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OfflineNeuron
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The digression of the Human Species
    #9654172 - 01/21/09 06:37 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Im writing this in an area that is not my home, so perhaps this will not come out as perfect as I had thought in my minds eye last night(when it was supposed to be written). This version may be a bit more condensed.

Humans were designed to live in a competitive environment. Technically, there are not supposed to be hospitals, vaccines, medicines, and such readily available food(restaurants/markets/any venue where food can be purchased.)

But it is not the case, obviously. We have doctors to prescribe us to get corrective vision if we have poor eyesight, so having good eyesight gives us no selective advantage to prosper over people with bad vision. Therefore, using my vision example, bad genes can and is being passed down from generation to generation.

Statistically speaking, lower income/education families tend to have more children than do upper class/higher education families. So again, this is another disadvantage to the "progression of the human", in my eyes. I once again recently had another conversation with my Neuroscience teacher, and mentioned this. He defined progression as "change", while I see "progression" more along the lines of advancement. When I think of progression, I think of, for example; a species becoming more intelligent, more physically fit, more strategic--or better in some way.

With the obesity rate over 60% in adults; I only see the majority of humans going in a downward spiral. Obviously there can only be advancements in technology, but I am talking about society as a whole. Its a bit worrisome. In what possible ways can we evolve, when there really is no selective advantage for evolution?

For any who care to flame me, perhaps itd be more constructive to share your views versus shooting down mine. =)


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Offlinepfxtc
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Re: The digression of the Human Species [Re: Neuron]
    #9654265 - 01/21/09 06:49 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Neuron said:
Im writing this in an area that is not my home, so perhaps this will not come out as perfect as I had thought in my minds eye last night(when it was supposed to be written). This version may be a bit more condensed.

Humans were designed to live in a competitive environment. Technically, there are not supposed to be hospitals, vaccines, medicines, and such readily available food(restaurants/markets/any venue where food can be purchased.)

But it is not the case, obviously. We have doctors to prescribe us to get corrective vision if we have poor eyesight, so having good eyesight gives us no selective advantage to prosper over people with bad vision. Therefore, using my vision example, bad genes can and is being passed down from generation to generation.

Statistically speaking, lower income/education families tend to have more children than do upper class/higher education families. So again, this is another disadvantage to the "progression of the human", in my eyes. I once again recently had another conversation with my Neuroscience teacher, and mentioned this. He defined progression as "change", while I see "progression" more along the lines of advancement. When I think of progression, I think of, for example; a species becoming more intelligent, more physically fit, more strategic--or better in some way.

With the obesity rate over 60% in adults; I only see the majority of humans going in a downward spiral. Obviously there can only be advancements in technology, but I am talking about society as a whole. Its a bit worrisome. In what possible ways can we evolve, when there really is no selective advantage for evolution?

For any who care to flame me, perhaps itd be more constructive to share your views versus shooting down mine. =)




So you recommend that we don't use our brains and live like cavemen?

No.

I agree with the last paragraph mostly,

but I think that technology is just making people dumber,

there's still plenty of smart people, the things they design are just making the stupid people more lazy.

I don't think that killing off people with bad eyesight will speed up the evolutionary timeline at all though.


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koods said:
Young male going by the name "Bassfreak" entered Worcester General complaining of a sharp pain in his buttock region after attending EDM event. Attending physician considered a possible diagnosis of acute rave anus, but upon further investigation it was determined there was nothing cute about patient's anus.

Life-long trip report

Edited by pfxtc (01/21/09 06:51 PM)

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OfflineNeuron
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Re: The digression of the Human Species [Re: pfxtc]
    #9654307 - 01/21/09 06:54 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Have you seen my avatar?

My point is that hospitals/readily accessible food, things we think of as luxuries--are truly inhibiting evolution.

I'd be very interested to hear in someone shedding a different perspective on this, hopefully without the drama. I see in a way how intelligence can play as a selective advantage in the corporate world; but there is no human need to hold a white collar job. Therefore, intelligence really does not play a selective advantage= then again we would have to define intelligent and unintelligent.

I'm off to class, I'll check this thread when I get home.


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OfflineNeuron
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Re: The digression of the Human Species [Re: Neuron]
    #9654331 - 01/21/09 06:58 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Ahh, I see you have edited your post within the last minute.

I was just using bad vision; as a mere example of how having "good genes" provides no selective advantage for the human species. Nor, was I talking about eliminating people with bad genes, nature is "supposed" to to that itself. The slow lions lose, the fast lions win. Obviously not factoring "luck" in the picture.

Of course there are still very intelligent people; but the intelligent are and will become more and more of a minority with the way things are going(against natural selection/against survival of the fittest). There is no such thing as "survival of the fittest" when it comes to humans. Again, REFERRING to society-not prison.


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OfflineNeuron
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Re: The digression of the Human Species [Re: Neuron]
    #9654344 - 01/21/09 06:59 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

If anyone who has anything to stay that will stimulate constructive discussion, please post.

pfxtc, go have an argument with Noteworthy if your desire for conflict is that strong.

Cheers!


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Offlinepfxtc
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Re: The digression of the Human Species [Re: Neuron]
    #9654357 - 01/21/09 07:02 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Just because I disagree with your argument makes my standpoint null?

interesting.

"Survival of the Fittest" is an outdated phrase, just like the word "drug".

Maybe it applies to animals,

but guess who is at the top of the foodchain?

Humans change, get used to it.


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koods said:
Young male going by the name "Bassfreak" entered Worcester General complaining of a sharp pain in his buttock region after attending EDM event. Attending physician considered a possible diagnosis of acute rave anus, but upon further investigation it was determined there was nothing cute about patient's anus.

Life-long trip report

Edited by pfxtc (01/21/09 07:05 PM)

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OfflineDesos
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Re: The digression of the Human Species [Re: pfxtc]
    #9654558 - 01/21/09 07:32 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

natural selection, survival of the fittest, are systems based through fear.  fear drives us to survive.  fear of death, fear of predation, fear of starvation.  fear motivates us.  fear kills us, fear develops us.

but then something amazing happened.

there came to be more than fear: love.

we advanced -- somewhat -- beyond that primitive system of natural selection.  we were able to solidify our needs, to advance beyond fear.  we began to live more and more through love.  now instead of just letting others die we reach out and a hand and help them, because of love.  we are by no means there all the way, we are only at the beginning.  but we are finally getting there.

our evolution no longer has to be based through natural selection and fear, it can now be based through love.  it is no longer a physical evolution, but a spiritual evolution. :peace:


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I am Jack's inflamed sense of rejection.

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OfflineJohnP
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Re: The digression of the Human Species [Re: Desos]
    #9654686 - 01/21/09 07:51 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

We seek to transcend... What is it we seek to transcend? We have transcended many things and won't ever stop until we hit that point of ultimate understanding... Than I would assume our job than would be to forget everything we ever learned so we can restart and live it all over again fresh and new, day after day, for all of eternity.

Exactly Desos, The rest of our evolution is love based... No longer a fear based game.

We are going back home to mother from here on out. We have learned enough from fear to teach us that fear is a valuable tool in teaching us how not to love.

Now our job is to refine the best way to love.

Edited by JohnP (01/21/09 08:01 PM)

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OfflineJohnP
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Re: The digression of the Human Species [Re: JohnP]
    #9654726 - 01/21/09 07:57 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Why don't we compete in this game together, like we always have been, and always should be. Together. Love brings us together, and we are coming together!

Why do we want to understand? Why do we want to get along? So we can come together.

Name anything... Gravity brings us together... Everything is already together, our job is to ellucidate that, and break through the illusion of time and separateness.

Quantum physics states that all matter is simultaneously ever instantly connected with every other bit of energy / matter in existence. Lookup nonlocality for that bit... How does that apply to us? And humanity? and our evolution? Our consciousness seeking to fully ellucidate that interconnectedness of all being.

What do you mean we shouldn't have doctors and grocery stores to keep us going, to transcend those things we have already transcended and integrated into ever more efficient forms of delivery? Humanity sure is a Bombing Delivery for that 'matter' ... No pun intended.

Edited by JohnP (01/21/09 08:03 PM)

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Offlinemaysrome
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Re: The digression of the Human Species [Re: Desos]
    #9654744 - 01/21/09 08:02 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

I'm going to say that on a more broad view I agree with Desos's general thoughts.

Let's say that evolution carried us so far, but whenever man gained his intelligence down the line, he began to think more like a human and less like an animal simply trying to survive.

I think it was only supposed to go so far down the line before it finally stopped. However, will the human race evolve in a different form? We may never know. I actually don't even confess to believe the theory of evolution, I'm just open to many different ideas on the subject.


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Es muss sein?!

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OfflineBeege
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Re: The digression of the Human Species [Re: JohnP]
    #9654753 - 01/21/09 08:04 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Though physically our bodies are deprived of natural selection, it is our minds that will endure and evolve.

Meaning as long as we remain innovative and pride ourselves on being scientific and resourceful we can counter genetic abnormalities that do not benefit the species with technology and therefor retain the faculties at our disposal to explore the stars.


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Offlinecsrpj
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Re: The digression of the Human Species [Re: Beege]
    #9654970 - 01/21/09 08:42 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

true, in some ways, technology hinders the natural path of evolution. but, in some ways, it can be beneficial in the regard we spoke of. for example, there are highly intelligent people who are physically very weak who would die out naturally. but with technology to keep them alive, they could live to create great ideas/innovations to help the human race as a collective. stephen hawking?

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Invisible5HR00M5N4K3
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Re: The digression of the Human Species [Re: csrpj]
    #9655035 - 01/21/09 08:51 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)


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Offlineskaterickets
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Re: The digression of the Human Species [Re: Neuron]
    #9655092 - 01/21/09 09:01 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

The development of medicine has helped responsible, society-contributing humans save lives, but also become a third leg, a reliance, for people who choose to be unhealthy. Breaking evolution is what makes humans, humans, but has also made humans, animals.

It's the unhealthy people who choose too pass their genes and lifestyle to children that will downgrade society.


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Invisible5HR00M5N4K3
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Re: The digression of the Human Species *DELETED* [Re: 5HR00M5N4K3]
    #9655095 - 01/21/09 09:01 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Post deleted by Veritas

Reason for deletion: No personal attacks in P&S.


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Offlinekrypto2000
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Re: The digression of the Human Species [Re: 5HR00M5N4K3]
    #9655111 - 01/21/09 09:03 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

There's more ways to evolve than just physically. We can evolve metaphysically. We can evolve our perspective on the world and make the bad look good. This evolution is not carried in our genes but in our society, in our culture. There is no defined goal in life.

Maybe if you look at the past it appears to be to be the strongest, fastest, longest living, etc. I see it in the present as being content and happy as I possibly can, getting the most out of everything I do. I've learned to do that, and through that comes lots of wisdom. I don't question many things I would otherwise. Maybe there's a scope of evolution you're missing.

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Offlinepfxtc
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Re: The digression of the Human Species [Re: 5HR00M5N4K3]
    #9655211 - 01/21/09 09:20 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

5HR00M5N4K3 said:
btw,

'the intellectual' is a bit, oh, pretentious?  better to demonstrate your intelligence rather than declare it.  have you ever looked at a guy/girl/whatever-you-like and thought nothing of them, but then happened to notice their tshirt that says 'HOT STUFF' or 'BABE MAGNET' on it, and then suddenly changed your mind and been like 'woah, i didn't notice it before, but s/he's a total babe!'  doubtful.




:thumbup:

and just throwing this out there:

why do I need to be big and muscular and hunt for my prey when I can grab a gun and kill something?

humans evolve through our minds, not through our physics.

leave that to the fish, they got some catching up to do.


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koods said:
Young male going by the name "Bassfreak" entered Worcester General complaining of a sharp pain in his buttock region after attending EDM event. Attending physician considered a possible diagnosis of acute rave anus, but upon further investigation it was determined there was nothing cute about patient's anus.

Life-long trip report

Edited by pfxtc (01/21/09 09:21 PM)

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Offlineronjohn7779
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Re: The digression of the Human Species [Re: pfxtc]
    #9655247 - 01/21/09 09:26 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

There is a reason why we are on the top of the food chain...its from the fact we're smart. So smart we don't need to hunt we can just drive up to a window and get food. Pretty bad ass if you ask me. We also have guns and body armor so it's no shock to me that were terribly out matched by most animals without those items. Also from our very start humans and our ancestors fought day in and day out for their lives because they weren't a match for most animals. Rather than our bodies develop strange new physical traits to fend off enemies our minds' because our ultimate weapon. It's no shock to me that we have such great weapons of mass destruction because of the facts we've developed such lethal thoughts over the ages. Its pretty cool in some respects.


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"Lennox Lewis, I'm coming for you man. My style is impetuous. My defense is impregnable, and I'm just ferocious. I want your heart. I want to eat his children. Praise be to Allah!" An American Hero Iron Mike!

Edited by ronjohn7779 (01/21/09 09:27 PM)

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Offlineyageman
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Re: The digression of the Human Species [Re: ronjohn7779]
    #9655451 - 01/21/09 09:58 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

We are evolving as a very conscious species.

That includes technology.

  Your kids will have corn and potatoes raining down on them from ufos after you are dead.
We will have expanded so greatly, that your idea wont mean shit.
lol

  People have lots of kids and their kids have kids.
  What better time to have so many fucking people running around with consciousnesses.

Im just hopeful.

So many people.

The caveman conversion is not only silly, but is not compatible with the the reality that the existance of earthly consciousness has created for its self.

We break shit that is hard to repair.
Then we try to fix it with technology.

Too many people.

We cant all be fishermen.

Thus it stays as it is.

Slight variations.  Baby steps.

To the same place but a more healthy place.

Thats how it will go down, if ever.


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[quote]Me_Roy said:
You moron. Material is material is material.  No 'thing' fixes any situation.  If anything were so simple we would be living in a much better world.[/quote] <-----the dumbest thing I have ever read in my life.
Thanks shroomery.

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Offlinepfxtc
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Re: The digression of the Human Species [Re: yageman]
    #9655525 - 01/21/09 10:09 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

yageman

i can never get over

how you talk

like this,

but it's ok, bec

ause

i do

..

it,

too

like

will_i_am                                s?

hatner.


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koods said:
Young male going by the name "Bassfreak" entered Worcester General complaining of a sharp pain in his buttock region after attending EDM event. Attending physician considered a possible diagnosis of acute rave anus, but upon further investigation it was determined there was nothing cute about patient's anus.

Life-long trip report

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