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Offlinefancypants
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Registered: 02/19/09
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rubbermaid setup (pics added)
    #9916794 - 03/05/09 01:40 PM (15 years, 26 days ago)

A friend of mine just moved his cake from a grow bag and into a translucent rubbermaid container after the cakes first flush.  Inside the container is one inch of gravel, one inch of volcanic rock, just over an inch of water (to just barely touch the bottom of the volcanic layer), and the cake is sitting on the volcanic layer.  He was worried this might hurt a substantial pin set that has developed on the bottom of the cake, but hes picked the thing up and down so much in the past, with no harm done, that by now he figures theyre probably invincible or something.  Ive heard standing water is a bad thing, but Ive also heard thats only the case if its covering the perlite layer, so I figure the standing water in the gravel shouldnt be a problem for him. 

There are also holes poked all around the container, and some larger holes cut out of the lid and covered with packing tape to allow sufficient light to reach the cake.

Hoping it works out for him, as things seem to have been stalling since the first flush.  Im thinking it may be due to the fact that these grow kits sold in boxes with "everything you need" arent so great at producing multiple flushes.  They build moisture over the course of about a month inside the bag, but, after the first flush, dont seem to be capable of rehydrating the cake fast enough for a second go.

Edited by fancypants (03/06/09 07:50 PM)

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InvisibleStarrider
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Re: rubbermaid setup [Re: fancypants]
    #9916829 - 03/05/09 01:44 PM (15 years, 26 days ago)

What's the rock for?


--------------------

"If the doors of perception were cleansed every thing would appear to man at it is, infinite."

William Blake


Anything that I write is for fun only. I am creating fiction for the pleasure of my readers.

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Offlinefancypants
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Re: rubbermaid setup [Re: Starrider]
    #9916836 - 03/05/09 01:45 PM (15 years, 26 days ago)

They're being used to keep the standing water from touching the perlite.  As I understand, perlite captures and retains water well and helps perpetuate humidity levels.  So the theory is that, as the standing water evaporates, the perlite will capture and hold the moisture.

Edited by fancypants (03/05/09 01:47 PM)

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InvisibleStarrider
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Re: rubbermaid setup [Re: fancypants]
    #9916845 - 03/05/09 01:47 PM (15 years, 26 days ago)

You only need to soak the perlite in water. Use a colander to run water thru the perlite. That should be enough to get RH to 100%


--------------------

"If the doors of perception were cleansed every thing would appear to man at it is, infinite."

William Blake


Anything that I write is for fun only. I am creating fiction for the pleasure of my readers.

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Offlinefancypants
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Re: rubbermaid setup [Re: Starrider]
    #9916906 - 03/05/09 01:55 PM (15 years, 26 days ago)

I've also been wondering why, if light is responsible for the direction the fruits grow toward, this first flush seemed to virtually run from the light source.  Is this a myth or what?

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Offlinedead
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Re: rubbermaid setup [Re: Starrider]
    #9916914 - 03/05/09 01:56 PM (15 years, 26 days ago)

Uh... what? Gravel? Did you pick it from the roadside or something? Hope you sterilized it first...

Standing water is bad. What you need to do is install an airpump to run some air through the water, a) to keep the water in motion and b) to increase humidity and FAE.

OR you can just make a shotgun FC. Remove all the stuff from the FC, make holes on all sides including top & bottom, add wet perlite on the bottom and elevate the FC so that air can travel in through the bottom holes.

Also, are you dunking your cake between flushes? You should definitely do that. Cold tap water, in room temperature not in the fridge, cakes need to be weighed down with something heavy like a plate or something to keep them submerged.


--------------------
"The third eye. You spend years doing everything you can to open it and then the damn thing opens and your friends laugh at you when you tell them you can see their souls behind their eyes burning like rainbows."

Links:
:regularshroom:Nibin's Guide for Noobs
:regularshroom:some easy teks on bulk & grain prep. (my journal)

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Offlinedead
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Re: rubbermaid setup [Re: dead]
    #9916928 - 03/05/09 01:57 PM (15 years, 26 days ago)

Quote:

if light is responsible for the direction the fruits grow toward




This is only partially true. Air currents influence it as well, and since there are none in your FC they might get confused about which way is up.

Just read this thread (click)


--------------------
"The third eye. You spend years doing everything you can to open it and then the damn thing opens and your friends laugh at you when you tell them you can see their souls behind their eyes burning like rainbows."

Links:
:regularshroom:Nibin's Guide for Noobs
:regularshroom:some easy teks on bulk & grain prep. (my journal)

Edited by dead (03/05/09 01:58 PM)

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Offlinefancypants
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Re: rubbermaid setup [Re: dead]
    #9916957 - 03/05/09 02:01 PM (15 years, 26 days ago)

Didn't dunk, just continued to mist and slowly poured on water until the cake stopped sucking it up.  Was afraid to upset currently forming pin sets with a dunk.  The gravel (actually labeled as "River Gravel") was purchased at a local gardening store.  It came in a relatively small package that said it was intended for indoor gardening.  And yeah, since the first flush came from the cake being in a bag that was situated atop a refrigerator, there definitely wasn't any airflow effecting the direction.  Thanks for that bit of info, I'd searched on the subject but evidently not hard enough.

Edited by fancypants (03/05/09 02:05 PM)

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Offlinefancypants
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Re: rubbermaid setup [Re: fancypants]
    #9917118 - 03/05/09 02:21 PM (15 years, 26 days ago)

I'm going to stick with this method, just out of curiosity.  I just wanted to post so I could share the results in a few days to a week. 

I also think I'd been fine with just leaving the lid off of the container, but I saw a gnat flying around yesterday, so that's a go.  Those bastards aren't finding a home in that cake.

Edited by fancypants (03/05/09 02:24 PM)

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Offlinedead
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Re: rubbermaid setup [Re: fancypants]
    #9918285 - 03/05/09 05:03 PM (15 years, 26 days ago)

You need to dunk your cakes between flushes. It won't harm the pins if you are careful. There's no other effective/worthwhile way of rehydrating cakes. Just pouring water on won't cut it. They need to be submerged deep underwater so that the water pressure will force the moisture in through the cell wall of the mycelium.


--------------------
"The third eye. You spend years doing everything you can to open it and then the damn thing opens and your friends laugh at you when you tell them you can see their souls behind their eyes burning like rainbows."

Links:
:regularshroom:Nibin's Guide for Noobs
:regularshroom:some easy teks on bulk & grain prep. (my journal)

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Offlinefancypants
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Re: rubbermaid setup [Re: dead]
    #9919052 - 03/05/09 07:22 PM (15 years, 26 days ago)

I did some half-assed googling for some info regarding mushroom hydration and found this:

"There are basically two reasons mushrooms are able grow so fast. Firstly, since they store up nutrients between fruiting and can only fruit after a rain."

I found it on this site http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/833913/how_mushrooms_grow_pg2.html?cat=32 , and who knows how valid that info is, but, if it's true, then isn't dunking just speeding along something that usually occurs naturally?  If mycelium absorbs and stores water from rain just fine, then why is it necessary to "force the moisture in through the cell wall of the mycelium"?  And, not to be a dick or anything, but does that even make sense?  Can you "force" something through a cell wall quicker by adding pressure?

Again, I don't mean to be a dick in any way, and I really appreciate the info, but I'm going to give this tek a week because I honestly think it'll work.  And, if it doesn't, then I'll report that back and give the thing a dunk (hopefully it won't be too late, but if so, I'll be fine with that).  But, hey, always worth a shot to try a new method, right?  A lot of the info on this site seems to have originated from experimentation, and I'm happy that the cake produced 19 dried grams already, so I'm willing to take a risk and see how it goes.

Either way, I'll report back, even if I have to end up doing it with my head hanging low.

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InvisibleGreen_T
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Re: rubbermaid setup [Re: fancypants]
    #9919099 - 03/05/09 07:28 PM (15 years, 26 days ago)

.

Edited by green_titan (04/01/09 11:52 PM)

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OfflineMykologist
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Re: rubbermaid setup [Re: fancypants]
    #9919132 - 03/05/09 07:33 PM (15 years, 26 days ago)

Sometimes mushrooms will grow toward the perlite because it's so white and reflective. Air currents could also play into this, as some have mentioned.
good luck with your grow!


--------------------


Where would you rather be?

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Offlinefancypants
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Re: rubbermaid setup [Re: Mykologist]
    #9919182 - 03/05/09 07:41 PM (15 years, 26 days ago)

I suppose whether this could work or not depends on how long it takes the standing water to evaporate.  If it only takes 24 hours for what's under the perlite to evaporate, I don't think contam will be an issue, and it could also be a good way for the cake to self regulate itself on water intake.

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Offlinefancypants
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Re: rubbermaid setup [Re: fancypants]
    #9919456 - 03/05/09 08:19 PM (15 years, 26 days ago)

So, according to this http://www.erowid.org/plants/mushrooms/mushrooms_cultivation_perlite.shtml#3 , this method isn't as experimental as I thought it was, and is actually practiced. 

Here's the excerpt:

"How much water do I add to the perlite?
There are 2 slightly different methods you can use. The first is to put about 1.5-2 inches of perlite in the bottom of your grow chamber then add about 1/2-3/4 inch of water. The water level needs to be well BELOW the top of the perlite. Only the perlite that is exposed to the air will wick up the water and release it into the air over time. It will take a few hours (depending on the external humidity and size of the chamber) after adding the water to the perlite before the grow chamber will be humidified.

The other method is to put your perlite in a big bowl and add water. You want the perlite to be pretty wet, without having any extra, so fill then pour off the excess. Once the perlite is wet, cover the entire bottom of the grow chamber with a 1.5-2 inch thick layer. With this method, some people like to place thin layers of dry perlite under and on top of the wet perlite layer.

With either method, as the perlite dries, you can occasionally add a bit more water (weekly or so). You should add just enough to keep the perlite wet, but not enough to create any standing water which would increase the chances of contamination. Be careful not to overfill."

So, as long as the water at the bottom evaporates quickly enough, I think I should be okay.  I think.

That page also warns against the inhalation of perlite dust, saying it's like "glass in the lungs."  Whoops.  I'm sure I got a good lungful when pouring it.  Hopefully the tar from my cigarette smoking will suck it all up.

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Offlinefancypants
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Re: rubbermaid setup [Re: fancypants]
    #9921053 - 03/06/09 01:44 AM (15 years, 26 days ago)

After more consideration, a few holes have been poked in the bottom, the standing water drained.  Not worth the risk of contam.

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InvisibleStarrider
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Re: rubbermaid setup [Re: fancypants]
    #9921066 - 03/06/09 01:53 AM (15 years, 26 days ago)

Hydration is a major part of the mycelium growth. I just soaked a tray that is 100% colonized and it is showing signs of growth, even in the dark. I had placed tinfoil over it and left it out of the FC for the night. Humidity is the second part of the equation. Must 95-100% for the mycelium to grow properly.


--------------------

"If the doors of perception were cleansed every thing would appear to man at it is, infinite."

William Blake


Anything that I write is for fun only. I am creating fiction for the pleasure of my readers.

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Offlinedead
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Re: rubbermaid setup [Re: Starrider]
    #9921379 - 03/06/09 06:02 AM (15 years, 25 days ago)

Quote:

So, according to this http://www.erowid.org/plants/mushrooms/mushrooms_cultivation_perlite.shtml#3 , this method isn't as experimental as I thought it was, and is actually practiced.




No, it's not experimental, it's just outdated and inefficient.

If you don't dunk your cakes they will dry out and stop producing after the second flush. But hey, your choice.


--------------------
"The third eye. You spend years doing everything you can to open it and then the damn thing opens and your friends laugh at you when you tell them you can see their souls behind their eyes burning like rainbows."

Links:
:regularshroom:Nibin's Guide for Noobs
:regularshroom:some easy teks on bulk & grain prep. (my journal)

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Offlineveda_sticks
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Re: rubbermaid setup [Re: dead]
    #9921497 - 03/06/09 07:24 AM (15 years, 25 days ago)

Pf tek cake substrate is very dense compared to other substrates, thats why a 24 hour dunk submerged under water is needed to fully hydrate the cake.


You will seriously increase your performance by dunking prior to each flush. Mushrooms are 90% water.

www.mushroomvideos.com

watch the pf tek videos and build a fruiting chamber like that.

You dont want standing water in your fruiting chamber, its a breeding ground for bacteria unless you run an air pump through it. Also, you dont want any perlite covered with water. Thats an old outdated tek. If your use a shotgun fruiting chamber built properly natural air currents will draw air through the bottom and up through the perlite wicking up moisture as it filters through the perlite.


--------------------

PF TEK - writeup by EvilMushroom666
Lets Grow Mushrooms - RogerRabbit & RoadKills website with sample videos plus the full PF TEK video series. Alot of great information - BUY THE DVD
Cakes can and will pin! - So you think cakes suck for pins. Your wrong
Franks Simple Coir/Verm Tek
Franks Proper Pasturisation Tek
Franks Spawning To Bulk - Monotub
Professor Pinheads RTV Injection Port Tek
Foo Mans No Soak WBS Prep Tek

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Offlinefancypants
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Re: rubbermaid setup [Re: veda_sticks]
    #9921575 - 03/06/09 08:08 AM (15 years, 25 days ago)

Nope, you guys are right.  I flipped the cake, however, and noticed a flush hiding underneath.  None of these guys have aborted yet, the caps are still light, although there is some noticeable bruising in parts due to having set on the bottom for far too long.  So, I'm going to give these little fruits (about 30 half inch) a few days.  One good sign since flipping is that a few that were crushed against the substrate, even the bruised ones, have stood straight now.  Hopefully the cake substrate still has enough hydration left in it to give these some life.  If not, after a few days, I'll pick them and dunk.

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