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Offlinemetalhead
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morel cultivation thread * 6
    #9479734 - 12/22/08 06:58 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

i've been trying to cultivate morels for some time now with limited succes and the info that's around here is so scattered around i think we should post our finds and experiments on here/this thread so if and when someone/we find success the info is in one spot rather than scattered around. so it will be easy to find and what not what do yall say?





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Edited by metalhead (04/25/09 06:40 PM)

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Invisiblegreys
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Re: morel cult thread [Re: metalhead] * 1
    #9479885 - 12/22/08 07:36 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

this is a great idea.

for my first contribution id like to provide a link to the us forestry service ecology of western morel pdfs.

very good read, was initially made available in print as a softcover book for FREE...

can printed from the pdf form though if youre patient.

it covers morel biology and ecology and even provides some info on eastern morels too.

http://www.fs.fed.us/pnw/publications/gtr710/


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Offlinemetalhead
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Re: morel cult thread [Re: greys] * 1
    #9480374 - 12/22/08 09:09 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

i found somthing while looking through old threads about being able to buy the rights to use a chinese patent to cult morels any one know about this? the thread was Cultivated morels (outdoors only so far).


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OfflineParesthesia
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Re: morel cult thread [Re: greys] * 1
    #9480456 - 12/22/08 09:22 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Here is my cultivation experience.  I have three jars of rye grass seed that have been fully colonized for a couple of weeks now.  Two jars are covered in small sclerotia, the other is just vaguely fluffy looking.

So I'm trying to form some sort of plan as to what to do with everything.  I have a lot of ideas but no solid plan as of yet.  There are pics of my jars and a thread here.  I'm still curious about the shaking/not shaking thing.  The sclerotia covered jars were shaken at least twice during colonization.

Here are a few things I'm considering:

1. Sterilize a spawn bag with rye grass seed, gravel, then a mixture of soil and fermented yard waste topped with elm shavings.  Inoculate bag with Streptomyces lydicus culture and incubate for a few days, then transfer a few morel sclerotia to the bag.
2. Make up trays or spawn bags of pasteurized substrate.  (Gravel topped with soil/compost and wood shavings.)  Transplant sclerotia to bags.
3. Dig a shallow pit near the roots of an elm tree in my front yard.  Dump everything in the pit.  Cover it with compost and soil and plant tulip bulbs.  Either tulips, or horseradish.

The object of #1 and #2 is more sclerotia.  I like #3.


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"We shall not cease from exploration, and the end of all our exploring will be to arrive where we started and know the place for the first time."

- T. S. Eliot

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Offlinemetalhead
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Re: morel cult thread [Re: Paresthesia] * 1
    #9480529 - 12/22/08 09:34 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

this thread is going to be so coool! keep your experiements, 2 cents worth comin people. and can any one make a diagram or somthin of how the nute rich,poor jar is set up or atleast explain it, and how it works.


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OfflineMycelio
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Re: morel cult thread [Re: metalhead] * 1
    #9481903 - 12/23/08 04:55 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Well, when morel cultivation is discussed, there are a several misinterpretations and wrong assumptions floating around...

I highly recommend reading the following paper from 1989:

"Physiological and Environmental Studies of Sclerotium Formation and Maturation in Isolates of Morchella crassipes"

by THOMAS J. VOLK and THOMAS J. LEONARD

http://aem.asm.org/cgi/reprint/55/12/3095.pdf


Carsten

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OfflineParesthesia
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Re: morel cult thread [Re: metalhead] * 2
    #9481921 - 12/23/08 05:21 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Yes, I would like to see a diagram as well.  I can't tell where the gravel is supposed to be anymore.  I think it's...

Duff Material
Soil
Gravel
Grass seed

Who came up with this, anyways?  I got my Morchella elata culture from Sporeworks, and the site mentions success with a layer of grass seed covered in a layer of unsupplemented sawdust.

Incidentally, this is my reasoning for using Streptomyces lydicus as a bacterial inoculant.  First of all, actinomycete bacteria are selected for in pasteurization.  GGMM mentions them specifically when discussing Agaricus cultivation, so exposure to this type of bacteria triggers fruiting in agarics.  They have some antifungal properties.  S. lydicus can be used as a foliar spray for treading various mildews and blights that attack plants.  (Tell me if I'm wrong here, but could this be a reason for pasteurized substrates resisting mold contamination?)  This bacteria colonizes plant roots and aids in fixing atmospheric nitrogen in legumes and buckwheat.  It also seems to facilitate the formation of (ecto?)mycorrhizal associations with Amanita species, according to  an abstract I found on Google.  Morels seem to require this sort of assistance when forming relationships with plants.  I believe S. lydicus is included in Fungi Perfecti's broad spectrum mycorrhizal treatment.

Oh yes, another experiment idea!  I got these plastic pot things that clip onto tree branches for cloning woody plants by air layering.  They're hinged so you can open them and observe what's going on inside, which is cool for a gardening geek like myself.  The basic procedure involves removing a ring of tree bark from a thinner branch, filling the pot with a substrate and clipping it on over the cut.  The wound on the treen will begin to form new roots in the substrate.  After a season of growth, the cutting is removed and planted.  I want to try using a mixture of spawn or sclerotia and soil in the pots to see if I can facilitate the formation of mycorrhizal associations with "virgin" tree roots.  A friend of mine is currently in school studying mycology, specifically mycorrhizae.  I should talk to her about this.

I hope people here don't think I'm too crazy with my crazy ideas.  Once I start working on a problem I can get kind of obsessed.  I must admit, I've never had a fresh morel in my life.  I'm going through all of this just to try them, and to learn more about fungal/bacterial relationships in general. :grin:


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"We shall not cease from exploration, and the end of all our exploring will be to arrive where we started and know the place for the first time."

- T. S. Eliot

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Offlinemetalhead
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Re: morel cult thread [Re: Paresthesia] * 1
    #9482569 - 12/23/08 10:44 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

while i was looking over the patent last night about how they let the substrate dry than flood it with h2o, i began to think how they grow abundantly after a wild fire and well do you guys think one of the reasons they grow so abundantly after a wildfire is that the ground is rappidly dryed and drained of moisture while being supplemented with nutes from the ash and when it rains they rapidly go to work forming sclerotia with the sudden flush of h2o(or moisture from winter snow) as in the patent process?`:rockon:


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Offlinemetalhead
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Re: morel cult thread [Re: metalhead] * 1
    #9482709 - 12/23/08 11:19 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

i think we need to start a list of sorts on the process and what we know FOR SHURE about it. and what we are missing/don't know


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OfflineAcidHorse
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Re: morel cult thread [Re: metalhead] * 1
    #9483024 - 12/23/08 12:26 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Yeah I agree,
        There needs to be a sticky one.
That and there needs to be links to the PDFs and patent PDFs and sites with information on cultivation, in the
http://www.shroomery.org/4/Grow-Mushrooms section.

I actually need an opinion on something:

Does everyone think this photo

http://store.freshmorels.com/shopimages/sections/thumbnails/baby%20morel.jpg

is an:

1) someone else's own outdoor cultivation success,
2) Gary Mills lab,
        or
3) someone else's own successful indoor grow

Its on freshmorels' site

http://store.freshmorels.com/section.php?xSec=6&jssCart=68af89c7892d510339f46ac82e22415a



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If you wanna ride, don't ride the white horse, if you wanna ride, ride the white pony

Edited by AcidHorse (12/23/08 12:48 PM)

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Offlinemetalhead
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Re: morel cult thread [Re: AcidHorse] * 1
    #9483255 - 12/23/08 01:09 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

either #2 or3


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OfflineAcidHorse
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Re: morel cult thread [Re: Paresthesia] * 2
    #9483449 - 12/23/08 01:49 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Paresthesia said:
Yes, I would like to see a diagram as well.  I can't tell where the gravel is supposed to be anymore.  I think it's...

Duff Material
Soil
Gravel
Grass seed

Who came up with this, anyways?  I got my Morchella elata culture from Sporeworks, and the site mentions success with a layer of grass seed covered in a layer of unsupplemented sawdust.










There's a diagram.

but remember what the patent says, 20% - 40% and 80% - 60% on the right proportions.

so its hard to say from the patent if the 80% is the grain or if its the soil.

But since the patent also mentions a shallow substrate of about 1 cm - 4 cm that should be enough to say what those proportions should be.

But since its has been noted that morel don't form sclerotia until the nutrient source has well run out, it might be a good strategy to use a smaller amount of grain. You don't want it to feed too much.

I think the wheat berries are a better choice than ryegrass seed. The grass seed might not have enough nutrients to satisfy the morel.

And also assume that this jar is a half-pint. So let's say its a 500 ml half-pint jar.

Also the patent mentions a perforated aluminum foil barrier between soil and grain so take an educated guess here, however in the PBS show
Mills slipped and showed that he was using a type of screen.

But also remember what I said, pasteurization of the mulch (AT LEAST). Maybe you could get by with just cooked grains and gravel too, but the jar most definitely needs to be sterilized before anything is added.

The mulch could be cooked or pasteurized in water supplemented with dextrose sugar. Morels grow good with dextrose.
Also the grain can be cooked with and supplemented with dextrose and a pellet of yeast nutrients (for nitrogen)(food grade urea).

I'm not sure if adding dextrose to a substrate is good or not, but in a PC'd situation like this on plain wood mulch there needs to be something else to motivate the morel mycelium. Otherwise it takes a little longer for it to go hog wild.





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If you wanna ride, don't ride the white horse, if you wanna ride, ride the white pony

Edited by AcidHorse (12/23/08 02:15 PM)

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Offlinemetalhead
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Re: morel cult thread [Re: AcidHorse] * 1
    #9483485 - 12/23/08 01:58 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

ok cool where do you inoculate?


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OfflineAcidHorse
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Re: morel cult thread [Re: metalhead] * 1
    #9483502 - 12/23/08 02:01 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

on the moist mulch


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Offlinemetalhead
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Re: morel cult thread [Re: AcidHorse] * 1
    #9483519 - 12/23/08 02:04 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

i'm pretty limited on supplys right now could i use wbs,rolled barley, or oatmeal in place of rye berrys? sry for the flood of q's i want to get this right.


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Re: morel cult thread [Re: metalhead] * 1
    #9483540 - 12/23/08 02:08 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Most likely, but I heard WBS carries a lot of contaminates.
Barley and Oatmeal sound about on the same level as wheat berries.


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If you wanna ride, don't ride the white horse, if you wanna ride, ride the white pony

Edited by AcidHorse (12/23/08 02:17 PM)

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Offlinemetalhead
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Re: morel cult thread [Re: AcidHorse] * 1
    #9483772 - 12/23/08 03:11 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

we know sclerotia are the secrets to forming fruiting bodies so has anybody got anything other than micro sclerotia to grow in artificial envirnments any thing bigger than a few mm's. and acidhorse would mesquite somking chips work for the wood layer or hichory it's all i have.:(


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OfflineAcidHorse
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Re: morel cult thread [Re: metalhead] * 1
    #9483819 - 12/23/08 03:24 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

It should, but like I pointed out to Mycelio and Parathesia, it might be a better idea to get the leaf litter and twigs branches and forest debri from where you find morels growing in your favorite spot, an exact location/spot square foot in the woods where you found a morel or morels.
In these spots there is most likely a microbe that lends a hand at helping to form larger sclerotia, plus the possibility that small plants are also
utilized by the morels. But lets assume there is a microbe and try that. Then of course do another experiment with the small seedling plants as a last ditch attempt.

I've seen in Mills' lab photos, in the trays of morels, there were small plants somewhat like young fiddleneck ferns sprouting up.

If you look these photos over really good you'll see what I'm talking about.


Look in the trays on the top shelf, there is a plant.

In the tray on the right side, you'll see a plant.

Light? I wonder why?

On the left side in a tray a row back there are seedlings popping up.

The thing is there must be a bacteria inbetween these plants and morels, and if the bacteria could be fed without plant nutrients would the
morels grow their sclerotia just the same?

Yet Mills still has to accomplish this feat, getting morels to grow in clumps...



Remember to expand to get the enlarged view!


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If you wanna ride, don't ride the white horse, if you wanna ride, ride the white pony

Edited by AcidHorse (12/23/08 04:57 PM)

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Offlinemetalhead
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Re: morel cult thread [Re: AcidHorse] * 1
    #9483832 - 12/23/08 03:28 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

that's what i would like to do but where i live and find my morels there is a foot + of snow on the ground


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Offlinemetalhead
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Re: morel cult thread [Re: metalhead] * 2
    #9483874 - 12/23/08 03:39 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

it's the microbes! i came across this on a news website covering mills work . (They’re not grown in the dark. Instead, the morel, oyster, shitake, cinnamon nameko and black poplar start out in Petri dishes, where the ISOLATED MICROBES can ferment and grow. Then they’re transplanted to plastic bags containing a mixture of natural biomass. They then advance to plastic trays on shelves in cool, moist rooms where they sprout.
They have particular tastes. Depending on the species, they’re fed clean, freshly cut oak sawdust and soybean husks. Morels grow in deciduous bark and leaf compost. The special diets are blended and pasteurized to become a fungi buffet. All the resources, and the mushroom strains, are local products)

bark and leave compost!


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