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 Magic_Hobo
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Registered: 10/07/08
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Last seen: 13 years, 8 months
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 Supercake Formula? 
#9814843 - 02/17/09 03:04 PM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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Ok, so I've read in several posts by eatyualive that he adds supercake formula to his bulk subs at the rate of 1/4cup per monotub and doubles or triples his yield.
At first I thought this was just too good to be true, but eats seems like a trustworthy guy and his grow logs and results are always awesome.
So, why isn't anyone else doing this? Is there something I am missing?
Also, I am gonna try a monotub with some PF mix in it and see if the yields improve decently, then try this supercake stuff. I would try it right away, but it's got a lot of crazy shit in it that I don't know where to find...
Thanks.
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Stimpy913
Happy Happy Joy Joy
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Re: Supercake Formula? [Re: Magic_Hobo]  1
#9814965 - 02/17/09 03:28 PM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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I don't doubt Eat's conclusion about the supercake formula doubling or tripling yields. His tubs could always use a weedwacker at harvest
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goose2r
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Re: Supercake Formula? [Re: Magic_Hobo]
#9815054 - 02/17/09 03:42 PM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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They only ingredient which I see in his mix which will offer that much yield increase is the cottonseed meal, corn meal, etc 'meals' he is using. Mycelium prefers N at a level of 2-2.5% and the greater the level of N (within reason) the greater possible yield...there is a positive correlation between level of N in compost (or h.poo or coir, etc) and mushroom yield.
Those meals also offer protein which is important for a good yield. Yield increases of 10% were seen when adding low amounts of meal at spawning (with much more contam). But adding oil (for lipids) encapsulated with a protein coat which is then denatured with formaldehyde at spawning offers yield increases of over 60% (ala "SpawnMate").
A more common and less contam prone method to add meals is to use the "supplement at casing" method. In that method you break up the bulk sub (once it's fully colonized) and then mix in cottonseed meal (for an example of a high N and high protein 'meal'), press the sub back together can case it.
Mixing in 'meals' during spawn run can/will create too much heat in the sub and leads to mycelium death or contam...that's why 'meals' are either added at casing OR denatured with formaldehyde (to prevent contam and lengthen release time) and then added at spawning. A common commercial supplement at spawning is to use oil encapsulated inside protein which is denatured with formaldehyde...
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Magic_Hobo
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Re: Supercake Formula? [Re: goose2r]
#9815094 - 02/17/09 03:48 PM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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Thanks for the info, bro.
I guess I'll get some cottonseed meal. Any idea where I could get that? Is there any way I could make some ghetto spawnmate, or is that impossible?
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goose2r
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Re: Supercake Formula? [Re: goose2r]
#9815211 - 02/17/09 04:10 PM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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BTW,
What is in his supercake mix? I remember reading it the other day but I can't find it now. I know it had kelp, nutritional yeast, meals, bee pollen, etc. From what I remember of his mix I would only use the kelp and meals (as I described). Also use oil at 10ml/pound at spawning...see the flax seed thread for info on oil I posted.
Forget about the bee pollen, it's just theory and not sound (e.g. increasing strength of mushrooms). Also drop the nutritional yeast, it's good for a DIY agar mix but kinda useless in a bulk sub with plenty of nutrition anyway.
MICROBES:
Dead microbes are used by mycelium for chitin which is used to form mycelial cell walls. Dead microbe bodies are also used as a source of protein and other nutrients for the mycelium. More dead microbes = Happiness! 
I would add microbes if you can. You can isolate LAB or buy 'compost starter' from a garden shop. If your using compost starter then moisten a pile of your bulk sub (coir, compost, h.poo, etc). To moisten the bulk sub it's best to use water mixed with un-sulfurated black strap molasses at 5-10ml/gallon and hydrolyzed fish at 5-10ml/gal. The molasses feeds bacteria and the fish feeds fungi. You don't need to add those items but they will increase the size of your microherd a good deal. You can find the molasses in ANY grocery store.
Mix the compost starter into the moistened bulk sub and let it sit for a few days so the microbes will awaken and multiply creating a large microherd. Then put the pile into a bucket and mix in water to remove the microbes from the pile. Stir the water/bulk sub mix hard for a few minutes (aka "CE" Compost Extract). Then use that microbe heavy water to moisten the rest of you bulk sub and mix in the pile from the bucket too.
Pasteurize at 140-160F for 2 hours to kill a very large amount of the microbes while still leaving enough alive to 'protect' the bulk sub until it's colonized by mycelium. In this way your final bulk sub will have large amounts of dead microbes for the myceilum to feast upon!
So I would add the following to your bulk sub, all of which is easy to find:
- gypsum at 2.5%
- worm castings at 10%
- chicken manure (composted) at 2%
- kelp meal at 1%
- vermiculite at 20%
- canola oil at 10ml/pound
- Lactic Acid Bacteria pure culture (DIY) at 1:100
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- AND/OR Activated "Effective Microorganisms" at 1:100
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- AND/OR bulk sub activated with 'compost stater'
HTH
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goose2r
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Re: Supercake Formula? [Re: Magic_Hobo]
#9815248 - 02/17/09 04:16 PM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Thanks for the info, bro.
I guess I'll get some cottonseed meal. Any idea where I could get that? Is there any way I could make some ghetto spawnmate, or is that impossible?
I would not use cottonseed meal (or any meal) unless you are an accomplished grower...too many things can go wrong. But if you want to try it anyway I say Go For It!
You can find cottonseed meal at most farm/feed stores. You could also use soybean meal, corn meal and maybe alfalfa meal in place of the cottonseed meal. It's just that cottonseed meal is the industry standard as far as I can tell.
There is no way you can make a ghetto spawnmate I know of. I am talking about the SpawnMate II (I think it's called), there is also another SpawnMate which uses denatured flax seed I think...but oil is better then seed (for lipids) at spawning.
If you add oil at spawning and supplement at casing you would come as close to a ghetto SpawnMate as you can IMO.
HTH
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Magic_Hobo
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Last seen: 13 years, 8 months
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Re: Supercake Formula? [Re: goose2r]
#9815289 - 02/17/09 04:22 PM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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What kind of oil, just like canola oil?
I read something about rapeseed in an old agar post. He said if you bake it and add it to your bulk it adds some beneficial oils.
Also thanks for the info about the microbes and compost starter, might have to give that one a try too.
EDIT: I don't know about any farm stores, is there anywhere else I can find cottonseed meal or corn meal?
Edited by Magic_Hobo (02/17/09 04:25 PM)
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Magic_Hobo
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Re: Supercake Formula? [Re: Magic_Hobo]
#9815450 - 02/17/09 04:49 PM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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Also, how about adding BRF to my substrate? People are always saying how nutritious it is...
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goose2r
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Re: Supercake Formula? [Re: Magic_Hobo]
#9815455 - 02/17/09 04:50 PM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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Canola oil is essentially the same as Rape seed oil, canola is a hybrid of rape breed in Canada.
Oil...Any of the following or mix them up to 10ml/pound:
- flaxseed oil
- canola oil
- rapeseed oil
- cottonseed oil
- coconut oil
- soybean oil (least preferable)
I use 3ml/pound of the following: coconut oil, canola oil and flax seed oil for a total of 9ml/pound. Once your bulk sub is moistened and fully mixed you then add the oil and mix it in.
Many garden stores and some hydro stores carry cottonseed meal, or you can order it from Peaceful Valley. Do you have a horse store anywhere? They should have it too.
Don't add BRF, you will most likely contam. The least you could use is straight coir if your in the city and have no access to h.poo, etc...all the extra stuff isn't really needed but can be very beneficial.
GL
Edited by goose2r (02/17/09 04:52 PM)
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Magic_Hobo
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Last seen: 13 years, 8 months
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Re: Supercake Formula? [Re: goose2r]
#9815551 - 02/17/09 05:04 PM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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I use coir/coffee grounds/verm.
Thanks for the info about the oils. So I mix them in after mixing the rest of the sub, but before pasteurization?
Have you noticed decent increases in yields since you started using the oils?
Could I supplement with BRF at casing, or is that just asking for contams too?
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Stimpy913
Happy Happy Joy Joy
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Last seen: 15 years, 3 days
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Re: Supercake Formula? [Re: Magic_Hobo]
#9818008 - 02/18/09 12:51 AM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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the best way to suppliment with BRF is to use BRF as spawn but use a close spawn:bulk ratio like 1:2. I can't think of another way to do it without an uncomfortable risk of contamination.
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Magic_Hobo
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Last seen: 13 years, 8 months
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Re: Supercake Formula? [Re: Stimpy913]
#9819756 - 02/18/09 12:31 PM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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So are you saying spawn my rye to BRF and then spawn that to bulk?
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Stimpy913
Happy Happy Joy Joy
Registered: 11/05/08
Posts: 765
Last seen: 15 years, 3 days
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Re: Supercake Formula? [Re: Magic_Hobo]
#9820097 - 02/18/09 01:50 PM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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im saying to put more brf in a bulk mixture, use colonized brf cakes for spawn and the more brf spawn you use the more brf will be in the substrate. The colonized BRF is much less likely to contam than BRF that is uncolonized, and its good spawn.
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goose2r
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Last seen: 15 years, 1 month
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Re: Supercake Formula? [Re: Magic_Hobo]
#9820111 - 02/18/09 01:53 PM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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Hey,
IMO don't use BRF as a bulk sub amendment; instead use worm castings, chicken manure, coffee grounds, etc. The benefits from 'meals' I mentioned are not found in BRF (to your old question). The benefits of meals are the N and protein...
BRF is good for cakes but I'd leave it out of your bulk unless it's your spawn as the other poster mentioned.
As to oil, yes, add it after the other sub and amendments are mixed and moistened. Then pasteurize.
Edited by goose2r (02/18/09 01:56 PM)
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