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OfflineDearSpike
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Reflections on the Vagina Monologues . . .
    #9938781 - 03/09/09 10:01 AM (15 years, 13 days ago)

So, I went to the Vagina Monologues at my school this weekend.  My roommate was in it along with a few other ladies I associate with.  I need to get a few things out there since my girlfriend and her best friend were utterly unwilling to listen to my criticism.  Maybe these things that irked me make me appear as if I were looking for something to get fired up about.  Maybe, unconsciously, I was.  Maybe I'm just fired up because I was unable to have a logical discussion about the content . . .

First of all . . . did you know vibrators are illegal to posses and sell in six different states (I forget which ones they mentioned exactly, but I specifically remember Texas, Alabama, and Indiana)?  I tried to find some reliable info on this, but I can't seem to find anything legit . . . hmm . . .

Anyways, there was one monologue talking about "duck lips" and tampons.  The speculum part I can understand because it really doesn't appear to be too comfortable to me.  My problem lies with these three women going on and on about how stupid and uncomfortable tampons are.  I mean, the only reason tampons exist is because women buy them!  The women in the audience were rolling with laughter as the women on stage bantered about stuffing a wad of fucking cotton in their crotches.  If it's so uncomfortable, STOP BUYING THEM!  Seems obvious to me . . .

The women involved had absolutely NO stage presence, plus, they got to read everything off a piece of paper!  Wtf?  I pointed this out to my girlfriend, and she said to give them a break because it was hard for them to get up there and perform.  No. No no no no no.  If you want to impress me, memorize your lines!  Become your character.  It was sooooo unconvincing.  I am not wrong about this.

Also, the dreaded "female genital mutilation" reared it's ugly head.  I got to sit there and listen to the evils of it.  This made me angry.  Let me just say that female genital mutilation is not something I condone by any means!  However, it is a cultural issue.  Why do western cultures have to impose their cultural values on developing nations?  Fucking cultural imperialism.  Fuck it.  The "facts" they gave in the monologue were inaccurate and misleading enough to piss me off.  For the most part, this ritual is performed on women, BY WOMEN!  It's what they do in some cultures.  While I feel that it is wrong, personally, who am I to say what works for them?

Grr.  I feel like this thread may be getting too long. 

Thanks for the vent.


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OfflineMadtowntripper
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Re: Reflections on the Vagina Monologues . . . [Re: DearSpike]
    #9938796 - 03/09/09 10:05 AM (15 years, 13 days ago)

Eh, there are some things that are wrong cross-culturally.

I don't condone slavery by anyone, even if they feel their "culture" condones it.  Child sex is in the same boat.

And certainly amputating the clitoris of young girls for reasons of male insecurity is one of those things.


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After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus

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OfflineAnonymousRabbit
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Registered: 01/10/08
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. [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #9938805 - 03/09/09 10:10 AM (15 years, 13 days ago)

.


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.

Edited by AnonymousRabbit (05/18/22 05:54 PM)

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InvisibleHendostan
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Registered: 07/18/04
Posts: 4,444
Re: Reflections on the Vagina Monologues . . . [Re: DearSpike]
    #9938811 - 03/09/09 10:12 AM (15 years, 13 days ago)

yeah, i saw that recently too and it annoyed me, but at least the girls here had their lines memorized and did a good job of performing. it was hard for me to bring up criticisms without feeling like the wrath of the entire feminist population was after me. they can be worse than witch hunters.
i thought the stupidest skit was the one about the girl who's husband made her shave her pussy and how you have to love hair to love your vagina. she was totally playing up the victim role, and i couldn't help but think "ya know, you had a choice about marrying him". i was like  :foreheadslap:  i thought feminism was about making decisions for yourself, not being told how to think.

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OfflineDearSpike
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Registered: 10/25/07
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Re: Reflections on the Vagina Monologues . . . [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #9938824 - 03/09/09 10:17 AM (15 years, 13 days ago)

I think it is wrong, too, but why do we have to play culture police?

I can't link my article, but I'll show you where to find it . . .

Boddy, J. "Spirit and Selves in Northern Sudan: The Cultural Therapeutics of Posession and Trance." American Ethnologist (1988) 15:4-27.


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OfflineDearSpike
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Re: Reflections on the Vagina Monologues . . . [Re: Hendostan]
    #9938841 - 03/09/09 10:22 AM (15 years, 13 days ago)

They said that the 'logues were "based on interviews with women," which is code for, "we embellished the shit out of this."  I agreed with the hair lady in the fact that shaved vagina is not what I really care to see.  I want a woman, not a girl.  But, yes, she should've thought that marriage through a little more.  Goes to show just how quick men and women are to jump into this institution.


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Invisiblepong
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Re: Reflections on the Vagina Monologues . . . [Re: DearSpike]
    #9938868 - 03/09/09 10:29 AM (15 years, 13 days ago)

sounds like some feminist shit. ill be sure not to go.


haha.


but srsly wtf.  i need to start making foreskin monolouges all around town.

and preach man power!!!!


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InvisiblePyroBurns
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Registered: 10/14/07
Posts: 4,343
Re: Reflections on the Vagina Monologues . . . [Re: pong]
    #9938919 - 03/09/09 10:47 AM (15 years, 13 days ago)

Ergh that sounds horrible. I see what you're saying too. The feminist movement can be so stupid and while they fight for equality and the disbanding of stereotypes they usually actually EMBRACE them UNWITTINGLY. It can be pretty pathetic. Same for gender queer movements. They preach doing away with binary gender system them immediately identify with multiple gender stereotypes while rating themselves on a scale. :nonono:

I should start my own brand of feminism.


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Remember to cut your nails regularly.


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Invisiblepong
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Re: Reflections on the Vagina Monologues . . . [Re: PyroBurns]
    #9938945 - 03/09/09 10:55 AM (15 years, 13 days ago)

yeah one example of that is the simple fallacy that many people make.


i might have to go to one of these things and ask these BZs to tell me exactly how they themselves have came in contact with anti woman forces that were able to hinder them from leading happy lives.

in fact i believe that the fact that women are portrayed as the victims even when they are the victors is higly detrimental to my psychology bla bla bla bla bla.  Bitches aint shit but holes for dix.


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InvisibleSvampViking
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Registered: 08/26/08
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Re: Reflections on the Vagina Monologues . . . [Re: DearSpike]
    #9938952 - 03/09/09 10:57 AM (15 years, 13 days ago)

"However, it is a cultural issue.  Why do western cultures have to impose their cultural values on developing nations?  Fucking cultural imperialism."

The only reason female circumcision exists in the overwhelming majority of places it does is because of the imposition of cultural values by other cultures. 

If you think this is a cultural issue that should be left up to the individual cultures involved to decide about, then I'd advise you to actually watch a female circumcision be performed and see what you think then.  I'm a cultural relativist, but I'm also a human, and some practices just need to be eradicated.


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The human experience is such that we are caught between being monkies and gods.  It is up to us to decide which direction to go in.

Everything is everything, and everything is becoming itself.

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InvisiblePyroBurns
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Registered: 10/14/07
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Re: Reflections on the Vagina Monologues . . . [Re: SvampViking]
    #9938960 - 03/09/09 10:59 AM (15 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

SvampViking said:
"However, it is a cultural issue.  Why do western cultures have to impose their cultural values on developing nations?  Fucking cultural imperialism."

The only reason female circumcision exists in the overwhelming majority of places it does is because of the imposition of cultural values by other cultures. 

If you think this is a cultural issue that should be left up to the individual cultures involved to decide about, then I'd advise you to actually watch a female circumcision be performed and see what you think then.  I'm a cultural relativist, but I'm also a human, and some practices just need to be eradicated.





I agree. Call me an ignorant American ethnocentrist all you want but if I see some fucker decking his frail old wife for buying a gourd that was too expensive in the bazaar he's going down.


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Remember to cut your nails regularly.


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Invisiblepong
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Re: Reflections on the Vagina Monologues . . . [Re: SvampViking]
    #9938966 - 03/09/09 11:00 AM (15 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

SvampViking said:
"However, it is a cultural issue.  Why do western cultures have to impose their cultural values on developing nations?  Fucking cultural imperialism."

The only reason female circumcision exists in the overwhelming majority of places it does is because of the imposition of cultural values by other cultures. 

If you think this is a cultural issue that should be left up to the individual cultures involved to decide about, then I'd advise you to actually watch a female circumcision be performed and see what you think then.  I'm a cultural relativist, but I'm also a human, and some practices just need to be eradicated.




I WANT YOU TO WATCH A HUMAN CIRCUMCISION!!!!!


FUCK WE STILL DO THAT IN THE USA!!!!!!!!!!!!! 

one of the main areas that i get pleasure in on my dick is part of my foreskin! 

how can you talk about genitalia mutilation in another country when it happens here!!!!!

why?

because women are victims?
because its religious to do so in the US?

well i think they probably do it in other countries as a religious tradition.

skrew the women in africa.

what about the babies in america?


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InvisiblePyroBurns
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Registered: 10/14/07
Posts: 4,343
Re: Reflections on the Vagina Monologues . . . [Re: pong]
    #9938978 - 03/09/09 11:03 AM (15 years, 13 days ago)

Hey I'm happy that I'm circumsized. This way I don't have to worry about my dick turning into a block of gouda if I happen to be on the road for awhile.

Clit cutting is a whole other thing. The male version of that would be cutting off the whole head/glans


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Remember to cut your nails regularly.


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InvisibleSvampViking
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Re: Reflections on the Vagina Monologues . . . [Re: pong]
    #9938980 - 03/09/09 11:03 AM (15 years, 13 days ago)

I hear what you're saying and I agree with you.  I was addressing the point the OP made, which happened to be about female circumcision.


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The human experience is such that we are caught between being monkies and gods.  It is up to us to decide which direction to go in.

Everything is everything, and everything is becoming itself.

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OfflineDearSpike
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Registered: 10/25/07
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Re: Reflections on the Vagina Monologues . . . [Re: SvampViking]
    #9938989 - 03/09/09 11:06 AM (15 years, 13 days ago)

What we are exposed to here are the horror stories.

Boddy, J. "Spirit and Selves in Northern Sudan: The Cultural Therapeutics of Possession and Trance." American Ethnologist (1988) 15:4-27

I know no one is going to track down this article and read it, but it is the source of my feelings towards female genital mutilation, along with the discussion that ensued in my Religion and Culture anthropology class with my professor, herself being a self-proclaimed feminist.  It's definitely WRONG a million times over if it is used as punishment, but when it's performed in a religious context . . . freedom of religion, right?


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Invisiblepong
kretan
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Re: Reflections on the Vagina Monologues . . . [Re: PyroBurns]
    #9939001 - 03/09/09 11:09 AM (15 years, 13 days ago)

well the process is different on an ethical standpoint.

the baby is helpless.

the girl is too but less so.

also the reasons are different

but the procedure remains extremely painful and unnecessary for both little boys and girls.



Quote:

PyroBurns said:
Hey I'm happy that I'm circumsized. This way I don't have to worry about my dick turning into a block of gouda if I happen to be on the road for awhile.






good for you.  but just because you dont remember it doesnt mean they didnt cut ur dick up and u definitly cried and it definitely hurt.


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Invisiblejewunit
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Re: Reflections on the Vagina Monologues . . . [Re: DearSpike]
    #9939004 - 03/09/09 11:10 AM (15 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

DearSpike said:
I think it is wrong, too, but why do we have to play culture police?




Empathetic human beings.


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InvisibleIn(di)go
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Re: Reflections on the Vagina Monologues . . . [Re: pong]
    #9939018 - 03/09/09 11:15 AM (15 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

pong said:
Quote:

SvampViking said:
"However, it is a cultural issue.  Why do western cultures have to impose their cultural values on developing nations?  Fucking cultural imperialism."

The only reason female circumcision exists in the overwhelming majority of places it does is because of the imposition of cultural values by other cultures. 

If you think this is a cultural issue that should be left up to the individual cultures involved to decide about, then I'd advise you to actually watch a female circumcision be performed and see what you think then.  I'm a cultural relativist, but I'm also a human, and some practices just need to be eradicated.




I WANT YOU TO WATCH A HUMAN CIRCUMCISION!!!!!


FUCK WE STILL DO THAT IN THE USA!!!!!!!!!!!!! 

one of the main areas that i get pleasure in on my dick is part of my foreskin! 

how can you talk about genitalia mutilation in another country when it happens here!!!!!

why?

because women are victims?
because its religious to do so in the US?

well i think they probably do it in other countries as a religious tradition.

skrew the women in africa.

what about the babies in america?




QFT...

and pyroburns... i am so tired of the "uncircumcised dicks are dirty" argument... i am not circumcised and i have been on the road for quite some time... and my dick does not smell or turn foul anymore than the rest of my body does... sometimes i think circumcised men use this as an excuse to not clean their shit...


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Invisiblepong
kretan
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Re: Reflections on the Vagina Monologues . . . [Re: In(di)go]
    #9939028 - 03/09/09 11:17 AM (15 years, 13 days ago)

and circumcized cawk is better for srysmashing. 

cus the push is only hard once!

then its all gravy!


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InvisibleUnbearable_B
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Registered: 02/04/09
Posts: 689
Re: Reflections on the Vagina Monologues . . . [Re: pong]
    #9939053 - 03/09/09 11:22 AM (15 years, 13 days ago)

What about male genital mutilation?

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