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Offlinejjb007

Registered: 10/03/08
Posts: 338
Loc: Near Philly
Last seen: 1 year, 4 months
A few questions about growing edibles outdoors.
    #9406854 - 12/10/08 02:40 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

A recent post informed me that you can grow edibles on unpasteurized/unsterilized sawdust outdoors.  So I have a few questions in regards to doing so:

1. Must the sawdust still be supplemented with bran/gypsum?

2. Could I just pour a large amount of LC onto a pile of sawdust outside and expect the pile of sawdust to fruit mushrooms? 

3. Must the sawdust bed be in contact with the soil on the ground?  Or could I place a bunch of sawdust into a laundry basket and set it outside to grow?

4. If I placed Oak logs ontop of an inoculated sawdust bed, would the logs also eventually fruit?

I plan to do this next spring and I am going away for about a month so I'm trying to figure out if I should start some LC cultures or spawn before I leave.

Thanks!

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Invisiblefrankenstoen

Registered: 01/26/08
Posts: 385
Re: A few questions about growing edibles outdoors. [Re: jjb007]
    #9407031 - 12/10/08 03:07 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

1. No. Gypsum probably okay, supplements bad.

2. Doubtful. Other organisms will eat the mycelium while it's still in shock, before it has a chance to grab on to the sawdust.

3. Wood chips, not fine sawdust, are going to work outdoors in a bed. A laundry basket full of sawdust?

4. Possibly, if the inoculated bed is successfully colonized. Better to drill holes in the log and inoculate it from the inside out.

5. Go buy and read Paul Stamets' Mycelium Running for a good rundown on outdoor growing strategies.

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Offlinejjb007

Registered: 10/03/08
Posts: 338
Loc: Near Philly
Last seen: 1 year, 4 months
Re: A few questions about growing edibles outdoors. [Re: frankenstoen]
    #9407108 - 12/10/08 03:20 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Thanks, I'll try and checkout the book at some point.  Unfortunately I doubt I will be able to really sit down and read it for at least a few months.

Also, the sawdust I have is not really fine.  It is kind of hard to explain but it is more like very thin shavings, slightly thinner than a paper clip.  They would be able to stay in the laundry basket as long as I weighed them down with something (I was thinking oak logs).  Or maybe I could even put straw around the outside so that it stays in the basket better. 

But it seems that I will have to make sawdust spawn rather than LC for this project.  I asked this in one of my other posts but it was not yet answered : Must you PC 1/2 pint supplemented sawdust for 2 hours just like you would a spawn bag?  Or can you get away with doing it for less time?

Thanks!

Edited by jjb007 (12/10/08 03:24 PM)

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Invisiblefrankenstoen

Registered: 01/26/08
Posts: 385
Re: A few questions about growing edibles outdoors. [Re: jjb007]
    #9407619 - 12/10/08 04:35 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Two hours is considered the minimum amount of time for supplemented sawdust. You may be able to get away with less time. Or you may not. There's lots of rules that we follow in order to get perfect grows each time. The more rules that you break, the more you are doing an experiment, and not trying to have a successful grow. If you look at it as an experiment, then even if you fail, you have learned something. If you want to be guaranteed to grow mushrooms, you will be disappointed. I do it both ways - I grow several bags strictly by the rules, and with my extra spawn, I do experiments, mostly outdoors, with non-sterilized substrates. Most of these outdoor experiments fail, but I wasn't counting on them for delicious mushrooms, and I learned something, so that's okay.

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Offlinefalcon
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Registered: 04/01/02
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Re: A few questions about growing edibles outdoors. [Re: jjb007]
    #9407654 - 12/10/08 04:41 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Must you PC 1/2 pint supplemented sawdust for 2 hours just like you would a spawn bag?  Or can you get away with doing it for less time?

Depends on how many jars you have in the PC. Once it gets up to tempature anything under a quart I cook for an hour, but it can take
20 to 30 minutes or longer if you have a large cooker with a lot of jars in it, to get up to 15psi.

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Offlinedenger
Mycelium keeper
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Registered: 09/19/08
Posts: 1,177
Loc: Unites States of Dreams
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Re: A few questions about growing edibles outdoors. [Re: falcon]
    #9408201 - 12/10/08 06:14 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

No, no folks. It does not depend on the number of jars. It depends on the size of jars (or bags). The problem with sawdust is NOT that it cannot be sterilized in 30-45 minutes. The problem is that it does not reach the sterilization temperature in the middle of the jar/bag very fast, because sawdust is an excellent insulator. The bigger is the vessel the more time it takes. Conventional wisdom is that it takes a minimum of 2 hours for an average 3-4 pound bag. A quart jar should be ok in one hour, but it will not hurt to go longer. I do my 1/2 gal. jars for 90-100 minutes. It does not matter how many jars there are in a cooker because steam goes around every jar equally fast.

When doing bags there is a risk of having a zone where two bags touch each other that will take extremely long time to heat up, thats why it is a good idea to separate the bags with something that provides spacing, such as jar lid rings.

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Offlinejjb007

Registered: 10/03/08
Posts: 338
Loc: Near Philly
Last seen: 1 year, 4 months
Re: A few questions about growing edibles outdoors. [Re: denger]
    #9408261 - 12/10/08 06:23 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Thanks for clearing that up Denger... Now I have another question... this may be a bit of a noob question, but here goes: can you PC for too long?  Like would it be ok if I did 7 half pint jars for an hour just to be safe?

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Offlinedenger
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Registered: 09/19/08
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Re: A few questions about growing edibles outdoors. [Re: jjb007]
    #9408377 - 12/10/08 06:39 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Yes, you can PC for too long. Sugars in the sawdust can caramelize and become unusable by the mycelium. It takes a long time, something like 10 hours to reach 50% caramelization (I'm not 100% sure on the timeframe, but it it LONG). It is perfectly safe to go for 2 hours no matter how small your jars are. This is a balance between sufficient and too much. Thankfully, too much is a LOT of time.

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Offlinesolumvita
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Registered: 02/12/08
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Loc: South Africa
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Re: A few questions about growing edibles outdoors. [Re: denger]
    #9411512 - 12/11/08 08:45 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

I think that anything less than an hour is silly, you have spent all the energy to get up to temperature, so why waste it ? what would you save by taking it out at 30-45min, sure time but the risks of contam outweigh that saving.  Just a thought.


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