Home | Community | Message Board


This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: Bridgetown Botanicals CBD Concentrates   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Kraken Kratom Kratom Capsules for Sale   PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder   Original Sensible Seeds Autoflowering Cannabis Seeds   North Spore Injection Grain Bag

Jump to first unread post Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | Next >  [ show all ]
InvisibledeCypher
 User Gallery


Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
Why drug legalization is fundamentally flawed.
    #9414518 - 12/11/08 05:55 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Imagine, if you will, a nation that has just legalized all drugs.  No age limits on what you can buy, no restrictions on which chemicals are legal and which aren't, no requirement for prescription before purchase.  Marijuana is sold by the bales at farmer's markets, vicodin and oxycodone are found in bubblegum machines, and methamphetamine is available at your local Circle-K.  A free eight-ball of cocaine comes with the appetizer at a restaurant dinner, and a sprinkling of MDMA can be left for the tip at your discretion.  Billboards for the latest and greatest ayahuasca brews are planted throughout the city, while vending machines sell sterilized needles and dimebags of heroin to anyone who has twenty dollars.

Now, at first glance this might seem like a druggie's paradise come to life; a pharmacological utopia of consciousness-altering euphoria.  Stoners would celebrate with day-long blaze fests in the middle of the streets.  Junkies would rush to the stores and purchase as many opiates as their bank accounts would afford.  Shroomerites would gleefully candy-flip their psychedelic combos in broad daylight at the parks; laughing and rolling around surrounded by nature as policemen stand helplessly by to prevent it.  Dealers and commercial growers would curse and rail their fate as the heavy engine of legitimate business enterprises rolls in to take their place.  Organized crime would reshift its money-making strategy towards illegal weaponry and the increasingly few prohibited items in this modern society, while governmental officials would watch their money-bags grow fatter due to the hordes of money coming in from these taxable products.

This sounds like bliss, and from my personal perspective it would be.  I mean, seriously--no longer having to deal with the sketchy black market; no longer having to deal with ten year prison sentences if getting caught with a particular chemical; no longer having to worry about social stigma for being involved with illegal activities; no longer worrying about dealers jacking up their prices unfairly without a Better Business Bureau to complain to; the list grows endless.  Nonetheless, I am thoroughly convinced that such a situation would invariably lead to negative and horrible results for society as a whole.

In the first place, imagine yourself as a parent.  You've raised your children up until age eight, let's say, and you love them with the whole of your heart.  You would never want them to be hurt, or make any kind of stupid decision that would negatively impact their life.  Would you still want your eight-year old able to purchase and shoot up methamphetamine?  Would you want your kids blazing it up during kindergarten or 6th grade; paying no attention to class in favor of the delicious alternative of getting high?  Or how about getting addicted to heroin?  Until your children move out, they are under your responsibility and your care--as a parent, do you want your child suffering neurotoxic brain damage after combining cocaine and MDMA?  Or how about selling all his books and stuffed animals to afford another baggie of H?  Unless you're fine with all of this, it is clear that there have to be some sort of age-restrictions on the buying of drugs.  Just like you have to be 18 years of age in most states to purchase a gun, so too is it likely most parents will favor making it 18 and up to purchase an addictive drug.

But even then, imagine an newly-turned 18 year old, flushed with the anticipation of doing his first line of snow white.  Curiosity is the downfall of most addicts, and given the opportunity to buy something legally, it is more than probable that a person will try it.  This is the reason why prescription pharmaceuticals, alcohol, caffeine, and cigarettes are so widely abused across the nation in comparison with arguably more addictive drugs such as heroin or cocaine.  Availability is of far more importance than actual addictiveness; sugar has been argued to be as equally as addictive as heroin and yet we don't see equal numbers of people chasing the dragon and drinking soda.  In a society with a stigma against drug-use, and the increased difficulty of obtaining black-market substances when compared to buying things at a convenience store, drug use will be significantly lower than if it is legalized.

Legalization will not only staggeringly increase the number of junkies and people hopelessly hooked on boosting their dopamine-reinforced pathways (legalizing things does not make people's decisions to try them any smarter or more responsible), but it will significantly decrease the economic and academic productivity of the nation.  Why not get high during a work break?  Why not prefer to insufflate some chemical that will remove anxiety and yield blissful pleasure as opposed to studying a bit harder on an exam?  Why not choose to live one's life in a blazeful haze of smoke rather than join the Type-A, competitive atmosphere of law school?  Why not pursue the endless depths of the rabbit hole rather than tinker around with mathematical patterns or write flowing, eloquent essays?  A nation's workforce that has unlimited and legal access to all kinds of recreational drugs will be significantly less productive than a nation that does not, and making the counter-argument that people who choose to do drugs will do them anyway fails when you consider human curiosity and the fact that people will generally spend their money on anything legal.

Personally, I'm all for legalizing drugs.  I don't want to pay exorbitant prices for dirty ecstasy, and I don't want to face years of prison time.  But as a society, I am firmly against opening the flood-gates to this tidal wave of apathy, lack of academic and economic motivation, and rampant increase in the downward spiral of addiction.


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

Edited by deCypher (12/11/08 06:33 PM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineDimensionX
King of Birds
Male

Registered: 09/26/07
Posts: 5,486
Loc: Australia Flag
Last seen: 2 years, 1 month
Re: Why drug legalization is fundamentally flawed. (anyone420, this one's for you) [Re: deCypher]
    #9414536 - 12/11/08 05:58 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

But your version of legalization with no restrictions at all is probably the most extreme version i could imagine. I don't think many legalization proponents would agree with this version of legalization.

Edited by DimensionX (12/11/08 05:59 PM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibledeCypher
 User Gallery


Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
Re: Why drug legalization is fundamentally flawed. (anyone420, this one's for you) [Re: DimensionX]
    #9414557 - 12/11/08 06:02 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

The argument still stands even if we only legalize weed.

Decreased short-term memory, the obviously decidable choice between getting high and working harder, preferring to spend money on weed rather than save it for the future, the list goes on...


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineDragonChaser
Ice in Her Ass and Pussy
Male User Gallery


Registered: 04/27/06
Posts: 7,212
Last seen: 6 years, 4 months
Re: Why drug legalization is fundamentally flawed. (anyone420, this one's for you) [Re: DimensionX]
    #9414574 - 12/11/08 06:05 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

DimensionX said:
But your version of legalization with no restrictions at all is probably the most extreme version i could imagine. I don't think many legalization proponents would agree with this version of legalization.




Agreed.  Legalization doesn't mean a free for all.  Legalize it, but regulate it.
Just because coke is legal, doesn't mean people are going to want free 8-balls with their dinner.
The average person doesn't go out and smoke crack, shoot heroin, or snort meth because they realize the health consequences and addiction potential.  Legalization won't suddenly change millions of people's minds.
Alcohol is legal, and I don't drink, even if the booze is free, because I know its bad for me and it makes me feel like shit.
I don't smoke cigarettes any more except rarely, because they make my lungs feel like crap and because I know that commercial tobacco is terrible for your health.

Even if its not regulated quite like alcohol or tobacco, a program could be set up so that people who wanted to use hard drugs would be required to take a class on the drug they want to use, where they learn the real medical facts and addicts speak to the class, so they can see firsthand the results of crack, and after completing the class and a short test on the effects of the drug, receive a license to purchase and possess said drug.  That way, people will think twice before running to the store to buy crack, and likely, the only people who will go through these classes are people who are already addicted to hard drugs, or people who are going to use them anyway.

Your argument is fundamentally flawed.


--------------------
My name is Mud

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineDimensionX
King of Birds
Male

Registered: 09/26/07
Posts: 5,486
Loc: Australia Flag
Last seen: 2 years, 1 month
Re: Why drug legalization is fundamentally flawed. (anyone420, this one's for you) [Re: deCypher]
    #9414576 - 12/11/08 06:06 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

I'm not sure weed would have those effects on society. I believe that humans are naturally productive. Most people get bored sitting around the house all day. I think only a small minority of people would behave in the way you suggest.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibledeCypher
 User Gallery


Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
Re: Why drug legalization is fundamentally flawed. (anyone420, this one's for you) [Re: DragonChaser]
    #9414592 - 12/11/08 06:08 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

DragonChaser said:
The average person doesn't go out and smoke crack, shoot heroin, or snort meth because they realize the health consequences and addiction potential.




But nonetheless they go out and binge drink, smoke ridiculous amounts of cigarettes, and do countless other unhealthy activities either because it feels good and they don't care about consequences, or they're too young to fully realize the consequences.  Most teenagers think that they're invincible, and making a decision weighing the pros and cons of drug use is fundamentally changed once you do that first hit of pure quality blow.


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinefeifen

Registered: 10/18/08
Posts: 7,040
Last seen: 13 years, 2 months
Re: Why drug legalization is fundamentally flawed. (anyone420, this one's for you) [Re: deCypher]
    #9414593 - 12/11/08 06:08 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

I can't tell if you copy and pasted this shit, or if you wrote this, but it doesn't matter either way, if someone wants to do drugs, they will do drugs, even with legalization your always going to have some people that say no anyway, and with religion many people do not believe in any use of drugs. And there WOULD be age limitations, your not going to let a fucking 12 year old go out and buy heroin, now, he could get someone to get it for him, but once again, that means it would be another black market, which would be either cheaper or more expensive (for young ones anyway). You say that everyone is going to get high during work, well so what if they did? As long as they can get their job done then all hell, go for it. I go to work vaped all the time and have absolutely no problems. Yes, it is true that because of legalization, more people would be interested, but again, that is THEIR choice, and YOU do not have the RIGHT to do so. That is like me telling you that you cannot have any drugs, while you may or may not be for that, what if I made it so you could never do drugs again? How would you feel? I personally believe it would help the economy, it needs new industry's, and while it may not be the best industry, it is one that would contribute.

You act like once legalization occurs that everyone is going to go insane and just be fucked up 100%, me, personally, I like to be sober at times, and if drugs ever do get legalized in my lifetime, your not going to see me go run around and shoot up in the street, or go to work on acid, or roll a spliff in work and smoke right then and there. You have to realize while some may do so as you've spoken, not everyone is like that.

Also to counter argue your point of addiction, with these new laws, information would be GREATLY more thrown out there about the drugs and their effects, more scientific studies could be done to see if there are any more side effects long-term and short-term. Honestly I didn't even know what the fuck drugs were until I got older, and if I were a parent I would not allow my child to have drugs until they were of a certain age. Some people are responsible you know.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinecircularvortex
Bass Head
Male User Gallery

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 08/31/06
Posts: 12,148
Loc: Flag
Last seen: 16 days, 10 hours
Re: Why drug legalization is fundamentally flawed. (anyone420, this one's for you) [Re: deCypher]
    #9414600 - 12/11/08 06:09 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)



--------------------
No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, federal, or fashion police laws. All posts are works of fiction.

For well you know that its a fool who plays it cool
By making his world a little colder.

Under closer inspection I realised it was a funky ball of tits from outer space.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinefeifen

Registered: 10/18/08
Posts: 7,040
Last seen: 13 years, 2 months
Re: Why drug legalization is fundamentally flawed. (anyone420, this one's for you) [Re: deCypher]
    #9414607 - 12/11/08 06:09 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

deCypher said:
The argument still stands even if we only legalize weed.

Decreased short-term memory, the obviously decidable choice between getting high and working harder, preferring to spend money on weed rather than save it for the future, the list goes on...




You can grow weed easily, probably one of the easiest plants to grow on earth. What money would you need to spend? Please elaborate.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibledeCypher
 User Gallery


Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
Re: Why drug legalization is fundamentally flawed. (anyone420, this one's for you) [Re: feifen]
    #9414611 - 12/11/08 06:10 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

feifen said: Some people are responsible you know.




A hell of a lot more people aren't.  Just look at any statistic about how many people drink, or smoke, don't exercise, etc etc.

And yes, I wrote this.


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleCognitive_Shift
CS actual
 User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 29,591
Re: Why drug legalization is fundamentally flawed. (anyone420, this one's for you) [Re: feifen]
    #9414614 - 12/11/08 06:11 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

The drug war isn't flawed for the government its right up their alley.  They get to put people that aren't a part of "the game" in jail and let everyone else walk around unconsciously consuming all this garbage being manufactured out of the hands of cultural engineers.


--------------------
L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibledeCypher
 User Gallery


Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
Re: Why drug legalization is fundamentally flawed. (anyone420, this one's for you) [Re: feifen]
    #9414617 - 12/11/08 06:12 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

feifen said:
You can grow weed easily, probably one of the easiest plants to grow on earth. What money would you need to spend? Please elaborate.




So remove weed and insert name of chemical here.

Time spent getting high is time you could have used to go out there and chat up a lady, work on writing a book, studying harder, the list goes on.


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineDimensionX
King of Birds
Male

Registered: 09/26/07
Posts: 5,486
Loc: Australia Flag
Last seen: 2 years, 1 month
Re: Why drug legalization is fundamentally flawed. (anyone420, this one's for you) [Re: deCypher]
    #9414620 - 12/11/08 06:12 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

If people weren't responsible society would not exist. Everyone has every opportunity to behave in an irresponsible manner and even get away with it for the most part. But most people raise families and work hard just because this how their value system works.

Edited by DimensionX (12/11/08 06:14 PM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineDragonChaser
Ice in Her Ass and Pussy
Male User Gallery


Registered: 04/27/06
Posts: 7,212
Last seen: 6 years, 4 months
Re: Why drug legalization is fundamentally flawed. (anyone420, this one's for you) [Re: deCypher]
    #9414621 - 12/11/08 06:12 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

deCypher said:
Quote:

DragonChaser said:
The average person doesn't go out and smoke crack, shoot heroin, or snort meth because they realize the health consequences and addiction potential.




But nonetheless they go out and binge drink, smoke ridiculous amounts of cigarettes




Actually no, the average person does not binge drink or smoke.

Maybe your college experience has influenced what you think about what applies to the average person.


--------------------
My name is Mud

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibledeCypher
 User Gallery


Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
Re: Why drug legalization is fundamentally flawed. (anyone420, this one's for you) [Re: DragonChaser]
    #9414634 - 12/11/08 06:13 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

DragonChaser said:
Actually no, the average person does not binge drink or smoke.




A lot of college kids binge drink, sure.  A hell of a lot of people consume alcohol.

Almost half of Americans aged 12 and older reported being current drinkers of alcohol in the 2000 survey (46.6 percent). This translates to an estimated 104 million people. Both the rate of alcohol use and number of drinkers were nearly the same in 2000 as in 1999 (46.4 percent and 103 million).


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineGrapefruit
Freak in the forest
 User Gallery


Registered: 05/09/08
Posts: 5,744
Last seen: 3 years, 2 months
Re: Why drug legalization is fundamentally flawed. (anyone420, this one's for you) [Re: deCypher]
    #9414648 - 12/11/08 06:16 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

People aren't gonna go out and get a smack prescription and a needle from boots along with a load of acid tabs just cuz it's legal. Illegalization does nothing but harm and discourages nobody IMO, most likely is that it does the opposite. It is also against our basic rights as humans to think for ourselves. Getting locked up for something that causes no harm to anybody else is ridiculous IMO. Drug illegalization does more harm than good and that is a fact. It would be better if drugs came with an information leaflet and without the risk of contaminants. Drug info might be good and not so biased and stupid.

The most important point is that illegalization is against our basic rights.


--------------------
Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. 

"Chat your fraff
Chat your fraff
Just chat your fraff
Chat your fraff"

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineDragonChaser
Ice in Her Ass and Pussy
Male User Gallery


Registered: 04/27/06
Posts: 7,212
Last seen: 6 years, 4 months
Re: Why drug legalization is fundamentally flawed. (anyone420, this one's for you) [Re: deCypher]
    #9414654 - 12/11/08 06:16 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

deCypher said:
Quote:

DragonChaser said:
Actually no, the average person does not binge drink or smoke.




A lot of college kids binge drink, sure.  A hell of a lot of people consume alcohol.

Almost half of Americans aged 12 and older reported being current drinkers of alcohol in the 2000 survey (46.6 percent). This translates to an estimated 104 million people. Both the rate of alcohol use and number of drinkers were nearly the same in 2000 as in 1999 (46.4 percent and 103 million).




Sure, a lot of people consume alcohol.  But just because 46% of people consume alcohol, that doesn't mean that they all binge drink.  In fact, most binge drinkers are between the ages of 18 and 22.
But you haven't shown any statistics on binge drinking, just the percentage of people who consumed alcohol prior to this survey.


--------------------
My name is Mud

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinefeifen

Registered: 10/18/08
Posts: 7,040
Last seen: 13 years, 2 months
Re: Why drug legalization is fundamentally flawed. (anyone420, this one's for you) [Re: feifen]
    #9414675 - 12/11/08 06:18 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Once again, you failed to realize it shouldn't be up to anyone but the individual on what they put in their body. There shouldn't BE any laws on it. Regulation, but not laws against it. Who says you can't be productive high? I do most things high and have no trouble. Your just blaming drugs, and that isn't the case for everyone. You can't base everyone on everyone, everyone is different. Therefore your argument is invalid, most people do NOT binge drink or smoke, infact, a large majority don't even do drugs at all. But for the ones that do, why should they be held back? What can you do sober that you can't do high? I can work, clean (only time I clean is WHEN im high), exercise high. What is your argument? Drugs aren't for everyone, and not everyone does drugs. I'm sure you have gotten drunk / smoked / whatever before, why did you go do it? Why are you here? Because your interested? Maybe you don't care so much of the effects? Find life to be meaningless? You can't blame lack of motivation on drugs, if a lazy person smokes weed, then they get lazy. If a motivated person smokes weed, they can stay motivated.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineShamanintraining
Junkhead
Male


Registered: 12/05/07
Posts: 3,565
Loc: Rough Raleigh Flag
Last seen: 6 years, 8 months
Re: Why drug legalization is fundamentally flawed. (anyone420, this one's for you) [Re: deCypher]
    #9414679 - 12/11/08 06:19 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

When the Netherlands switched to it's current drug policy, marijuana use only increased for a short period of time and then dropped. Also, I don't think legality is keeping people away from methamphetamine, cocaine, and heroin.


--------------------



"Leave your mind alone and just get high"

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibledeCypher
 User Gallery


Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
Re: Why drug legalization is fundamentally flawed. (anyone420, this one's for you) [Re: DragonChaser]
    #9414681 - 12/11/08 06:19 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Heavy drinking was reported by 5.6 percent of the population aged 12 and older, or 12.6 million people. These 2000 estimates were nearly identical to the 1999 estimates.

About 9.7 million persons aged 12 to 20 reported drinking alcohol in the month prior to the survey interview in 2000 (27.5 percent of this age group). An estimated 6.6 million (18.7 percent) were binge drinkers and 2.1 million (6.0 percent) were heavy drinkers. All of these 2000 rates were similar to rates observed in 1999.




20% of people aged 12 to 20 are binge drinkers, and 6% heavy drinkers.  These are staggering statistics, especially when you take into account that this is when alcohol is illegal prior to being 21.


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | Next >  [ show all ]

Shop: Bridgetown Botanicals CBD Concentrates   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Kraken Kratom Kratom Capsules for Sale   PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder   Original Sensible Seeds Autoflowering Cannabis Seeds   North Spore Injection Grain Bag


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Drug Banners!
( 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 all )
EffedS 13,623 172 12/24/08 01:24 PM
by ltd
* Drugs are needed for our society to continue...
( 1 2 all )
DailyPot 6,161 23 03/06/17 09:13 PM
by triphead9428
* What is YOUR anti-drug?
( 1 2 3 all )
kilgore_trout 5,605 41 03/09/04 11:58 AM
by filthysock
* no more vavorite drug!!!!???? notapillow 852 10 12/15/03 07:11 PM
by The_Red_Crayon
* Shell Silverstien- Drug Poem? CerebralFlower 1,472 9 03/02/04 09:50 AM
by CerebralFlower
* Yerba Mate drinkers? Twirling 1,322 6 08/22/03 08:18 AM
by ekomstop
* are you a cheap drinker?
( 1 2 all )
TODAY 4,617 38 04/16/04 06:24 PM
by filthysock
* 1 = 2 Identify The Flaw Jackal 956 10 01/29/03 08:36 PM
by Strumpling

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Entire Staff
13,240 topic views. 1 members, 41 guests and 42 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2024 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.036 seconds spending 0.008 seconds on 16 queries.