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Offlinejazzillion
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Is Shock Value a psychedelic experience?
    #9648660 - 01/20/09 08:51 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Sometimes on psychedelics I get reduced down to these everything and nothing mentalities where reality seems like nothing but 1s and 0s, absolute constants, and absolute negatives.  I'd say it's a rather zen way of thinking when it boils down to it.

So then I was thinking about gore, ultra-violence, and shocking material (pics, movies, real world experiences), and thinking about how they fit into the psychedelic realm of things.  I think it has to do with nature as a whole, and that no pleasure comes without some suffering...that maybe to attain some sense of enlightenment you have to recognize all the suffering and hurt as well as all the love and splendors, and that as long as there is both, we have to acknowledge both to understand our place in it all.

It's not a coincidence that if you find yourself in OTD on a magic mushroom website you will come across shocking and sometimes gory images.  It's that constant reminder of the brutality of the universe and our significance and insignificance as a part of it, and those that can laugh in the face of it all.

The idea that gore/shock is somehow psychedelic also corresponds to the concept of ego loss and breaking yourself down to become greater or stronger as a whole.  The more you are exposed to the harsh reminders of nature, the more you can understand its necessity, as well as the nature of nature's actions.  Gruesome?  Grotesque?  Sure.  Unnatural?  Quite the contrary.

Think of Clock Work Orange and it's place in the psychedelic mentality. Or social web sites like 4chan, where pornography and gore is displayed simultaneously for the viewer to observe and interpret.  How about people trying to achieve an altered consciousness stimulus through extreme body modification?  With this I say everything has it's place, and that place is always moderate, but it still has its place.

Wrapping up this extrapolated concept, I pose another:  Anything that breaks down the ego (via lack of comfort)  and reconstitutes it with greater complexity on the other side, can be considered psychedelic.


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"Consciousness is the Universe recognizing itself." Once we perceive that everything is conscious we can then ask, "How does consciousness take all these varied forms?" - The Primacy of Consciousness by Peter Russell

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OfflineAnxietyDrive
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Re: Is Shock Value a psychedelic experience? [Re: jazzillion]
    #9648752 - 01/20/09 09:05 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

This raised an eyebrow because the general prevalence of blood, gore, dismemberment, decapitation, and brutal death is a common theme in spiritual mythology: Jesus, Balder, Dionysus, Innanda, and countless more where brutally tormented and slain only to be renewed and reborn. The cyclical concept of birth, death, and resurrection may play a pivotal role in giving us some insight into our thirst for blood and our yearning for depictions of death.

Further more, in shamanic a initiation proper, the theme of agonizing torment, dismemberment, and removal of bodily organs are what preclude spiritual awakening, and the granting of magico-religious powers to a shaman. What really astounds me about shamanism is the global distribution of its institute: no other religion, in a loose form of the word, has been so widespread that it has dotted the globe at every moment through space and time.

As for your last question, i think any kind of experience that creates a spiritual revelation or mystical epiphany can be classified as psychedelic, or "mind-manifesting."


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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: Is Shock Value a psychedelic experience? [Re: jazzillion]
    #9649686 - 01/20/09 11:32 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

It seems to me that one is given two options once one realizes the nature of the imprisonment of your consciousness in this mortal flesh along with a life inherently predisposed towards suffering.  By this I mean not only in the observational Buddha-esque sense, but also purely in behavioral terms; organisms generally respond much better to pain stimuli than to pleasure stimuli, and thus our sum totalle of sensations seems to be inherently skewed towards misery than towards bliss.  The extrapolation of this realization to all organisms (and perhaps to the entire Universe if one finds panpsychism particularly compelling) thus seems to be at the heart of psychedelic philosophy.

The first option after this realization is to spread compassion.  Other conscious, aware beings (although perhaps not to the same degree as we humans, but asserting this as a fact is pure species centrism) are also trapped by pure chance or callous destiny to be born into a world that leaves them with nothing but inevitable death and a world where great ignorance and evil runs amuck.  What choice have we but to spread tenderness and happiness to other souls similarly chained to materialistic bondage as we are?

The second option, however, is to recognize this, and to subsequently take pleasure in inflicting unwarranted suffering upon others for no other reason than the sheer joy of exerting power over other beings.  Datura for me seems to be the epitome of that darker side of life that you describe in this way.

In McKenna's words: "I don't know what astronomical sign you have to be to make your peace with that stuff, but I find it really peculiar and menacing.  It's about magic, which is about power and control and usually sexuality in some invasive and dominator application."


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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OfflineAnxietyDrive
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Re: Is Shock Value a psychedelic experience? [Re: deCypher]
    #9649700 - 01/20/09 11:36 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

deCypher said:
It seems to me that one is given two options once one realizes the nature of the imprisonment of your consciousness in this mortal flesh along with a life inherently predisposed towards suffering.  By this I mean not only in the observational Buddha-esque sense, but also purely in behavioral terms; organisms generally respond much better to pain stimuli than to pleasure stimuli, and thus our sum totalle of sensations seems to be inherently skewed towards misery than towards bliss.  The extrapolation of this realization to all organisms (and perhaps to the entire Universe if one finds panpsychism particularly compelling) thus seems to be at the heart of psychedelic philosophy.

The first option after this realization is to spread compassion.  Other conscious, aware beings (although perhaps not to the same degree as we humans, but asserting this as a fact is pure species centrism) are also trapped by pure chance or callous destiny to be born into a world that leaves them with nothing but inevitable death and a world where great ignorance and evil runs amuck.  What choice have we but to spread tenderness and happiness to other souls similarly chained to materialistic bondage as we are?

The second option, however, is to recognize this, and to subsequently take pleasure in inflicting unwarranted suffering upon others for no other reason than the sheer joy of exerting power over other beings.  Datura for me seems to be the epitome of that darker side of life that you describe in this way.

In McKenna's words: "I don't know what astronomical sign you have to be to make your peace with that stuff, but I find it really peculiar and menacing.  It's about magic, which is about power and control and usually sexuality in some invasive and dominator application."




I will not lie, i am absolutely terrified with the prospect of using datura.


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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: Is Shock Value a psychedelic experience? [Re: AnxietyDrive]
    #9649711 - 01/20/09 11:40 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

I remember once seeing a photo of a six or seven year old South American kid holding his favorite entheogen.

It was Brugmansia.


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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OfflineAnxietyDrive
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Re: Is Shock Value a psychedelic experience? [Re: deCypher]
    #9649753 - 01/20/09 11:50 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

deCypher said:
I remember once seeing a photo of a six or seven year old South American kid holding his favorite entheogen.

It was Brugmansia.




Deliriants in general may not be for me. Tell me, how did you ingest it properly without ending up in the grave?


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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: Is Shock Value a psychedelic experience? [Re: AnxietyDrive]
    #9649762 - 01/20/09 11:52 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Racemization of the alkaloids to reduce peripheral side effects, starting with low doses and progressively working up, and spacing out time between use.

My journal has a few trip reports from the stuff, but this is getting off topic.  :grin:


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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InvisibleApollyphelion
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Registered: 03/15/07
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Re: Is Shock Value a psychedelic experience? [Re: jazzillion]
    #9650250 - 01/21/09 03:54 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Well in a way yes,
because similarities between emotion
and tripping exist
so if one reacts heavily to
things such as gore, shock, ect...
it in a way has induced a "trip"

Although this can be good for the ego
there has to be a certain maturity
of the time and place for that
sort of thing, as well as a keen
eye for having all the right reactions
(laugh at zombies but not at refugees)

Either way, with care and gentleness
the horrific side of life can be embraced
and pay attention to in ways that consider
societal and individual growth.
be Safe. Be fun. Be respectful.


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