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InvisibleCDS
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Pasturizing in ziploc freezer bags??? & Necessity of gas exchange during pasteurization???
    #9399242 - 12/09/08 12:39 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

So I've been using the turkey-size oven bags to pasteurize my poostraw- and although they work great (other than an unpleasant incident where the bottom gave out and dropped 12qts of 160F poostraw on my feet), I was wondering if the ziploc gallon freezer bags would work equally well.

The great thing about the oven bags, as I understand, is that the tops of them can be left open and draped over the side of the pot so the steam can escape... Upon closer examination of this premise, I concluded that there shouldn't be any steam because the temp never reaches boiling- after all, pasteurization is supposed to not exceed 160F, so why would one need to leave the bag open to let steam escape?

Based on this hypothesis, I conjectured that one could fill ziploc bags with substrate, remove all the excess air, seal them and then stack them in the pot under a weight.

Would this work? Or do they need to have an opening above-water for something to escape?


Please don't mention the pillowcase method as an alternative, as I am using water-soluble ingredients and don't want to drastically alter the moisture content of my substrate.

The main reason I want to use something other than the oven bags is simply because they are so expensive- at $1 each, and needing to be double bagged, it seems that freezer bags would be a lot cheaper.

-Thanks

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OfflineBoris
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Re: Pasturizing in ziploc freezer bags??? & Necessity of gas exchange during pasteurization??? [Re: CDS]
    #9399262 - 12/09/08 12:44 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

When things are heated, gases are released, if the bag was fully sealed, it would eventually rupture under pressure. even tho you might not see these gasses coming out, there present.

I don't think freezer bags are heat resistant like the oven bags, and therefor would melt when pasteurized.

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InvisibleShr00mZ
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Re: Pasturizing in ziploc freezer bags??? & Necessity of gas exchange during pasteurization??? [Re: Boris]
    #9399318 - 12/09/08 12:53 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Just use a pillow case, it makes life easy. You may drip all over the house but owell dont walk across carpet.


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OfflineBasement Boy
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Re: Pasturizing in ziploc freezer bags??? & Necessity of gas exchange during pasteurization??? [Re: Boris]
    #9399367 - 12/09/08 12:58 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Agreed even though you may not reach close to the boiling point of water you have heated it enough to expand the air that is trapped inside the baggie. just to show the difference sometime take an empty 2 liter bottle. Fill it with hot water from your tap then pour out all the water and screw the top back on the bottle now all you have is a bottle filled with hot air. Set it off to the side and let it cool. When you come back to it you will see that the air has contracted so much that it will have sucked in the sides of the bottle.

I laughed when I read about your poo bomb onto you feet. I was fearing the same thing today as I carried in a big 30 gal trash bag half filled with heavy damp manure compost today from my friend farm. I would guess that it is somewhere near 50 lbs of compost. One good things about the turkey sized bags is I can almost promise you that you will see these on sale following the year end holidays. I saw some on sale shortly after Thanksgiving 3 boxes for $5.


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InvisibleGerman Kahuna
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Re: Pasturizing in ziploc freezer bags??? & Necessity of gas exchange during pasteurization??? [Re: Basement Boy]
    #9399380 - 12/09/08 01:01 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Using ziplock bags during pasteurizing or sterilizing = Welcome aboard the  :failboat:


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"Vegetarian" [ /ˌvedʒəˈteəriən/] - Ancient slang meaning "village idiot who can't hunt, fish or ride".

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Offlinedrjugglz
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Re: Pasturizing in ziploc freezer bags??? & Necessity of gas exchange during pasteurization??? [Re: Shr00mZ]
    #9399381 - 12/09/08 01:01 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

why not bring the substrate to field capacity for moisture then put it in a ovenbag? oven bags will with stand heat and wont burst.

double bagged? i never have double bagged oven bags. i just stick the bag on a cookie sheet.

ovenbags would be the easy way to go. no mess... just open them up and throw your grain in and cover back up.

plastic ziplock bags wont withstand heat and have potential for melting.


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“To use your head you have to go out of your mind.”
~ Timothy Leary

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OfflineBoris
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Re: Pasturizing in ziploc freezer bags??? & Necessity of gas exchange during pasteurization??? [Re: drjugglz]
    #9399403 - 12/09/08 01:05 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

drjugglz said:
why not bring the substrate to field capacity for moisture then put it in a ovenbag?




He stated thats what hes been using, but whats to find a cheaper alternative cause hes a penny pincher...


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AMU

Terence McKenna Said:
"We have to create culture, don't watch TV, don't read magazines, don't even listen to NPR. Create your own roadshow. The nexus of space and time where you are now is the most immediate sector of your universe, and if you're worrying about Michael Jackson or Bill Clinton or somebody else, then you are disempowered, you're giving it all away to icons, icons which are maintained by an electronic media so that you want to dress like X or have lips like Y. This is shit-brained, this kind of thinking. That is all cultural diversion, and what is real is you and your friends and your associations, your highs, your orgasms, your hopes, your plans, your fears. And we are told 'no', we're unimportant, we're peripheral. 'Get a degree, get a job, get a this, get a that.' And then you're a player, you don't want to even play in that game. You want to reclaim your mind and get it out of the hands of the cultural engineers who want to turn you into a half-baked moron consuming all this trash that's being manufactured out of the bones of a dying world."

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OfflineHybridprX
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Re: Pasturizing in ziploc freezer bags??? & Necessity of gas exchange during pasteurization??? [Re: Basement Boy]
    #9399404 - 12/09/08 01:06 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

If you do not want to hydrate the substrate while pasteurizing just stuff the ziplock bags with bulk and submerge them in a pot/tub of pre-boiled water for 90 minutes.

Will work fine.


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OfflineSpongiform
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Re: Pasturizing in ziploc freezer bags??? & Necessity of gas exchange during pasteurization??? [Re: HybridprX]
    #9399550 - 12/09/08 01:31 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

ziplock bags can survive boiling.  It's a great way to make an easy omelet.  Mix up your eggs/ingredients, pour into ziplock, boil for 10 or 15 minutes.  Open bag, dump out perfect omelet, eat.

However, ziplock bags will not survive a pc run. They will melt, even if wrapped in tinfoil.


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Spongiform's Plastic Tek - An Alternative to Glass
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InvisibleCDS
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Re: Pasturizing in ziploc freezer bags??? & Necessity of gas exchange during pasteurization??? [Re: Spongiform]
    #9400643 - 12/09/08 03:56 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Actually I did a test with one of the ziploc bags where I poured some boiling water in and sealed it up. It didn't melt... But if you are sure that there are gasses being released when heated to 160F then I guess that answers my question. Thanks

BTW a "penny pincher" would bitch about spending $1 a bag when he could get an inferior product for $.90, whereas you can get like a whole box of freezer bags for the same price as two oven bags, lol... And yes you do have to double bag them- the seal on the bottom of the bag is not sufficient to hold 12qt of sub after being soaked for 4 hours at 160F, I learned that when the shit hit the floor, so to speak :frown: Maybe that's only one out of however-many bags, but better not to take the chance IMO.

-THanks Again

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