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Offlinellibby
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Buddhism
    #9857149 - 02/24/09 03:55 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Hello, I am trying to decide if I should experiment with Psilocybin mushrooms this summer (I am thinking just experiencing it once or twice).

It got my interest when I learned of "ego death" being associated with it and LSD.... also, when I learned about Timothy Leary and his observation that the Tibetan book of the dead can double as a manual for going on an LSD trip.  (correct me if I said that wrong).

So, I am only interested in it as a tool for spiritual inquiry. 


I want this to be an ethical descision though:  A lot of Buddhist might say that it qualifies as an intoxicant and thus violates Buddhist principles... But in my own opinion, it would not be an intoxicant unless you are just doing it to have fun... and also I think we should keep in mind the middle path.... moderation.

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InvisibleIcelander
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Registered: 03/15/05
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Re: Buddhism [Re: llibby]
    #9857182 - 02/24/09 04:02 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Go for it I say. I think for a proper "ego death" experience you need to take a really hefty dose. Go for it sez I.:thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Offlinellibby
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Re: Buddhism [Re: Icelander]
    #9857212 - 02/24/09 04:08 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Ahh thanks... In order to make it more likely to be a spiritual experience and not just something silly, I was thinking of fasting and meditating constantly before taking it.  I'm actually not a Buddhist yet, but I'm interested in Buddhism.  There's a book about this topic on amazon called "Zig zag zen"

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OfflineJoshua Giraffe
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Re: Buddhism [Re: llibby]
    #9857228 - 02/24/09 04:10 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

I think if you are taking a substance to increase awareness it is not considered intoxication. Buddhists throughout history have used caffeine to stay alert while meditating.

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Buddhism [Re: llibby]
    #9857240 - 02/24/09 04:12 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

That book is a good one to read.

For me it takes well over five grams of good quality dried shrooms to even get me near my ego. But remember you can try this more than once.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Invisiblearainbow
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Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 691
Loc: Palnet Earth
Re: Buddhism [Re: llibby]
    #9857267 - 02/24/09 04:16 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

you can experience spiritual states of mind with psychedelics
BUT
there are so many side effects from the drugs that the experience is useless and your state of mind will be such that you will not be able to sort out what is what


--------------------
There is more joy in heaven over one of us perfected,
  than over ninety-nine naturally evolved angels.

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Buddhism [Re: arainbow]
    #9857273 - 02/24/09 04:16 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Please elaborate.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Offlinellibby
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Re: Buddhism [Re: arainbow]
    #9857348 - 02/24/09 04:27 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

I read that "set and setting" and expectation have a lot to do with what kind of experience you'll have.  Anyway, what sort of side effects?  Since a larger does was suggested by Icelander, I was thinking start off with a very small dose, say .5 grams, then 1 gram 12 hours later, then 2 grams in another 12 hours, then 3.5 grams, then 5 grams. 

Hmm, that doesn't sound like a good ideA.. does that sound dangerous?  I might have 3 or 4 days for this, where I will Go to Eugene, Or. to my friend's house, and I won't have any stress.

Also, My bodyweight is only 112 pounds, so would I be more sensitive to a lower dose? Especially since I don't drink or smoke,.  I've never even tried marijuana.

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Buddhism [Re: llibby]
    #9857358 - 02/24/09 04:29 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

I would say a small dose would be of no value unless you were very experienced in  meditation.

I would take the fiver.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Invisiblearainbow
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Posts: 691
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Re: Buddhism [Re: Icelander]
    #9857380 - 02/24/09 04:32 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

you do get the feeling of being here now but it is so mixed in with other feelings and incomplete feelings that the spiritual experience gets lost
the fact that psychedelics short out neural path ways leaves you unable to sort out your feelings 

feeling as in emotional


--------------------
There is more joy in heaven over one of us perfected,
  than over ninety-nine naturally evolved angels.

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Buddhism [Re: arainbow]
    #9857386 - 02/24/09 04:33 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

And you feel you are in a position to speak for everyone who takes psychedelics?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Invisiblearainbow
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Posts: 691
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Re: Buddhism [Re: arainbow]
    #9857517 - 02/24/09 04:53 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

I am speaking from spiritual experience
as well as psychedelic experience
like the edge of the white light from both
and my psychedelic spiritual experience agrees with others who are experienced spiritually and with psychedelics


--------------------
There is more joy in heaven over one of us perfected,
  than over ninety-nine naturally evolved angels.

Edited by arainbow (02/24/09 04:53 PM)

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Offlineandrewss
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Re: Buddhism [Re: arainbow]
    #9857579 - 02/24/09 05:07 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

I say go for it, I think you will find mushrooms to be amazing tools. I would also say DMT if you can make it or come across it is extremely "spiritual like" in my experience. Same with mushrooms though. LSD is amazing too, but in my experience LSD trips, even higher doses, do not seem to be as shattering/emotional as DMT/mushrooms.


--------------------
Jesus loves you.

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Invisiblearainbow
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Re: Buddhism [Re: arainbow]
    #9857680 - 02/24/09 05:22 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Mind you I'm not discouraging hem from doing psychedelics
what I'm saying is that will have a psychedelic experience with a spiritual experience mixed in
he will still not know what a spiritual experience really is
BUT
he will have prof that there are other states of mind this may lead hem to explore the world of the spiritual it has done so for many others


--------------------
There is more joy in heaven over one of us perfected,
  than over ninety-nine naturally evolved angels.

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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Buddhism [Re: arainbow]
    #9858151 - 02/24/09 06:34 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

he will have prof (sic) that there are other states of mind




One need to take mushrooms to know that a brain works differently when drugged?


--------------------

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Offlinedruglord
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Registered: 01/14/07
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Re: Buddhism [Re: llibby]
    #9858422 - 02/24/09 07:24 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Even just 2 or 3 grams for a first experience is probably enough to put you into a radically different state of mind.  Also, to make it a "spiritual" experience, just approach it the way you would any other learning experience.

For me, one of the most useful effects is the ultra-high level of concentration.  That's a major connection with Buddhism since meditation brings focus/concentration.

I think rainbow has a point though about side effects.  For example, the tolerance for powerful or unfamiliar experiences that meditation brings is something you might not have if you just jump straight to that high level of concentration with drugs.  For this reason, it can be scary because high concentration brings immense power.  Just know that these side effects (which can include fear, paranoia, etc.), which you may or may not experience, don't have to be associated with power.  Your response to the drugs depends on your current tendencies, which are all changeable.

Good luck with whatever you decide.

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Buddhism [Re: arainbow]
    #9861512 - 02/25/09 09:22 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

arainbow said:
I am speaking from spiritual experience
as well as psychedelic experience
like the edge of the white light from both
and my psychedelic spiritual experience agrees with others who are experienced spiritually and with psychedelics





I know some experienced psychonaut's that would disagree.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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OfflineRocker232
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Registered: 10/17/08
Posts: 6,631
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Re: Buddhism [Re: arainbow]
    #9861513 - 02/25/09 09:22 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

arainbow said:
you do get the feeling of being here now but it is so mixed in with other feelings and incomplete feelings that the spiritual experience gets lost
the fact that psychedelics short out neural path ways leaves you unable to sort out your feelings 

feeling as in emotional




Thank you for spreading misinformation, now go back to the cave you came from. The psychedelic experience is a person way, for shame that you think you can tell anyone what their experience will be.


--------------------
With Allure I Look to the Sky With Awakened Eyes

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Offlineflip3084
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Re: Buddhism [Re: Rocker232]
    #9861525 - 02/25/09 09:26 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

I think your opinon of buddahism is based of of one practice. Nichren Daishonins buddahism, doesn't quite work like that. Living your life by Nam-myho-renge-kyo is what it is about. Obtaining true happiness through enlightenment.Buddhahood! If mind altering substances help you to gain understanding, then there is no qualm with this..


--------------------


Nam-myoho-renge-kyo

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Buddhism [Re: flip3084]
    #9861534 - 02/25/09 09:29 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

IMO the core of Buddhism is sound psychological health. (how to not be neurotic). The rest is religious fluff and gives it a bad name.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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