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Offlinemushroomhunter10
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Question about bulk substrates and keeping them sterile when you add your spawn.
    #9826334 - 02/19/09 12:44 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Okay.

Let's say for instance you Monotub lovers out there.

How do you keep such a large amount of substrate contaminant-free?? Do you just mix it in a bucket in a glove box?

It seems that at some point the substrates for Monotubs have to be exposed when you put it in there and when you add your crumbled spawn.

How do you avoid contamination during these parts of the process? It seems they HAVE to be exposed at some point then it just becomes luck.


Sorry if it's too newbiesh of a question.

Thanks


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Re: Question about bulk substrates and keeping them sterile when you add your spawn. [Re: mushroomhunter10]
    #9826359 - 02/19/09 12:48 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

LOL at the pic on the right (sig)
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Re: Question about bulk substrates and keeping them sterile when you add your spawn. [Re: fltdriver82]
    #9826370 - 02/19/09 12:51 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

are you sterilizing your substrate?

You don't need to, that is your source of contams. Try pasteurizing, there is no need to be sterile once you have spawned.


--------------------
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Edited by Jitsu (02/19/09 12:52 PM)

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OfflineSalty
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Re: Question about bulk substrates and keeping them sterile when you add your spawn. [Re: Jitsu]
    #9826425 - 02/19/09 01:04 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

You don't need to be sterile when making a monotub because the mycelium you use to spawn should beat out any contams before they have time to take hold of the substrate, this is assuming the monotub is make correctly.

P.S. this is all assuming you've pasteurized your bulk as stated above

Edited by Salty (02/19/09 01:08 PM)

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Offlinefltdriver82
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Re: Question about bulk substrates and keeping them sterile when you add your spawn. [Re: Salty]
    #9826430 - 02/19/09 01:06 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Yeah did a little looking, after you mix your spawn with the sub, you put a layer of spawn over the top, acts as a contam barrier.

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InvisibleJitsu
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Re: Question about bulk substrates and keeping them sterile when you add your spawn. [Re: fltdriver82]
    #9826452 - 02/19/09 01:10 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Yep a sterilized sub is the reason you are getting contamination.

Try pasteurizing at 160F for 30mins - 1 hour. Let your substrate cool then start layering in your monotub. There is no requirement to be totally sterile at all. Whenever I spawn my shit I do it in my room without a fan on and I am generally clean. I like to shower first and wash my hands with antibacterial soap.

The Myceliem has already established itself in your spawn, thus making is very resistant to contamination. Think of it like an immune system I suppose.

Edited by Jitsu (02/19/09 01:49 PM)

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Invisiblearp180
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Re: Question about bulk substrates and keeping them sterile when you add your spawn. [Re: fltdriver82]
    #9826497 - 02/19/09 01:19 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

fltdriver82 said:
Yeah did a little looking, after you mix your spawn with the sub, you put a layer of spawn over the top, acts as a contam barrier.




What your referring to is called a frosting your bulk sub with spawn and is a horrible idea. It is more correct to mix your bulk sub and spawn gently at a good ratio say 1:4, then when finished spread a super think layer of bulk sub over the top, not spawn.  grain spawn has such a high nutrition content that even though it is fully colonized it still has a higher chance of contaminating than your properly pasteurized bulk sub. This is especially true once we have broken the grains apart and made them slightly more vulnerable.


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InvisibleJitsu
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Re: Question about bulk substrates and keeping them sterile when you add your spawn. [Re: arp180]
    #9826522 - 02/19/09 01:25 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

arp180 said:
Quote:

fltdriver82 said:
Yeah did a little looking, after you mix your spawn with the sub, you put a layer of spawn over the top, acts as a contam barrier.




What your referring to is called a frosting your bulk sub with spawn and is a horrible idea. It is more correct to mix your bulk sub and spawn gently at a good ratio say 1:4, then when finished spread a super think layer of bulk sub over the top, not spawn.  grain spawn has such a high nutrition content that even though it is fully colonized it still has a higher chance of contaminating than your properly pasteurized bulk sub. This is especially true once we have broken the grains apart and made them slightly more vulnerable.





I don't think I have ever done it with grains but I have used grain spawn and then added a BRF "frsoting" and it worked out well.


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Invisiblearp180
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Re: Question about bulk substrates and keeping them sterile when you add your spawn. [Re: Jitsu]
    #9826546 - 02/19/09 01:30 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Not to say it 's a sure fire contam causer, but it's not the safest route and it's taking an unnecessary risk.


--------------------
"Given the choice between the experience of pain and nothing, I would choose pain."  William Faulkner

"That which exists without my knowledge exists without my consent."
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InvisibleJitsu
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Re: Question about bulk substrates and keeping them sterile when you add your spawn. [Re: arp180]
    #9826552 - 02/19/09 01:31 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

arp180 said:
Not to say it 's a sure fire contam causer, but it's not the safest route and it's taking an unnecessary risk.






agreed!


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OfflineBuckeye Oysters
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Re: Question about bulk substrates and keeping them sterile when you add your spawn. [Re: Jitsu]
    #9826597 - 02/19/09 01:40 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Jitsu said:
Yep a sterilized sub is the reason you are getting contamination.

Try pasteurizing at 160F for 30mins - 1 hour. Let your substrate cool then start layering in your monotub. There is no need to be sterile at all. Whenever I spawn my shit I do it in my room without a fan on and I am generally clean. I like to shower first and wash my hands with antibacterial soap.

The Myceliem has already established itself in your spawn, thus making is very resistant to contamination. Think of it like an immune system I suppose.




That is bad advice, sterility is ALWAYS an issue, even with pasteurization.  Yes, you can get away with using bare hands and an non sterile environment but you will have better successes putting rubber gloves on and using alcohol, wearing fresh laundered clothing, recently showered, brushed teeth or wearing a mask, etc...  Full colonization of spawn does not make it contam resistant.  Any high loads of mold spores that land directly on it will have a good chance of growing later, even after full colonization of the bulk. 

You can sterilize your bulk sub with bleach bath method if you do not want to pasteurize, but will have to use double the spawn rate to colonize fast enough.


--------------------
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Re: Question about bulk substrates and keeping them sterile when you add your spawn. [Re: Buckeye Oysters]
    #9826650 - 02/19/09 01:48 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Buckeye Oysters said:
Quote:

Jitsu said:
Yep a sterilized sub is the reason you are getting contamination.

Try pasteurizing at 160F for 30mins - 1 hour. Let your substrate cool then start layering in your monotub. There is no need to be sterile at all. Whenever I spawn my shit I do it in my room without a fan on and I am generally clean. I like to shower first and wash my hands with antibacterial soap.

The Myceliem has already established itself in your spawn, thus making is very resistant to contamination. Think of it like an immune system I suppose.




That is bad advice, sterility is ALWAYS an issue, even with pasteurization.  Yes, you can get away with using bare hands and an non sterile environment but you will have better successes putting rubber gloves on and using alcohol, wearing fresh laundered clothing, recently showered, brushed teeth or wearing a mask, etc...  Full colonization of spawn does not make it contam resistant.  Any high loads of mold spores that land directly on it will have a good chance of growing later, even after full colonization of the bulk. 

You can sterilize your bulk sub with bleach bath method if you do not want to pasteurize, but will have to use double the spawn rate to colonize fast enough.





I agree with you but I didn't tell him to do what I did, I simply stated how I go about it personally. I haven't ever had one of my grows contaminate until the 5th + flush BUT I am definitely not saying that it isn't possible nor could I be more sterile about my methods.

Yes the spawn can still get contaminated, I am sorry if what I said came out with myself implying the spawn CAN'T contaminate.


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Invisiblearp180
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Re: Question about bulk substrates and keeping them sterile when you add your spawn. [Re: Jitsu]
    #9826763 - 02/19/09 02:15 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

When spawning to to a properly pasteurized bulk sub, you don't need to be sterile, only clean


--------------------
"Given the choice between the experience of pain and nothing, I would choose pain."  William Faulkner

"That which exists without my knowledge exists without my consent."
-A quote from the Judge in the novel Blood Meridian; or the Evening Redness in the West by Cormac McCarthy

"Let there be light" My Quick Reference Guide to Lighting
My AutoMono (11oz First Flush)
My Monster Mushroom Mono (9.3oz First Flush)


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Invisiblebullfrog420
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Re: Question about bulk substrates and keeping them sterile when you add your spawn. [Re: arp180]
    #9826801 - 02/19/09 02:22 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

"bleach bath" new to me


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OfflineARvngr
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Re: Question about bulk substrates and keeping them sterile when you add your spawn. [Re: arp180]
    #9826820 - 02/19/09 02:26 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Well how should the bulk be protected/treated while the spawn is colonizing it?

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Re: Question about bulk substrates and keeping them sterile when you add your spawn. [Re: ARvngr]
    #9826857 - 02/19/09 02:32 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

by leaving it the fuck alone.


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Re: Question about bulk substrates and keeping them sterile when you add your spawn. [Re: skattman1982]
    #9827024 - 02/19/09 03:01 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Leave covered with small holes for GE.  Avoid peeking too often.  I generally don't touch spawn runs for a week, and then I'll crack the lid and check progress.


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Re: Question about bulk substrates and keeping them sterile when you add your spawn. [Re: archivist]
    #9827182 - 02/19/09 03:31 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

A bunch of contradicting answers


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Re: Question about bulk substrates and keeping them sterile when you add your spawn. [Re: kami]
    #9829042 - 02/19/09 07:50 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Thanks for the answers everybody. I'm very appreciative for all the replies.

I never realized that you didn't have to be sterile for the bulk substrate. Just clean.

So I can basically take the substrate, put it in a pan, add some water and then set the oven to 165, wait 30-60 minutes then it's good.

Sounds much easier. I also understand why the mycelium would beat any contamination at first. Simply because you add so much that any competing organisms don't have enough time to germinate, then spread around.

You all just made my brain not hurt as much because I thought simply putting the substrate in would allow contamination. Never realizing that a 1:5 or 1:4 ratio would induce a mycelium "explosion".

Thanks everybody. Much appreciated.


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Re: Question about bulk substrates and keeping them sterile when you add your spawn. [Re: mushroomhunter10]
    #9829083 - 02/19/09 07:56 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

mushroomhunter10 said:
Thanks for the answers everybody. I'm very appreciative for all the replies.

I never realized that you didn't have to be sterile for the bulk substrate. Just clean.

So I can basically take the substrate, put it in a pan, add some water and then set the oven to 165, wait 30-60 minutes then it's good.

Sounds much easier. I also understand why the mycelium would beat any contamination at first. Simply because you add so much that any competing organisms don't have enough time to germinate, then spread around.

You all just made my brain not hurt as much because I thought simply putting the substrate in would allow contamination. Never realizing that a 1:5 or 1:4 ratio would induce a mycelium "explosion".

Thanks everybody. Much appreciated.





yo man don't  get me wrong myceliem is still able to be contaminated but just less likely.


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