, so he convened a series of focus groups to test the public’s reaction to a number of aggressive policy proposals.

Greenberg found that voters would accept boldness on an issue or two, provided they were really important. But when a candidate promised bold action across the board, the people balked. “While voters are clearly open to bold initiatives to major problems, they may be less attracted to the candidate who wants to act boldly in every area, without exception,” Greenberg concluded. “All together, that may have suggested an expanding scope for government beyond what people felt they could trust.”

In our current situation, the people elected Barack Obama and large Democratic majorities in Congress. They didn’t elect them to do nothing. When action is needed to deal with the economic crisis — it would be nice to have a financial stabilization plan, Mr. President — they will support it.

But they didn’t elect Obama to change everything, either. With Pelosi eager to go along with the president’s every wish, it’s up to temperate and respectable citizens to distinguish the crisis from the non-crisis, and act accordingly.

In other words, it’s up to the Senate to slow things down. Just like Madison planned.

http://www.dcexaminer.com/politics/Why-The-Founding-Fathers-Would-Want-Obamas-Plans-to-Fail-40992107.html

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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Why The Founding Fathers Would Want Obama's Plans to Fail [Re: Luddite]
    #9946708 - 03/10/09 04:06 PM (15 years, 12 days ago)

Are your ratings going down. I thought they were higher last time I looked?


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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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OfflineTGRR
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Registered: 05/22/07
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Re: Why The Founding Fathers Would Want Obama's Plans to Fail [Re: Icelander]
    #9947604 - 03/10/09 06:53 PM (15 years, 12 days ago)

Last I checked, Madison and Jefferson talked for a while and jammed the general welfare clause into article I, which pretty much allows the congress to spend as it sees fit...including what Obama is proposing now.

So I'm fairly certain that the author of that article doesn't speak for them.


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What can we do to help you stop screaming?

Official Mr Shoebat lackey.

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OfflineScavengerType
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Registered: 01/24/08
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Re: Why The Founding Fathers Would Want Obama's Plans to Fail [Re: TGRR]
    #9947664 - 03/10/09 07:06 PM (15 years, 12 days ago)

don't waste your time with Luddite I'm not sure if he's serious in his beliefs, trying to sound extreme to troll bate or actually being satirical of conservative beliefs. I think it's a little of all 3.


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"Have you ever seen what happens when a grenade goes off in a school? Do you really know what you’re doing when you order shock and awe? Are you prepared to kneel beside a dying soldier and tell him why he went to Iraq, or why he went to any war?"
"The things that are done in the name of the shareholder are, to me, as terrifying as the things that are done—dare I say it—in the name of God. Montesquieu said, "There have never been so many civil wars as in the Kingdom of God." And I begin to feel that’s true. The shareholder is the excuse for everything."
- Author and former M6/M5 agent John le Carré on Democracy Now.
Conquer's Club

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OfflineTGRR
Horrible Bastard


Registered: 05/22/07
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Last seen: 12 years, 1 month
Re: Why The Founding Fathers Would Want Obama's Plans to Fail [Re: ScavengerType]
    #9947796 - 03/10/09 07:25 PM (15 years, 12 days ago)

Quote:

ScavengerType said:
don't waste your time with Luddite I'm not sure if he's serious in his beliefs, trying to sound extreme to troll bate or actually being satirical of conservative beliefs. I think it's a little of all 3.





My guess, based on his name, is that he's performing a brilliant troll.


--------------------
What can we do to help you stop screaming?

Official Mr Shoebat lackey.

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OfflinePhred
Fred's son
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Registered: 10/18/00
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Re: Why The Founding Fathers Would Want Obama's Plans to Fail [Re: ScavengerType]
    #9948651 - 03/10/09 09:51 PM (15 years, 11 days ago)

Quote:

don't waste your time with Luddite I'm not sure if he's serious in his beliefs, trying to sound extreme to troll bate or actually being satirical of conservative beliefs. I think it's a little of all 3.




While you're guessing whether or not another member is serious or not, you're ignoring the fact that the author of the article is serious in his beliefs. What part of Mr. York's article do you find incorrect?




Phred


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OfflineScavengerType
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Registered: 01/24/08
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Re: Why The Founding Fathers Would Want Obama's Plans to Fail [Re: Phred]
    #9948709 - 03/10/09 10:00 PM (15 years, 11 days ago)

I got as far as the title. So I'll go with that.

Though I may add that Luddite posted an article in it's entirety without introducing anything for discussion. Usually when say Carbonhoots or EatUAlive does something like that they find the thread is locked.

The only thing he said was
Quote:

According to this article the founding fathers set up the government to help protect us from Obama's chains.



He basically just restated the title of the article. I've seen the 2 mentioned persons above do something similar and have their threads locked. Why not this one or Luddite's other one?


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"Have you ever seen what happens when a grenade goes off in a school? Do you really know what you’re doing when you order shock and awe? Are you prepared to kneel beside a dying soldier and tell him why he went to Iraq, or why he went to any war?"
"The things that are done in the name of the shareholder are, to me, as terrifying as the things that are done—dare I say it—in the name of God. Montesquieu said, "There have never been so many civil wars as in the Kingdom of God." And I begin to feel that’s true. The shareholder is the excuse for everything."
- Author and former M6/M5 agent John le Carré on Democracy Now.
Conquer's Club

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Invisiblepinkfloydms
!!!!!
Male

Registered: 05/26/04
Posts: 4,470
Loc: City of Dreams
Re: Why The Founding Fathers Would Want Obama's Plans to Fail [Re: ScavengerType]
    #9948788 - 03/10/09 10:13 PM (15 years, 11 days ago)

So 1 quote by James Madison makes it the founding fathers? According to these quotes they were also against religion, What's up with every one thinking this is suppose to be a "christian" nation?

"Twenty times in the course of my late reading, have I been upon the point of breaking out, "This would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religion in it!" - John Adams

"Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprise." - James Madison

"As to Jesus of Nazareth, my Opinion of whom you particularly desire, I think the System of Morals and his Religion...has received various corrupting Changes, and I have, with most of the present dissenters in England, some doubts as to his Divinity." - Ben Franklin

Did you see how Palin contorted these quotes for the past 6 months?
Here are a few at the link. 
http://scienceblogs.com/dispatches/2008/09/palins_christian_heritage_decl.php


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Muppet Said:

so yeah:
- 'sex' five times
- once with a man
- once with a cadaver
- and thrice with actual women(all of which were prostitutes)
Best story ever!

www.panicstream.com :thumbup:

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OfflineSirTripAlot
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Registered: 01/11/05
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Re: Why The Founding Fathers Would Want Obama's Plans to Fail [Re: pinkfloydms]
    #9954391 - 03/11/09 08:29 PM (15 years, 10 days ago)

This is why a strong number of them were deists.


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“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”

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OfflineScavengerType
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Registered: 01/24/08
Posts: 5,784
Loc: The North
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Re: Why The Founding Fathers Would Want Obama's Plans to Fail [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #9954856 - 03/11/09 09:21 PM (15 years, 10 days ago)

Historically a lot of atheistic people claimed to be deists, weather or not they did believe in a god is controversial and in no way provable. Keep in mind, admitting to being an atheist would be political suicide for these people.


--------------------
"Have you ever seen what happens when a grenade goes off in a school? Do you really know what you’re doing when you order shock and awe? Are you prepared to kneel beside a dying soldier and tell him why he went to Iraq, or why he went to any war?"
"The things that are done in the name of the shareholder are, to me, as terrifying as the things that are done—dare I say it—in the name of God. Montesquieu said, "There have never been so many civil wars as in the Kingdom of God." And I begin to feel that’s true. The shareholder is the excuse for everything."
- Author and former M6/M5 agent John le Carré on Democracy Now.
Conquer's Club

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InvisibleLuddite
I watch Fox News
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Registered: 03/23/06
Posts: 2,946
Re: Why The Founding Fathers Would Want Obama's Plans to Fail [Re: ScavengerType]
    #9959413 - 03/12/09 04:48 PM (15 years, 10 days ago)

So what you're saying is that the article is too hard for you to read and you need spoon feeding?  I need to work on my taxes.

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OfflineScavengerType
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Registered: 01/24/08
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Re: Why The Founding Fathers Would Want Obama's Plans to Fail [Re: Luddite]
    #9959472 - 03/12/09 04:58 PM (15 years, 10 days ago)

no I just don't read anything you link to or cite anymore since you cite sources that are basically conservative equivalents of infowars.


--------------------
"Have you ever seen what happens when a grenade goes off in a school? Do you really know what you’re doing when you order shock and awe? Are you prepared to kneel beside a dying soldier and tell him why he went to Iraq, or why he went to any war?"
"The things that are done in the name of the shareholder are, to me, as terrifying as the things that are done—dare I say it—in the name of God. Montesquieu said, "There have never been so many civil wars as in the Kingdom of God." And I begin to feel that’s true. The shareholder is the excuse for everything."
- Author and former M6/M5 agent John le Carré on Democracy Now.
Conquer's Club

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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 9 months
Re: Why The Founding Fathers Would Want Obama's Plans to Fail [Re: ScavengerType]
    #9959511 - 03/12/09 05:05 PM (15 years, 10 days ago)

Byron York is not Alex Jones and the National Review, Atlantic Monthly, DC Examiner, Wall Street Journal, NY Post, etc are not remotely conservative equivalents to infowars.  Any assertion that they are is beyond ludicrous.


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OfflineTGRR
Horrible Bastard


Registered: 05/22/07
Posts: 2,084
Last seen: 12 years, 1 month
Re: Why The Founding Fathers Would Want Obama's Plans to Fail [Re: zappaisgod]
    #9959765 - 03/12/09 05:43 PM (15 years, 10 days ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Byron York is not Alex Jones and the National Review, Atlantic Monthly, DC Examiner, Wall Street Journal, NY Post, etc are not remotely conservative equivalents to infowars.  Any assertion that they are is beyond ludicrous.




Rubbish.  Of course they are.  Direct equivalents.


--------------------
What can we do to help you stop screaming?

Official Mr Shoebat lackey.

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InvisibleStonehenge
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Registered: 06/20/04
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Re: Why The Founding Fathers Would Want Obama's Plans to Fail [Re: TGRR]
    #9960741 - 03/12/09 07:48 PM (15 years, 10 days ago)

The wsj and ny post conservative? compared to what?


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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755

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OfflineScavengerType
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Registered: 01/24/08
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Re: Why The Founding Fathers Would Want Obama's Plans to Fail [Re: Stonehenge]
    #9961078 - 03/12/09 08:44 PM (15 years, 9 days ago)

has luddite started posting links from those sources? Wow a lot must have changed since I started ignoring him. Oh well It seems that luddite is in no shortage of partisan garbage from these websites anyway.


--------------------
"Have you ever seen what happens when a grenade goes off in a school? Do you really know what you’re doing when you order shock and awe? Are you prepared to kneel beside a dying soldier and tell him why he went to Iraq, or why he went to any war?"
"The things that are done in the name of the shareholder are, to me, as terrifying as the things that are done—dare I say it—in the name of God. Montesquieu said, "There have never been so many civil wars as in the Kingdom of God." And I begin to feel that’s true. The shareholder is the excuse for everything."
- Author and former M6/M5 agent John le Carré on Democracy Now.
Conquer's Club

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OfflineTGRR
Horrible Bastard


Registered: 05/22/07
Posts: 2,084
Last seen: 12 years, 1 month
Re: Why The Founding Fathers Would Want Obama's Plans to Fail [Re: Stonehenge]
    #9968247 - 03/14/09 01:38 AM (15 years, 8 days ago)

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
The wsj and ny post conservative? compared to what?




In the WSJ's case?  Anything not owned by Rupert Murdoch.


--------------------
What can we do to help you stop screaming?

Official Mr Shoebat lackey.

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