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 deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
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 The Jesus Christ delusion... 
#9870769 - 02/26/09 04:24 PM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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Who here has experienced it, and why does it manifest in so many schizophrenics? Is it a failed attempt to transcend to Christ consciousness, or simply an organic disorder in the brain? I've experienced this myself on the peak of some very heavy trips, but I'm still baffled as to the significance... sometimes I think it would be ironic if the Second Coming had already happened and the unfortunate Jesus is currently locked away in an insane asylum.
http://www.schizophrenia.com:8080/jiveforums/forum.jspa?forumID=16&start=0 has some pretty interesting reading on the topic of such schizophrenic delusions and false beliefs of grandeur.
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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
  
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Silversoul
Rhizome
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Loc: The Barricades
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 Re: The Jesus Christ delusion... [Re: deCypher]
#9870836 - 02/26/09 04:38 PM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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Ram Dass once talked of visiting a schizophrenic in the mental hospital who believed he was Jesus Christ. He said that many of the schizophrenic's words seemed rather wise. He then commented to the schizo, "I think I might be Christ too." The schizo then angrily scolded him, saying he and he alone is Christ. Ram Dass responded that he thought that was why was locked up in there.
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 cookeman
Live and let live
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Re: The Jesus Christ delusion... [Re: deCypher]
#9870860 - 02/26/09 04:42 PM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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I think a lot of people develop that specific belief because christianity is such a huge cult around them. If you had never heard of jesus or god or really any type of religion, do you really think you (even while tripping) would ever imagine your self some type of son of god? In this day and age I seriously doubt it. Maybe way way back when man didn't have so many answers for the world around them, but not now. I also think a lot of them are in desperate need of attention just like a lot of people who have seen aliens/ big foot/ whatever folklore you can think of. Just my quick two cents
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“Let’s put it this way – to lump psychedelic mushrooms into the same group as methamphetamine is like lumping the Bible into the same group as Mein Kampf.
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EternalCowabunga
Being of Great Significance
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Re: The Jesus Christ delusion... [Re: cookeman]
#9870887 - 02/26/09 04:46 PM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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I was born Jewish but once after a heavy mushroom trip, I thought I was Jesus Christ for a few weeks, or the next Jesus Christ. I thought I could heal people and I thought that I had been born to save the world.
I have been diagnosed as a schizophrenic which might be why this happened, but I've heard it happening to quite a few people.
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Silversoul
Rhizome
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Loc: The Barricades
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Re: The Jesus Christ delusion... [Re: deCypher]
#9870900 - 02/26/09 04:49 PM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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As for the delusions of grandeur, I think it has to do with transcending the bounds of your individuality. You experience yourself as the macrocosm rather than the microcosm. You feel as if the universe were an extension of your body and mind. Thus, feeling as though you're omnipotent would seem to fit perfectly with such a grandiose vision.
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BigJonMud
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Re: The Jesus Christ delusion... [Re: Silversoul]
#9870986 - 02/26/09 05:00 PM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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Yeah-
I had the full blown delusions of perseuction and grandeur during/after my first mushy trip.
But, I was day tripping- and stared at the sun for several minutes.
After the bright blur faded, the sun became Christ lying in a pool of blood and I understood that I revealed too much of mystery to my waking eye.
Since making a full recovery and many years later- I believe the mushrooms were pressing 'reset' on my very early psychological imprints.
There is that christ consciousness thing.. and also,
Christianity, as a religion that has used fear and punishment to control populations for millenia- is deeply imprinted within many of us. Even in our genes. It is in a way, the very last archetypal gate we must pass before touching true universal consciousness.
What I learnt is that we are all capable of the christ consciousness- but that the church has fucked it up for too long.
Maybe it has something to do with shattering the ego aswell. Kind of like, 'what is my original face?'.
"Well, son.. you are the light.. and beyond your earthly ego, yo are me. You are he.
And we, me and he are all ONE".
Or some shit- Hahahahaha. lol.
It is at the same time, both incredibly true.. incredible valid, and also incredibly USELESS to consensus, day to day reality.
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daytripper23
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Loc: 
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Re: The Jesus Christ delusion... [Re: BigJonMud]
#9871192 - 02/26/09 05:29 PM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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I am that I am
(been there done that)
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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir
Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: The Jesus Christ delusion... [Re: deCypher]
#9874231 - 02/27/09 02:13 AM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
deCypher said:
I've experienced this myself on the peak of some very heavy trips, but I'm still baffled as to the significance... sometimes I think it would be ironic if the Second Coming had already happened and the unfortunate Jesus is currently locked away in an insane asylum.
What were your experiences like?
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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan   fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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fazdazzle
Wanderer
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Re: The Jesus Christ delusion... [Re: deCypher]
#9877190 - 02/27/09 01:34 PM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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Who says it's a delusion? Maybe you're just experiencing your potential.
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deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
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Re: The Jesus Christ delusion... [Re: Silversoul]
#9877593 - 02/27/09 02:29 PM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Silversoul said:
As for the delusions of grandeur, I think it has to do with transcending the bounds of your individuality. You experience yourself as the macrocosm rather than the microcosm. You feel as if the universe were an extension of your body and mind. Thus, feeling as though you're omnipotent would seem to fit perfectly with such a grandiose vision.
I'm not sure if that properly describes the experience. For me, it was as if I felt universal compassion and forgiveness for my fellow man; not omnipotence so much as my desire to heal felt so right, true, and pure that no force could stop it.
Quote:
Poid said:
What were your experiences like?
So far my two experiences have occurred solely on magic mushrooms. The first was probably the most intense; I became the main actor in the story and tribulations of Jesus. All my friends became archetypes--apostles, archangels, even the God Pan. It was as if my experience with the outside world transcended metaphor and simile to reflect back some sort of hero's journey from the collective unconscious. I felt prophetic; destined to save the world but not irrational at all--my friends had no idea that this was going on as I kept talking normally with them, but every interaction was flavored with a subtle back-text of hidden communication. It got pretty crazy towards the end... I had some half-formed idea that Barrack Obama in league with the Illuminati would come find me and proclaim me as savior of the world.  . Clearly schizophrenic overtones here, but the main thrust of the Christ experience seemed too pure and holy to dismiss as mere figments of the illusion.
My second was my most recent trip. No false delusions present this time of Obama or anything similar; just again a rise into identity with Christ and universal compassion with all. There was what felt to be complete understanding at the time--I understood the necessary relationship between and existence of good and evil, and I felt an instantaneous transcendent connection to the original Jesus.
The odd thing is that before these experiences I would have considered myself to be nihilistic and atheistic to the extreme. I did not grow up Christian, and for that matter I consider Islam, Hinduism, and even psychedelic spirituality to deliver just as much truth as the sandal-wearing, bearded one. EternalCowabunga, how similar were your experiences? Should I worry that the next time I trip I'll be left thinking I'm Jesus Christ until they come lock me away?
Quote:
fazdazzle said:
Who says it's a delusion? Maybe you're just experiencing your potential.
Indeed. Until my healing powers manifest themselves (personally I'd have much use for the good ol' water-into-wine trick), I think I'll lean towards the former option.
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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
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EternalCowabunga
Being of Great Significance
Registered: 04/04/05
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Loc: Time and Space
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Re: The Jesus Christ delusion... [Re: deCypher]
#9878312 - 02/27/09 03:47 PM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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My experiences were very, very similar. Probably identical. It's hard to remember it all now as it was about 3 years ago.. I've been mushrooms since then but usually low doses, so I don't know if it will happen again. Getting locked up isn't so bad anyway.. I've met some cool people in the mental hospital.
I didn't experience my friends becoming archetypes, maybe because I didn't know the Bible so well so it didn't manifest that way. I do remember that nobody knew that I thought I was Jesus Christ, I continued having normal conversations with people - but, like you said, it was all flavored with hidden communication. I remember one time I was talking to my sister, and I could see the pain and trauma of her life, and I felt like I was subtly healing her as I was talking to her.
I hadn't heard about the Illuminati back then, but I did feel, like you, that I was destined to save the world. I would look at people, and I sensed this underlying rage and anger in everyone, like they were living in a harsher world than I was perceiving. It was like they had been tainted and I was pure enough to get rid of that hatred in them.
I do remember seeing what seemed to be Jesus on the mushroom trip that caused all this - I can barely remember, but I think I saw his face radiating pure compassion and forgiveness.
I was also a nihilist and an athiest before this experience.
Years after the experience, this is some thoughts about it off the top of my head...
The Jesus Christ delusion is one possible reality.. but it is not true christ consciousness.. the compassion felt is real, but the feelings of persecution and divine destiny make for a bad trip.. especially because towards the end of the experience i was feeling severely despaired that i wouldn't be able to save the world.
I don't believe that I truly healed anyone at all during this period, and that's also what makes it not christ consciousness. I was not seated in bliss or joy, but the whole experience had a background of dread and despair.. I don't remember it being a particularly peaceful time. This may be different with others' experiences.
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deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
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Very interesting; this certainly provides some new food for thought. I can't say my experiences were riddled with much dread and despair, though... I had more of a sense of hope and joyful anticipation for the future. There was a whole lot of apocalyptic feel to it; 2012 figured prominently in my looking ahead to the future although I cannot give any inkling of what I expect to happen then (if anything does happen at all).
If you don't mind my asking, why did you end up going to the mental hospital if nobody else around you knew you were going through the experience?
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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
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EternalCowabunga
Being of Great Significance
Registered: 04/04/05
Posts: 7,152
Loc: Time and Space
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Re: The Jesus Christ delusion... [Re: deCypher]
#9878483 - 02/27/09 04:03 PM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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I think I had hope in the beginning, but despair when I realized how much I would need to change in the world, and then depression when I felt like my destiny would not be fulfilled. Yes, my experience definitely had an apocalyptic feel to it. Not sure if I had heard of 2012 back then..
Oh ya, I didn't end up in the mental hospital from the jesus christ thing, the mental hospital was a more recent thing.
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Silversoul
Rhizome
Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: The Jesus Christ delusion... [Re: deCypher]
#9880298 - 02/27/09 08:05 PM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
deCypher said:
I'm not sure if that properly describes the experience. For me, it was as if I felt universal compassion and forgiveness for my fellow man; not omnipotence so much as my desire to heal felt so right, true, and pure that no force could stop it.
I see. I was confused by your use of the word "delusion." What you just described doesn't sound like a delusion at all.
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xFrockx
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Re: The Jesus Christ delusion... [Re: Silversoul]
#9880596 - 02/27/09 08:53 PM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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Once during a trip I came to the conclusion that we all live the same life over and over again, and that I would be the person to break it to the world. I spent a lot of time nearly crying at the fact that I ended up with such an idea, and I didn't know what it would do to the world.
Turns out the Pythagoreans beat me to it, so now I still think it is true, I just realize that I can never know. For me, believing this all repeats is just the best way to use Occam's razor and maintain some concept of an afterlife (although this is putting it oddly).
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Mastamike1118
Registered: 03/29/07
Posts: 2,010
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Re: The Jesus Christ delusion... [Re: Silversoul]
#9881869 - 02/28/09 01:19 AM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Silversoul said:
Ram Dass once talked of visiting a schizophrenic in the mental hospital who believed he was Jesus Christ. He said that many of the schizophrenic's words seemed rather wise. He then commented to the schizo, "I think I might be Christ too." The schizo then angrily scolded him, saying he and he alone is Christ. Ram Dass responded that he thought that was why was locked up in there.
damn that is nice ass thinking and a warning to all too!
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deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
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Re: The Jesus Christ delusion... [Re: Silversoul]
#9884330 - 02/28/09 01:01 PM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Silversoul said:
I see. I was confused by your use of the word "delusion." What you just described doesn't sound like a delusion at all.
Right. Except some true beliefs still end up with you being locked away in a straitjacket.
or nailed to a tree for saying how great it would be to be nice to people for a change
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jvm
I knew the pieces fit!
Registered: 05/08/07
Posts: 2,031
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Re: The Jesus Christ delusion... [Re: deCypher]
#9884353 - 02/28/09 01:05 PM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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I agree with ram dass.
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MEEZIE
Incognito
Registered: 02/28/09
Posts: 711
Loc: USA
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Quote:
EternalCowabunga said:
I was born Jewish but once after a heavy mushroom trip, I thought I was Jesus Christ for a few weeks, or the next Jesus Christ. I thought I could heal people and I thought that I had been born to save the world.
I have been diagnosed as a schizophrenic which might be why this happened, but I've heard it happening to quite a few people.
Ive tripped pretty hard before and was really talking to jesus my whole trip.
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Hubbub
Mongol of Moot Mute
Registered: 02/24/09
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Re: The Jesus Christ delusion... [Re: MEEZIE]
#9891176 - 03/01/09 03:46 PM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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We are all Jesus Christ in disguise.
I grew up in an athiest family, I have never been to church and have never read the bible, but even I have had an experience were I felt like the Messiah.
After this experience I concluded that we are all Jesus Christ or we all have the potential to become Christ. I think this is true.
I remember as a young child having similar feelings sober. Id lay awake at night and just think about my life. Sometimes Id get a profound sense of significance and destiny. I had heard about something called the Messiah back then and I actually remember thinking that I might be that. But Id shrug it off after doubting myself. "Me? No not me. Im too stupid."
But now I think I am, but we all are. Its just whether or not we persue it.
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Edited by Hubbub (03/01/09 03:50 PM)
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