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scottprotege
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Registered: 12/03/08
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Need help preparing a bulk substrate! I have done my homework!
#9488892 - 12/24/08 11:47 AM (15 years, 2 months ago) |
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Alright first off let me preface this by saying...I have done my homework...likely more so than most newbies. I spent nearly 2 years on overgrow.com before attempting the fine art of cannabis cultivation and I put in my time here as well.
I got started right with a little bit of investment. I got my 25qt All-American cooker, the impulse sealer, the autoclaveable filter patch bags. I built myself a nice huge incubator which holds perfectly at 85f. I also made up some liquid culture jars in a rather nifty way. So what I am trying to tell you here is ive got a good start and a good head on my shoulders.
Currently I have 4 spawn bags going. 2 each PB and 2 B+. I ordered these bags from an online supplier which I will not mention here because the customer service blew, as did shipping.
I also have 6 LC jars going. 3 with GT and 3 more with Goliath (Pan Cyan) (i know people say pans are much tricker but I just cant help but think I got this covered) .
So far the spawn bags are kicking ass with nothing funky growing. The jars are also kicking ass. Super fast colonization with both the Golden Teachers and the Goliaths.
My idea for the future is to always use an LC to inoculate pre-steralized, pre-sealed bags of pure substrate, and case with the 50/50+ or a good casing soil(if i can find a recipe). With all of my research in substrates I have still yet to find a good recipe using the items I feel would work very well. I am wanting to use a mixture of
Worm Castings Wheat Straw Vermiculite (moisture retention) Possibly a rye seed pocket in the middle of the bag to help things off to a rockin start
So my question for all of my new friends here is.... Does anyone have any ideas on ratios for the above ingredients, or any comments on why it might not be the best or anything of the sort.
Scottprotege
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PsychOfMSE
Out of the loop for too long
Registered: 12/13/08
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Re: Need help preparing a bulk substrate! I have done my homework! [Re: scottprotege]
#9488898 - 12/24/08 11:48 AM (15 years, 2 months ago) |
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85 is waaay too high to be colonizing.
75ish is a better temp.
-------------------- "I think it's impossible to really understand somebody, what they want, what they believe, and not love them the way they love themselves." - Orson Scott Card Agar's Grain LC Tek <--- Never fool with honey water and contaminated LCs again! Large_Dose's Ohmatic Monotub Tek Monstermitch's LC/WBS/Monotub/Casing Tek
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scottprotege
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Re: Need help preparing a bulk substrate! I have done my homework! [Re: PsychOfMSE]
#9488911 - 12/24/08 11:51 AM (15 years, 2 months ago) |
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I appreciate your reply but that is in no way an answer to my question.
And what do you suggest...that I fruit at 65f? Seeing as how it seems highly reccomended to have a 10 degree drop from colonize to fruit.
Scottprotege
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PsychOfMSE
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Re: Need help preparing a bulk substrate! I have done my homework! [Re: scottprotege]
#9488936 - 12/24/08 11:55 AM (15 years, 2 months ago) |
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You don't need a 10 degree drop from colonize to fruit.
3-4 degrees would be fine (from what I've heard and my experiences).
The biggest fruiting triggers are 100% colonization and FAE.
Sorry about your original question, I really don't have an answer for that, but I had to point out that your incubation temps are too high.
-------------------- "I think it's impossible to really understand somebody, what they want, what they believe, and not love them the way they love themselves." - Orson Scott Card Agar's Grain LC Tek <--- Never fool with honey water and contaminated LCs again! Large_Dose's Ohmatic Monotub Tek Monstermitch's LC/WBS/Monotub/Casing Tek
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scottprotege
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Re: Need help preparing a bulk substrate! I have done my homework! [Re: PsychOfMSE]
#9488954 - 12/24/08 11:59 AM (15 years, 2 months ago) |
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Are you absolutely sure about this? It seems nearly EVERYTHING I have read says to incubate at 84-86f.
Scottprotege
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grod31
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Re: Need help preparing a bulk substrate! I have done my homework! [Re: PsychOfMSE]
#9488960 - 12/24/08 12:00 PM (15 years, 2 months ago) |
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get coir and poo mix both or one of those with 50% verm and add your other things aterwords also. you have no clue that your lc are good so i wouldnt knock up to many things before you waist much money edit- never incubate at 85
-------------------- Back the tape up. I need it again! Let it roll! Just as high as the fucker can go! And when it comes to that fantastic note where the rabbit bites its own head off, I want you to THROW THAT FUCKING RADIO INTO THE TUB WITH ME! Not me. It would blast you through the wall stone dead in ten seconds and they'd make me explain VVVVV Free Myco Thread
Edited by grod31 (12/24/08 12:01 PM)
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PsychOfMSE
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Re: Need help preparing a bulk substrate! I have done my homework! [Re: scottprotege]
#9488962 - 12/24/08 12:01 PM (15 years, 2 months ago) |
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Yup, I'm pretty darn sure. Most people don't even use incubators. Room temperature is fine.
I only use an incubator because my house stays at around 65f. My incubator stays at 77f pretty consistently.
-------------------- "I think it's impossible to really understand somebody, what they want, what they believe, and not love them the way they love themselves." - Orson Scott Card Agar's Grain LC Tek <--- Never fool with honey water and contaminated LCs again! Large_Dose's Ohmatic Monotub Tek Monstermitch's LC/WBS/Monotub/Casing Tek
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Achilles89
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Re: Need help preparing a bulk substrate! I have done my homework! [Re: PsychOfMSE]
#9488966 - 12/24/08 12:01 PM (15 years, 2 months ago) |
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you sure bought a lot of stuff for your first try lol. Are you sure your talking about casings and not bulk? ...you don't really want anything nutritious in your casing (unless I'm very mistaken).
What are you using as spawn? It sounds like you just want to inoculate bulk bags and directly case them... right?
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scottprotege
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Re: Need help preparing a bulk substrate! I have done my homework! [Re: grod31]
#9488971 - 12/24/08 12:02 PM (15 years, 2 months ago) |
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What is a good way to test the LC...would a PF jar be a good candidate?
Scottprotege
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grod31
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Re: Need help preparing a bulk substrate! I have done my homework! [Re: scottprotege]
#9488973 - 12/24/08 12:02 PM (15 years, 2 months ago) |
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yep or agar
-------------------- Back the tape up. I need it again! Let it roll! Just as high as the fucker can go! And when it comes to that fantastic note where the rabbit bites its own head off, I want you to THROW THAT FUCKING RADIO INTO THE TUB WITH ME! Not me. It would blast you through the wall stone dead in ten seconds and they'd make me explain VVVVV Free Myco Thread
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scottprotege
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Re: Need help preparing a bulk substrate! I have done my homework! [Re: Achilles89]
#9488979 - 12/24/08 12:04 PM (15 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Achilles89 said: you sure bought a lot of stuff for your first try lol. Are you sure your talking about casings and not bulk? ...you don't really want anything nutritious in your casing (unless I'm very mistaken).
What are you using as spawn? It sounds like you just want to inoculate bulk bags and directly case them... right?
Casings? No I am not talking about casings, I am talking Bulk substrate. Yes, inoculate a bag of bulk substrate, colonize, dump and case, fruit
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PsychOfMSE
Out of the loop for too long
Registered: 12/13/08
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Loc: Midwest
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Re: Need help preparing a bulk substrate! I have done my homework! [Re: scottprotege]
#9488986 - 12/24/08 12:05 PM (15 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
scottprotege said:
Quote:
Achilles89 said: you sure bought a lot of stuff for your first try lol. Are you sure your talking about casings and not bulk? ...you don't really want anything nutritious in your casing (unless I'm very mistaken).
What are you using as spawn? It sounds like you just want to inoculate bulk bags and directly case them... right?
Casings? No I am not talking about casings, I am talking Bulk substrate. Yes, inoculate a bag of bulk substrate, colonize, dump and case, fruit
Not sure why you'd want to do it that way. If you wanting bulk grows my suggestion would be to use a grain spawn and colonize your bulk sub inside a monotub. Case then fruit.
-------------------- "I think it's impossible to really understand somebody, what they want, what they believe, and not love them the way they love themselves." - Orson Scott Card Agar's Grain LC Tek <--- Never fool with honey water and contaminated LCs again! Large_Dose's Ohmatic Monotub Tek Monstermitch's LC/WBS/Monotub/Casing Tek
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scottprotege
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Re: Need help preparing a bulk substrate! I have done my homework! [Re: grod31]
#9488997 - 12/24/08 12:08 PM (15 years, 2 months ago) |
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Rock on, thanks man. I will test my LC on some cakes before injecting a batch of substrate bags.
Scottprotege
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scottprotege
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Re: Need help preparing a bulk substrate! I have done my homework! [Re: PsychOfMSE]
#9489022 - 12/24/08 12:16 PM (15 years, 2 months ago) |
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To cut down on chance of error and contamination, to decrease production time. Liquid cultures are FAST and why waste time (and take a chance on contam) by pouring spawn into my substrate when I can just make up the whole concoction in a nice little sterile bag?
In regards to incubation temps, what is suggested? I can not tell you how many times I have read 84-86 degrees for incubation. Not to mention the fact that according to these books on shrooms mycelium dies at 106f, so where is the danger of 85? So far it has taken me 2 days to go from a jar of water and karo to a jar swarming with this cute little while fluff. Are there any reasons for not incubating at 85f? or is this all just personal prefrence.
Scottprotege
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PsychOfMSE
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Loc: Midwest
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Re: Need help preparing a bulk substrate! I have done my homework! [Re: scottprotege]
#9489029 - 12/24/08 12:17 PM (15 years, 2 months ago) |
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Incubating at 85 degrees does nothing positive for the myc, but is a GREAT breeding ground for contams.
You're gonna see a higher chance for contams in your spawn with a higher incubation temp.
-------------------- "I think it's impossible to really understand somebody, what they want, what they believe, and not love them the way they love themselves." - Orson Scott Card Agar's Grain LC Tek <--- Never fool with honey water and contaminated LCs again! Large_Dose's Ohmatic Monotub Tek Monstermitch's LC/WBS/Monotub/Casing Tek
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grod31
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Re: Need help preparing a bulk substrate! I have done my homework! [Re: scottprotege]
#9489033 - 12/24/08 12:17 PM (15 years, 2 months ago) |
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substrate bags are not for noobs but its great that you are trying here look through this http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/9488270/an/0/page/0 there is a link on the bottom that explains how i am plaing on doing this
-------------------- Back the tape up. I need it again! Let it roll! Just as high as the fucker can go! And when it comes to that fantastic note where the rabbit bites its own head off, I want you to THROW THAT FUCKING RADIO INTO THE TUB WITH ME! Not me. It would blast you through the wall stone dead in ten seconds and they'd make me explain VVVVV Free Myco Thread
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CDS
Registered: 09/05/08
Posts: 301
Loc: Grey Area
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Re: Need help preparing a bulk substrate! I have done my homework! [Re: scottprotege]
#9489056 - 12/24/08 12:23 PM (15 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
scottprotege said: ...EVERYTHING I have read says to incubate at 84-86f.
The mycelium generates its own heat while colonizing. I believe that anything higher than 86F (which is optimum temp for cube growth) the growth radically decreases, so to have your myc at 86, you would want your surrounding area lower, between 78-82F, at least that's what I've been told.
As far as bulk subs, I would recommend 10% dehydrated manure, 40% vermiculite, and 50% straw. Mix the dehydrated poo first with hot water and let it rehydrate before adding it to the rest, and then saturate to field capacity before pasteurizing for 4.5 hours in oven bags at 160F. IDK about the percentages of worm castings.
The three bulk teks I found most helpful when starting out were these:
Fahtsters, Legallyhomeless', and Monstermitchs...
-Hope this helps
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madz
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Re: Need help preparing a bulk substrate! I have done my homework! [Re: scottprotege]
#9489057 - 12/24/08 12:23 PM (15 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
scottprotege said: To cut down on chance of error and contamination, to decrease production time. Liquid cultures are FAST and why waste time (and take a chance on contam) by pouring spawn into my substrate when I can just make up the whole concoction in a nice little sterile bag?
In regards to incubation temps, what is suggested? I can not tell you how many times I have read 84-86 degrees for incubation. Not to mention the fact that according to these books on shrooms mycelium dies at 106f, so where is the danger of 85? So far it has taken me 2 days to go from a jar of water and karo to a jar swarming with this cute little while fluff. Are there any reasons for not incubating at 85f? or is this all just personal prefrence.
Scottprotege
You also have to remember that the colony will provide a little warmth. Your incubator should be 75F but the actual colony is likely a bit higher.
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widowmaker487
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Re: Need help preparing a bulk substrate! I have done my homework! [Re: scottprotege]
#9489068 - 12/24/08 12:26 PM (15 years, 2 months ago) |
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Well..... Incubating at 85 is for spawn and such but incubating bulk can make it susceptible to contam due to the ingredients. Pretty soon, you will want to step it up and grow real bulk, like a monotub.. Which is pretty dam easy, and will give you more shrooms than you can imagine.
-------------------- Everything I eat is from the Earth, right. I am what I eat straight up Earth, right. Nothing but a walking sack of Earth nice to meet you how do ya do. Guess what. Ya you're one too.
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scottprotege
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Re: Need help preparing a bulk substrate! I have done my homework! [Re: widowmaker487]
#9489137 - 12/24/08 12:42 PM (15 years, 2 months ago) |
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I do plan on doing a monotub with my bags of substrate once they are done. I will only need to dump 2 bags or so into the tub, case, and fruit. I am just attempting to do it all with less steps.
So it seems I should drop my incubator down a few notches I suppose. I see what you guys are saying about it inviting contams...even though theoretically everything should be sterile, and being in a bag seems to protect from contams pretty well.
Scottprotege
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