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 deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
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 My position as a Devil's Advocate. 
#9466603 - 12/20/08 11:42 AM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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Lately it seems some have misunderstood my general position on these forums, so I'd like to clarify a few points.
I like to argue. A lot. But the same old, tired, and trite resorts to skepticism about paranormal phenomena, God, religion, and other questionable matters gets old after a while. I'm on this board primarily to practice argumentation and good debate, and I therefore find it much more interesting and entertaining to argue for the weaker position; namely, to defend the existence of telepathy, convince that solipsism is true, or what have you. Consequently, my personal views rarely, if ever, come into my posts.
I'm curious--how many other people on this forum argue mainly for the sake of arguing and bettering their skills in debate? Devil's advocate is an excellent role to play, IMO, not only because it disallows your verbal opponents from pigeonholing you into stale categories, but because it also forces you to understand the perspective of both sides.
"Know thy enemy and know yourself; in a hundred battles, you will never be defeated. When you are ignorant of the enemy but know yourself, your chances of winning or losing are equal. If ignorant both of your enemy and of yourself, you are sure to be defeated in every battle."
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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
  
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AroundtheSon
Learning to See
Registered: 01/11/07
Posts: 4,427
Loc: Midwest.
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 Re: My position as a Devil's Advocate. [Re: deCypher]
#9466618 - 12/20/08 11:44 AM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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you mite want to rethink you position
Do not post personal criticisms.
Edited by Veritas (12/21/08 07:53 PM)
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deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
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Re: My position as a Devil's Advocate. [Re: AroundtheSon]
#9466626 - 12/20/08 11:45 AM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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Good to hear. 
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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
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mushroom people
I ♥ LSD
Registered: 11/01/08
Posts: 406
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Re: My position as a Devil's Advocate. [Re: deCypher]
#9466651 - 12/20/08 11:50 AM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
deCypher said:
But the same old, tired, and trite resorts to skepticism about paranormal phenomena, God, religion, and other questionable matters gets old after a while.
That is the understatement of the century. Let's include last century, too.
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group
Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,441
Loc: Under the C
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Re: My position as a Devil's Advocate. [Re: deCypher]
#9466654 - 12/20/08 11:51 AM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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Seems the previous poster did not read my thread on projection. 
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 Bernackums
The universe will have its way.
Registered: 08/06/07
Posts: 865
Last seen: 14 years, 2 months
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namely, to defend the existence of telepathy, convince that solipsism is true, or what have you.
You've got a truth and you've been holding out on me!?
You often take these weaker positions and argue the death out of them, though really these ideas are just big What Ifs, and I find most of your arguements are illogical because of it. If there were good ways to defend these ideas, they wouldn't be the "weaker positions".
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Let's get the fuck out of here.
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Re: My position as a Devil's Advocate. [Re: deCypher]
#9466862 - 12/20/08 12:31 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
AroundtheSon said:
you mite want to rethink you position
Only those foolish enough to assume that someone's personal method of critiquing and debating ideas in this forum is their actual personality could think that by reading his posts. The forum is for the discussion and exchange of ideas, yet still people will think that subjecting an idea to sharp criticism, however one wishes to do so, which is a purpose explicitly allowed for in this forum, equates into a display of the actual personality of the poster themselves. This is why "personalisms" are forbidden in this forum, which means that expressing drawn conclusions regarding the personality of others as result of how they discuss or what they discuss (it doesn't cover when personality itself is proposed as the topic, never did) belongs elsewhere.
Hell, I really love it when people confuse asking a question with holding the opposing viewpoint, simply because asking the question forces them to critically think about what they are saying, which I guess is seen as a threat to their personality.
If you want to play the personal drama game, then go outside and walk to your nearest high school. 
Quote:
deCypher said:
I'm curious--how many other people on this forum argue mainly for the sake of arguing and bettering their skills in debate? Devil's advocate is an excellent role to play, IMO, not only because it disallows your verbal opponents from pigeonholing you into stale categories, but because it also forces you to understand the perspective of both sides.
I've played it many times, but my reason for posting here when I do is for the sake of developing my own understanding, and, as a consequence, becoming more capable of expressing it to others in a written way. I usually don't try to hold to a position just to argue it though, especially ones I don't hold to myself, because I find far too many things to support in the name of reality. I don't think it is necessary to use devil's advocate to avoid being "pigeon-holed" because stale categories can be avoided by calling them out for what they are - simply avoiding it by not holding to one's own sense of perspective on the matters and playing devil's advocate instead doesn't do much as far as being a proponent for what you actually think is concerned. Of course, it isn't as though it is necessary to be a proponent of exactly or only that, but I'm simply speaking regarding my personal preference... Usually, being so prone to taking on debate in this manner as you've described serves as great evidence that some being, somewhere, is actually beginning to think about things and not simply perpetuate the same old presumptions. 
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If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
  
 
Edited by Veritas (12/21/08 07:55 PM)
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group
Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,441
Loc: Under the C
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Re: My position as a Devil's Advocate. [Re: fireworks_god]
#9466981 - 12/20/08 12:55 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Only those foolish enough to assume that someone's personal method of critiquing and debating ideas in this forum is their actual personality could think that by reading his posts. The forum is for the discussion and exchange of ideas, yet still people will think that subjecting an idea to sharp criticism, however one wishes to do so, which is a purpose explicitly allowed for in this forum, equates into a display of the actual personality of the poster themselves. This is why "personalisms" are forbidden in this forum, which means that expressing drawn conclusions regarding the personality of others as result of how they discuss or what they discuss (it doesn't cover when personality itself is proposed as the topic, never did) belongs elsewhere.
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Edited by Veritas (12/21/08 07:55 PM)
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redgreenvines
irregular verb
Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 38,169
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I like to wrangle with words and deliver an interesting angle on the same old stuff.
occasionally the angle that comes out is really new and exciting;
it often seems to go unnoticed as such, but it is a good exercise for me anyway, I think.
otherwise I get lots of opportunities to rattle on about how I think the mind works, and what psychedelics are like.
this is much more appealing to me than crocheting doilies.
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 _  ð§ _ 
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group
Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,441
Loc: Under the C
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Re: My position as a Devil's Advocate. [Re: redgreenvines]
#9467098 - 12/20/08 01:21 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
it often seems to go unnoticed as such
Not really. I pop a beer and smoke a jay everytime you come up with a new bent.
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Bridgeburner
Not spiritual at all.
Registered: 09/16/06
Posts: 20,010
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the only way to post in P&S is to just make your post and never visit the thread again.
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dead4spread20
Stranger
Registered: 09/26/05
Posts: 71
Last seen: 13 years, 10 days
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Re: My position as a Devil's Advocate. [Re: Bridgeburner]
#9467669 - 12/20/08 03:19 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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I've got a question my friend is oding does the ice in the ass and pussy really work? I searched but I am skeptical
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MR14
Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 4,830
Loc: 
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Re: My position as a Devil's Advocate. *DELETED* [Re: dead4spread20]
#9467743 - 12/20/08 03:31 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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Post deleted by BauhnReason for deletion: b
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Booby
Agent Mulder
Registered: 09/14/05
Posts: 3,781
Last seen: 14 years, 4 months
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Re: My position as a Devil's Advocate. [Re: MR14]
#9467875 - 12/20/08 03:57 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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Al resembles Buster Keaton in that pic.
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Let it not be remembered
That mycelium eats detritus and dies
But that life in all it's glory
Counts mycelium to be on it's side.
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deranger
Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 6,840
Loc: off the wall
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Re: My position as a Devil's Advocate. [Re: deCypher]
#9468212 - 12/20/08 05:09 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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is this not a way of deceiving those you are arguing against?
is purposefully hiding behind such an act not a way of being dishonest?
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WordlessNature
kÅ¡atrīya
Registered: 02/04/06
Posts: 412
Last seen: 2 years, 2 months
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Re: My position as a Devil's Advocate. [Re: deranger]
#9469172 - 12/20/08 08:17 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
deranger said:
is this not a way of deceiving those you are arguing against?
is purposefully hiding behind such an act not a way of being dishonest?
What's your point?
Deception is an important tool.
Moreover, there is no deception involved in putting forward or arguing for a point of view other than your own, particularly if you do not make any claim regarding your personal opinion either way.
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deranger
Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 6,840
Loc: off the wall
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Re: My position as a Devil's Advocate. [Re: WordlessNature]
#9469354 - 12/20/08 09:01 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Deception is an important tool.
in your opinion.
Quote:
Moreover, there is no deception involved in putting forward or arguing for a point of view other than your own, particularly if you do not make any claim regarding your personal opinion either way.
how is arguing just for the sake of being contrary not misleading?
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deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
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Re: My position as a Devil's Advocate. [Re: deranger]
#9469366 - 12/20/08 09:05 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
deranger said:
how is arguing just for the sake of being contrary not misleading?
It's not just for the sake of being contrary; it's to point out the flaws and inconsistencies in the opponent's position while giving you a better understanding of the topic. It would be misleading if I claimed to personally believe the rhetoric while constantly flip-flopping from viewpoint to viewpoint.
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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
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Sophistic Radiance
Free sVs!
Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 43,135
Loc: Center of the Universe
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Re: My position as a Devil's Advocate. [Re: deCypher]
#9469395 - 12/20/08 09:13 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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Personally, I try to avoid long-winded redundant argumentation and focus instead on ideas that I find interesting. I get the impression you do the same. 
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Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.
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deranger
Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 6,840
Loc: off the wall
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obviously when you argue against the nonexistence of something such as telepathy, many will assume it's because you have some belief in it. after all, not everyone who plays devils advocate always states they are playing that role in the time of the act. this is what is somewhat misleading, though it could be said that the person who is misunderstanding you is misleading themselves. but you helped to push them in this direction, did you not?
also, can you tell me what kind of understanding of telepathy you would gain by debating about it? it seems any understanding that may arise from this would be nothing but fruitless and superficial.
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