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OfflineFreedom
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Cakes turned blue after cold shocking - why?
    #9502715 - 12/27/08 02:38 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

noob here,

used pf tek, equal parts brf, verm and water. jars were boiled for 1.5 hours. seemed like the jars were on the verge of being too wet, but being unsure I inoculated them anyway. A few of them got some blue, so I took them out of the incubation chamber. After three weeks four jars were fully colonized. I let them sit in there two extra weeks to be fully fully colonized.

yesterday I dunked them in water and put in the fridge overnight.

this morning they were all blue!

I was like 'whoa'

I rolled 'em in verm and put in fruiting chamber.

any thoughts? searching the archive doesn't seem to help with this one.

thanks

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OfflineRasJeph
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Re: Cakes turned blue after cold shocking - why? [Re: Freedom]
    #9502737 - 12/27/08 02:42 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Sounds like bruising to me. Its a good thing (to a degree, it shows the cakes are good and active :smile:)

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Re: Cakes turned blue after cold shocking - why? [Re: RasJeph]
    #9502768 - 12/27/08 02:47 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

my first cakes had couple of blue spots but not all over and they were fine.


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Invisibledoze
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Re: Cakes turned blue after cold shocking - why? [Re: artizen]
    #9502778 - 12/27/08 02:49 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

because your not supposed to cold shock them. cubenis is a tropical spcies so there is no need to cold shock to initiate pinning. its just bruising though.


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OfflineFreedom
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Re: Cakes turned blue after cold shocking - why? [Re: artizen]
    #9502788 - 12/27/08 02:51 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

hey that's good to hear

the strange thing is i thought they were supposed to turn blue from being dry, or from mechanical damage.

I don't think I manhandled them that bad?

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Invisibledoze
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Re: Cakes turned blue after cold shocking - why? [Re: Freedom]
    #9502807 - 12/27/08 02:55 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

it can also bruise from that but my guess is that they got too cold.


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OfflineBaKeRx561x420
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Re: Cakes turned blue after cold shocking - why? [Re: doze]
    #9502879 - 12/27/08 03:04 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Yes indeed you could use some help.

Your not suppose to use equal parts when making the substrate. Use 2-1-1 verm/ water/ BRF
Thats why your jars looked too wet, because they were.

Don't use a "incubation chamber", room temp on a shelf is the best for colonizing jars.

Was your mycelium  bruising while they were still in the the jars? Please elaborate.

Only let jars consolidate for one extra week not 2 weeks.

Don't dunk P.cubensis cakes in the fridge, cubes are a tropical species and dunking in the fridge will slow the pinning process.


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Edited by BaKeRx561x420 (12/27/08 03:12 PM)

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OfflineBuckeye Oysters
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Re: Cakes turned blue after cold shocking - why? [Re: BaKeRx561x420]
    #9502935 - 12/27/08 03:13 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Dunking in the fridge will not slow things down, lest an hour or 2 for the cake to come back up to room temp, it is what you are supposed to do as it keeps bacterial growth down.  Refrigeration temps do not harm cubensis, that is why you can refrigerate cultures for years and years.  Roll them and they will pin just fine.  They probably bruised because the lack of verm takes away some the structural integrity of the cake.


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Invisiblejohnnyblaze2316

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Re: Cakes turned blue after cold shocking - why? [Re: Buckeye Oysters]
    #9502958 - 12/27/08 03:16 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

it will it wont it is it isnt

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OfflineFreedom
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Re: Cakes turned blue after cold shocking - why? [Re: Buckeye Oysters]
    #9502968 - 12/27/08 03:21 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

hmmmm i see.....

there was a small amount of bruising in the jars during incubation

so I have half the amount of verm that I need in my jars. Anyone try this before? :smile:

perhaps I should give it a week or so to see if it starts pinning, then if nothing happens, try casing it?

thanks for your help...

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OfflineBaKeRx561x420
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Re: Cakes turned blue after cold shocking - why? [Re: johnnyblaze2316]
    #9503007 - 12/27/08 03:30 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

There has been moderators that have been on this site for years that have tried to get to the bottom of "cold shocking".

They have performed test/experiments trying to find out if its beneficial or harmful. All the results varied. Sometimes the cold-shocked ones would fruit first, sometimes the non-coldshocked ones would fruit first.

I will not argue that dunking in the fridge is a "safety" to bacterial growth, but fully colonized cakes are very contam' resistant.

In nature where P.cubensis grow, and it rains hydrating the mycelium, it doesn't get that cold.


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Get some experience under your belt or shut the fuck up.
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OfflineRasJeph
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Re: Cakes turned blue after cold shocking - why? [Re: BaKeRx561x420]
    #9503077 - 12/27/08 03:47 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

BaKeRx561x420 said:
In nature where P.cubensis grow, and it rains hydrating the mycelium, it doesn't get that cold.




But sometimes it does. Nature isn't constant.

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InvisibleBlutjager
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Re: Cakes turned blue after cold shocking - why? [Re: BaKeRx561x420]
    #9503079 - 12/27/08 03:47 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

I have never done an experiment with cold shocking as far as actually doing anything controlled where I cold shock something and not cold shock something else but I know for a fact that cold shocking is not only not needed for cubes but may actually slow them down and make them stall :thumbdown:

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OfflineRasJeph
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Re: Cakes turned blue after cold shocking - why? [Re: Blutjager]
    #9503082 - 12/27/08 03:48 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

To add something a little more on topic:

When my buddy did his grow he dunked them all. It was about a week or more in the FC before it pinned...some up to 2 weeks. So maybe it did have something to do with it.

My 2cents.

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InvisibleBlutjager
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Re: Cakes turned blue after cold shocking - why? [Re: RasJeph]
    #9503098 - 12/27/08 03:52 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Just think of it like this,nearly every time you see a thread on how to slow something down on propose the 1st thing that gets recommended is to put it in the fridge :strokebeard:

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OfflineBaKeRx561x420
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Re: Cakes turned blue after cold shocking - why? [Re: RasJeph]
    #9503106 - 12/27/08 03:55 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

The colder temps slow down cell division.


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Get some experience under your belt or shut the fuck up.
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OfflineFreedom
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Re: Cakes turned blue after cold shocking - why? [Re: BaKeRx561x420]
    #9503122 - 12/27/08 04:00 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

hmmm ok

although to be honest, i doubt many people have the resources and motivation to do a proper controlled experiment here imo.

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OfflineBaKeRx561x420
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Re: Cakes turned blue after cold shocking - why? [Re: Freedom]
    #9503170 - 12/27/08 04:17 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
Often, a grower puts a tray in the refrigerator, and a few days later gets pins. Thus, the connection is made that the drop in temperatures caused the pinning. It makes sense right?

However, what if he had a tray that he exposed to a ten degree temperature rise and a few days later he got pins? Could he not make the same case that the increase in temperature caused the pinning? In fact, this is what happens in nature. A summer rain(thunderstorm) comes, which 'dunks' the substrate, and then when the sun comes out, the mushrooms pop up very fast, often in 80's and 90's degree temperature. One could make a very good case that in nature, it's the increase in temperature that stimulates the pinset. It's a survival mechanism. They need to spread spores before the mycelium dries out again.

I've done both of the above scenarios dozens, if not hundreds of times to get to the bottom of this. That's the reason I say what I do that temperature drop does not play a part in the pinning strategy of tropical species. In fact, some of the best pinsets came when fruiting conditions were five degrees or more warmer than colonization temperature.

Cold shocking is the signal that fall fruiting mycelium needs to begin producing fruits. Shiitake, P cyanescens, p nameko, etc., to name a few require a cold shock to fruit. Cubensis, H ulmarium, Pan Cyanescens, etc., do not require a cold shock.

The above is not to discourage experimenting in any way. However, get your ducks in a row, and have many duplicate projects made exactly the same way, and spawned, colonized, cased, etc., exactly the same way, and then cold shock some, and increase temps on others. Keep controls that fruit in exactly the temperature they colonize in.

From my experience, if you do the above, your results will vary. Sometimes the cold shocked tray will fruit sooner, but other times later, often much later. Ditto for the other parameters. This is what has led me to my conclusions. The other pinning triggers of full colonization, increased air exchange, and near 100% humidity far outweigh temperature considerations. Good luck to all. Experimenting is how we learn.
RR




--------------------
Get some experience under your belt or shut the fuck up.
RR

FUCK YOU TRICHODERMA

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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Cakes turned blue after cold shocking - why? [Re: BaKeRx561x420]
    #9503317 - 12/27/08 04:47 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

We used to recommend refrigerated dunks for bacterial control, but have found it to be unnecessary, and to delay pinning.  As said in the quote above, many species require a cold shock to fruit, cubensis not being among them.

I would suggest a good rinse under running cold tap water before and after the soaking period.
RR


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OfflineFreedom
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Re: Cakes turned blue after cold shocking - why? [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #9503341 - 12/27/08 04:51 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

hmmmm i used 'cold shocking' in the title to quickly convey what i did, but my reason behind it was just to 'dunk' so as to give the cake water to support fruit body production :wink:, should I have dunked at room temp?

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