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OfflineCepheus
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Why do we take drugs for insights into ourselves?
    #9675425 - 01/25/09 10:38 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Surely all the insight we could ever need is right there inside of us (as in, 'I am' the insight, sort of thing). Why do we need to catalyse its elucidation with drugs?


--------------------
"I only ever hope to reach equilibrium, in Nature's matrix, in line with the meridian" ~ Jehst

:sun: "...and I know that I have to keep breathing, as tomorrow the sun will rise, who knows what the tide will bring?" :sun:

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OfflineDroneLore
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Re: Why do we take drugs for insights into ourselves? [Re: Cepheus]
    #9675495 - 01/25/09 10:49 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

They let you look at yourself from a different perspective. Under the influence of a drug, analyzing yourself is almost like being analyzed by a third party. They also have the potential to show you parts of your subconscious that may not be immediately apparent otherwise.

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InvisibleCognitive_Shift
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Re: Why do we take drugs for insights into ourselves? [Re: Cepheus]
    #9675517 - 01/25/09 10:52 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Cepheus said:
Surely all the insight we could ever need is right there inside of us (as in, 'I am' the insight, sort of thing). Why do we need to catalyse its elucidation with drugs?




The ego man.  It hides you from real reality.  I took LSD one time and had the most introspective self analysis ever.  I came into confrontations about aspects of my personality i was in denial about, and also saw what i truly love in life.  The ego hides you from the real unconscious you, and the only way of removing the ego and getting to know the real me, the only thing that has worked for me has been psychedelics.


--------------------
L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs

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Re: Why do we take drugs for insights into ourselves? [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #9675538 - 01/25/09 10:57 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

It's the same reason people meditate to get insight into themselves.  Surely there's other reasons to meditate, but eventually meditation breaks down your every day habits and every day way of looking at the world, giving you a unique opportunity to examine the world in a way you never have before.

Psychedelics do the same thing, just much quicker.

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OfflineCepheus
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Re: Why do we take drugs for insights into ourselves? [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #9675558 - 01/25/09 11:01 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

So taking a bunch of psychedelic drugs shows you 'real' reality?

What exactly is this insight we're all searching for?


--------------------
"I only ever hope to reach equilibrium, in Nature's matrix, in line with the meridian" ~ Jehst

:sun: "...and I know that I have to keep breathing, as tomorrow the sun will rise, who knows what the tide will bring?" :sun:

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OfflineCepheus
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Re: Why do we take drugs for insights into ourselves? [Re: Cepheus]
    #9675590 - 01/25/09 11:05 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Also, I thought the ego was the whole 'you' bit of the complex organic machine that I am (which is why in those deep psychedelic states you reach a stateless state of everything and nothing). How can the ego be an abstraction from what I really am?


--------------------
"I only ever hope to reach equilibrium, in Nature's matrix, in line with the meridian" ~ Jehst

:sun: "...and I know that I have to keep breathing, as tomorrow the sun will rise, who knows what the tide will bring?" :sun:

Free Spore Ring Europe
Send any spare spore prints you might have and help the distribution :grin:

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InvisibleCognitive_Shift
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Re: Why do we take drugs for insights into ourselves? [Re: Cepheus]
    #9675592 - 01/25/09 11:05 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Cepheus said:
So taking a bunch of psychedelic drugs shows you 'real' reality?

What exactly is this insight we're all searching for?




Humans are very curious, and we want to find out whats the "whole point" of our existence.  What are we really.  And IMO i think that psychedelic drugs that remove the ego and bring out the unconscious mind is bringing out a more unbiased form of your.  This is all IMO.


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Offlinepfxtc
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Re: Why do we take drugs for insights into ourselves? [Re: Cepheus]
    #9675609 - 01/25/09 11:07 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

To be honest,

I've had one trip (that I've referred to a ton of times)

last friday,

and ever since,

the whole world is different for some reason.

ever since last friday each minute is literally getting better and better, i've LEARNED how to deal with my problems.

i don't understand why or how, but I feel like a new person, honestly.


--------------------

koods said:
Young male going by the name "Bassfreak" entered Worcester General complaining of a sharp pain in his buttock region after attending EDM event. Attending physician considered a possible diagnosis of acute rave anus, but upon further investigation it was determined there was nothing cute about patient's anus.

Life-long trip report

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Offlinelobotomix
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Re: Why do we take drugs for insights into ourselves? [Re: Cepheus]
    #9675619 - 01/25/09 11:09 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

does everyone have the capacity to reach full insight into oneself,
without entheogenic drugs?

most people lack patience, courage, faith...
and are perhaps too stuck in their old patterns to ever get out of them,
without a little bit of help.

i think psychedelics may have the potential to help us free ourselves
from the continuously repeating patterns that keep us stuck in our mind.

they don't do all the work, but they may help to serve as some sort of oil...
to help a rusted mind get looser.



i'm not sure if it's possible to keep enlightenment
attained through psychedelic sessions,
some say it's not possible... i'm not yet convinced that that would be true.

Edited by lobotomix (01/25/09 11:12 AM)

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OfflineRocker232
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Re: Why do we take drugs for insights into ourselves? [Re: Cepheus]
    #9675625 - 01/25/09 11:10 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Cepheus said:
Also, I thought the ego was the whole 'you' bit of the complex organic machine that I am (which is why in those deep psychedelic states you reach a stateless state of everything and nothing). How can the ego be an abstraction from what I really am?




The ego does whatever anything does, it protects itself. Protection is a double-edged sword though, its great to have all the bad things blocked out for us, but does it really help us? Its very hard to see through the armor that is your ego without the use of an outside instrument, whether it be drugs, meditation or even a friend telling you whats "really" up.

Some people like to have the armor taken off, others don't. I myself think there is no greater purpose than bettering yourself and the only way to do that is to see your own faults.


--------------------
With Allure I Look to the Sky With Awakened Eyes

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OfflineCepheus
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Re: Why do we take drugs for insights into ourselves? [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #9675644 - 01/25/09 11:13 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

I understand and agree with what you're saying, but that's not really what I was driving at. Why are these 'secrets' locked up to begin with? Why do we require a key (whether it be meditation or some kind of drug) in order to truly know 'ourselves'.

What does it mean to know yourself?

I'm not trolling, I'm genuinely interested on what people have to say on these matters :smile:.


--------------------
"I only ever hope to reach equilibrium, in Nature's matrix, in line with the meridian" ~ Jehst

:sun: "...and I know that I have to keep breathing, as tomorrow the sun will rise, who knows what the tide will bring?" :sun:

Free Spore Ring Europe
Send any spare spore prints you might have and help the distribution :grin:

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Offlinelibertaire
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Re: Why do we take drugs for insights into ourselves? [Re: Cepheus]
    #9675675 - 01/25/09 11:18 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Our minds sometimes (not always) require a key to truly know itself because it locks itself up in it's daily rituals.  It's the nature of the way the mind tends to work.  We start thinking one way without looking back and eventually, whether that way is right or not, that way becomes how we see the world.  Taking psychedelics/meditating undoes all this, allowing us to take a step back and rethink it all.

I can't answer your second question because I'm not there yet.

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OfflinePOWAtrippinDiscord
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Re: Why do we take drugs for insights into ourselves? [Re: Cepheus]
    #9675690 - 01/25/09 11:21 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Some people don't need drugs to do this at all, they are just born that way.

You know some natural born trippers, people that just always understood.

We require a key because the brain reacts the same way to a person or a picture of a person.  The mind is on another level other than the physical.  We live in a world where we only really percieve our own thoughts on the physical world around us.  It is hard to comprehend things not physical having no real tools to percieve it or ever having any tangible concrete fact about it.


--------------------
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OfflineRocker232
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Re: Why do we take drugs for insights into ourselves? [Re: Cepheus]
    #9675715 - 01/25/09 11:24 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Cepheus said:
I understand and agree with what you're saying, but that's not really what I was driving at. Why are these 'secrets' locked up to begin with? Why do we require a key (whether it be meditation or some kind of drug) in order to truly know 'ourselves'.

What does it mean to know yourself?

I'm not trolling, I'm genuinely interested on what people have to say on these matters :smile:.




I don't understand what you mean by "secrets". There is no "secrets" to discover, all you "discover" by taking a psychedelic journey is a different perspective. That's what it all comes down to, how you see the world. The sky looks different to me now since taking mushrooms for the first time, but its the same sky, I just have a better appreciation for it.

The world is a simple place, for the most part everything follows a pattern and everything is connected in some fashion. All tripping does it show you an easier route to "enlightenment". The only problem I have with them as that its hard to turn away from them when looking for answers. I've experienced things that some Monks spend lifetimes trying to achieve, that's an incredibly intense feat.

Drugs aren't needed to reach enlightenment, but if you want a third eye there is no easier path to walk.


--------------------
With Allure I Look to the Sky With Awakened Eyes

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OfflineTheMerryGangster
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Re: Why do we take drugs for insights into ourselves? [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #9675725 - 01/25/09 11:26 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Cognitive_Shift said:
Quote:

Cepheus said:
Surely all the insight we could ever need is right there inside of us (as in, 'I am' the insight, sort of thing). Why do we need to catalyse its elucidation with drugs?




The ego man.  It hides you from real reality.  I took LSD one time and had the most introspective self analysis ever.  I came into confrontations about aspects of my personality i was in denial about, and also saw what i truly love in life.  The ego hides you from the real unconscious you, and the only way of removing the ego and getting to know the real me, the only thing that has worked for me has been psychedelics.




I feel the same way. I mean I've had strong introspection without psychedelics but they definitely make these lessons stick, and without the ego you are truly free to view your behavior without bias and there is no trying to defend what you to do (that is wrong or bad), to yourself.


--------------------
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OfflineCepheus
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Re: Why do we take drugs for insights into ourselves? [Re: libertaire]
    #9675748 - 01/25/09 11:28 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Doesn't this imply that we don't know who we are from the begining? When we're first born and completely uninfluenced by anything, are we enlightened?

Why would a being involved in daily rituals not know itself? Why would a particularly following a particular regime or ideology prevent us from know who we are?


--------------------
"I only ever hope to reach equilibrium, in Nature's matrix, in line with the meridian" ~ Jehst

:sun: "...and I know that I have to keep breathing, as tomorrow the sun will rise, who knows what the tide will bring?" :sun:

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OfflineFreedom
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Re: Why do we take drugs for insights into ourselves? [Re: Cepheus]
    #9675891 - 01/25/09 11:51 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Why would a being involved in daily rituals not know itself? Why would a particularly following a particular regime or ideology prevent us from know who we are?



fear and desire stuff warps us, spins us around, twists us, and we use ignorance to hide what's so easy to forget.

then we get wrapped up more in models and ideals and ideas.

it happens cause it can, so it does.

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OfflineRocker232
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Re: Why do we take drugs for insights into ourselves? [Re: Cepheus]
    #9675909 - 01/25/09 11:53 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Cepheus said:
Doesn't this imply that we don't know who we are from the begining? When we're first born and completely uninfluenced by anything, are we enlightened?

Why would a being involved in daily rituals not know itself? Why would a particularly following a particular regime or ideology prevent us from know who we are?




I'm still unsure of what you are asking. Why do you need the answers to these questions? Have you not seen for yourself the dissipation of the ego? And I fail to see how an infant is "enlightened". An infant knows nothing about the world, nor does it even understand the world exists. To a baby the only thing that matters it itself and making sure its own needs are meant. This is the OPPOSITE of enlightenment. The problem with society is that people are self-serving and that they do not see their own faults. If people were more in tune with who they really are things like racism and prejudice would not exist. It is only after seeing yourself from another perspective that your flaws can truly come out.

Marijuana has always done this for me as well though, I consider the first time I got high to be the first time my third eye "opened". I do agree with your first sentence though, we do not know who we are from the beginning, hell some people will never know who they are and how they come off to the rest of the world.


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OfflineGrapefruit
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Re: Why do we take drugs for insights into ourselves? [Re: Cepheus]
    #9675913 - 01/25/09 11:54 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

IME Psychedelics simply started me on the path to confronting who i am. Most of my actual seeing of the negative aspects of me i was in denial of has been done in sober waking life. Psychedelics can give you the motivation to change.


--------------------
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Offlinepfxtc
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Re: Why do we take drugs for insights into ourselves? [Re: POWAtrippin]
    #9675922 - 01/25/09 11:55 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

There's some people through history that just seem so damn insightful and understand, like Greed is talking about,

but those were different times,

for some reason I think that psychedelics simplify things and allow us to analyze things at their cores without having to deal with all the outside noise.

hope that makes sense.


--------------------

koods said:
Young male going by the name "Bassfreak" entered Worcester General complaining of a sharp pain in his buttock region after attending EDM event. Attending physician considered a possible diagnosis of acute rave anus, but upon further investigation it was determined there was nothing cute about patient's anus.

Life-long trip report

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