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osirisra
Stranger
Registered: 11/28/08
Posts: 11
Last seen: 11 years, 7 months
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H2O2
#9338586 - 11/30/08 04:50 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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Anyone have any experience with using H2O2 and eliminating the Sterilizing process with the bulk spawn run method?
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J3illy
Trainee
Registered: 10/18/08
Posts: 3,344
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What do you mean by this? You can't sterilize any type of substrate with H2O2
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Cascadian
Feel like a Stranger
Registered: 09/13/08
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Re: H2O2 [Re: J3illy]
#9338647 - 11/30/08 04:57 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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In Stamets' GGMM he talks about using a peroxide bath to sterilize bulk substrates. I've never tried it, and only heard pretty shitty things about it. Heat pasteurizing isn't difficult, I'd stick with what works.
However, using peroxide in other aspects of growing has always been very beneficial to me. Occasionally I'll use a 1:10 peroxide:water bottle to mist everything instead of just water to keep contaminants down. Using a Qtip soaked in peroxide to spot-kill any contaminants also helps get a few more days out of a contaminated cake.
Peroxide doesn't damage mycelium but prevents contaminant spores from germinating and kills bacteria, so having it around is a pretty good idea.
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J3illy
Trainee
Registered: 10/18/08
Posts: 3,344
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Bulk substrates shouldn't be sterilized - rather pasteurized as you said. You want to keep the beneficial microbes alive.
And the only place peroxide really has in growing is to fight off cobweb. It won't kill other contams that you may have - and it does damage mycelium. It may not kill it, but it's not good for it by any means.
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seven
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Registered: 06/09/08
Posts: 1,478
Loc: north carolina
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Re: H2O2 [Re: J3illy]
#9339008 - 11/30/08 05:47 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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yeah id abandon the idea if i were you. just heat pasturize bulk subs @160f for an hour. there is alot of old outdated info out there. as the above post states: only use it for cobweb mold. and he is correct: it is harmful to mycelium + watering down three percent H2o2 makes it worthless!
-------------------- grind
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Psuper
Psilocybin
Registered: 02/12/08
Posts: 2,874
Loc: PNW
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Re: H2O2 [Re: seven]
#9339037 - 11/30/08 05:51 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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Only use peroxide to battle cobweb mold. Everyhting else proposed in this thread is outdated and WRONG. ~Pixie~
-------------------- Clinical Management of High Dose Psilocybin Sessions: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbHOTIqjZLk
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RogerRabbit
Bans for Pleasure
Registered: 03/26/03
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Quote:
Cascadian said:
Peroxide doesn't damage mycelium but prevents contaminant spores from germinating and kills bacteria, so having it around is a pretty good idea.
Actually, peroxide is extremely toxic to mushroom mycelium, so use it to control cobweb mold, but it has little other purpose for us. RR
-------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat "I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work." Thomas Edison
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Cascadian
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Wow. Looks like I'll be changing up my techniques a lot. When was peroxide disregarded? You guys say that information is outdated, could you point me towards a study or something to that effect? I'm not challenging you, I'm just really curious.
I've long been under the impressions outlined here:
Quote:
The peroxide radical is a reactive form of oxygen which attacks various organic compounds. In living cells, it damages the genetic material, cell membranes, and whatever else it finds to react with. By doing so, peroxide in sufficient concentration can kill bacteria, bacterial endospores, yeast, and spores of fungi, including mushroom spores. It apparently can also kill small airborne particles of fungi, and the contaminants associated with human skin cells, which are said to be continually flaking off of the mushroom cultivator. Hydrogen peroxide thus acts to some extent against all commonly-encountered airborne contaminants of mushroom culture, including mushroom spores themselves. By contrast, antibiotics generally act only against bacterial contamination, and fungicides act only against yeasts and fungi.
The beauty of peroxide is that it does not kill established mushroom mycelium or interfere with its growth and fruiting. Despite peroxide’s wide range of action against the common contaminants of mushroom culture, there is a relatively wide range of concentrations at which peroxide will allow the growth and fruiting of mushroom mycelium. The established mycelium, because of its ability to produce high levels of peroxide-decomposing enzymes, is evidently able to defend itself against much higher concentrations of peroxide radical than can isolated spores, cells or tiny fragments of multicellular organisms. So we can add hydrogen peroxide to mushroom cultures, and the mycelium will grow but the small contaminants will die.
http://www.thenook.org/archives/tek/Volume1.html#6A for example, although thats not where I first read about peroxide, I don't remember where I learned about it, but thats pretty much in line with my original impressions.
If that's wrong, what's the truth?
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osirisra
Stranger
Registered: 11/28/08
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I love how the last post just silences the thread
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German Kahuna
Facepalmer of Stoopid
Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 15,798
Loc: On a Chemical Vacation
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Silenced? Well, then you go right ahead and pay no attention to what RR says. It's not as if he has any experience under his belt or anything. Hey, who needs a pressure cooker anyways? Let's all soak in H2O2.
-------------------- "Vegetarian" [ /ˌvedʒəˈteəriən/] - Ancient slang meaning "village idiot who can't hunt, fish or ride".
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Cascadian
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My question is not about sterilizing or pasteurizing substrates with H2O2. I certainly have no faith in that. But I am curious about utilizing H2O2 as an all-purpose contaminant blaster, as I know some people use it as such, under the impression that it isn't harmful to mycelium. How is it harmful?
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German Kahuna
Facepalmer of Stoopid
Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 15,798
Loc: On a Chemical Vacation
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I have no idea, as I myself am by no means an experienced cultivator and have not conducted any scientific research on that matter. I just trust what RR says when it comes to cultivation. I am not doubting you and your source, either, I am just saying that the OP shouldn't be so convinced by your link, just because it's what he'd LIKE to see, as RR is saying otherwise.
-------------------- "Vegetarian" [ /ˌvedʒəˈteəriən/] - Ancient slang meaning "village idiot who can't hunt, fish or ride".
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seven
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Registered: 06/09/08
Posts: 1,478
Loc: north carolina
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if you read in that link it says that "the mycelium can defend itself against the peroxide." this means the mycelium wastes energy defending against peroxide! it is harmfull. why fix something that isnt broken? that energy could be better used producing fruits. it weakens your overall grow. so only use it when you get cobweb mold. i dont want my mycelium wasting energy defending against a chemical that may not be preventing anything. people have many succesfull grows with out preventative h2o2, that weakens\wastes energy of their mycelium. its like shooting yourself in the foot!
-------------------- grind
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J3illy
Trainee
Registered: 10/18/08
Posts: 3,344
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Re: H2O2 [Re: seven]
#9341757 - 12/01/08 01:21 AM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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^ Was just about to post something very similar. The mycelium will have to waste energy fighting off the oxidizing effects.
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Cascadian
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Re: H2O2 [Re: seven]
#9341772 - 12/01/08 01:25 AM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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That makes enough sense for me to accept it. I would still be interested in how.... exactly.... but yeah, why make 'em work any harder than they have to?
Reminding yourself that mushrooms do indeed grow outside without the use of tyvek, HEPA filters or even glass jars helps to keep things simple.
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seven
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Registered: 06/09/08
Posts: 1,478
Loc: north carolina
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-------------------- grind
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