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Invisibleit stars saddam
Satan

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Loc: Spahn Ranch
Common Themes in the "Psychedelic Experience"
    #9331860 - 11/29/08 12:33 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Why do you feel that it is that certain hallucinations and thought processes are so frequently reported by users of psychedelic drugs, despite vastly different personal histories?  One common example would be the hallucination of blood.  The first time I ever took LSD, I was standing under my deck smoking a cigarette because it was raining outdoors, and suddenly, in what some might call a "peak," I started hallucinating that it was blood that was raining from the sky and that it was forming in pools around my feet.  Blood has been a recurring theme in every one of my psychedelic experiences since, though I no longer find it frightening.  In his autobiography, The Long Hard Road Out of Hell, Marilyn Manson describes experiencing this exact same hallucination (raining blood) during his first acid trip, and I had not read the book until after I had tripped several times.  I've also read numerous trip reports on erowid describing the hallucination of blood.

This is just one of many examples, however.  I've heard several different people describe hallucinations of insects, usually spiders, as well as the sensation that insects are crawling all over their body or in their hair.  Also, the feeling that one is participating in a reenactment of the "hero's journey" has been reported by numerous subjects, even in the early days of psychedelic experimentation.

What are your thoughts as to why this phenomenon occurs?

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InvisibleMr Cyan
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Registered: 09/27/08
Posts: 626
Re: Common Themes in the "Psychedelic Experience" [Re: it stars saddam]
    #9331880 - 11/29/08 12:36 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Native American motifs, etc. seem to be a part of many peoples experiences. Though I do not think this is coincidental, because I always see "Aztec" art patterns from 2C-E, LSD, etc. This is no coincidence, because the Aztecs were inspired by these patterns from their own use of mushrooms, in their culture.

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Invisibleit stars saddam
Satan

Registered: 05/19/05
Posts: 15,571
Loc: Spahn Ranch
Re: Common Themes in the "Psychedelic Experience" [Re: it stars saddam]
    #9331995 - 11/29/08 12:58 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

I remember reading William S. Burroughs' description of his experience with peyote (I forget which book it was) in which he claimed that "everything looked like peyote buttons."

This leads me to question whether the thoughts and visuals of the psychedelic experience are manifestations of archetypal themes in the "collective unconscious," or if they are inherent in the chemicals themselves.

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InvisibleMr Cyan
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Re: Common Themes in the "Psychedelic Experience" [Re: it stars saddam]
    #9332007 - 11/29/08 01:00 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Visuals are random entopic placements, which our mind (which can only recognize symbols) desperately tries to recognize. The same thing happens to people who get into a trance, & have visions. Or fast, or sleep deprive for visions. It's our brain sending out random visual signals, but we desperately try to find symbols, & meaning in it.

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OfflineSolomonTheShaman
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Re: Common Themes in the "Psychedelic Experience" [Re: Mr Cyan]
    #9332046 - 11/29/08 01:07 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

You're not necessarily correct, Mr. Cyan.  While it may be a simple physiological explanation as to why visions, trances, and hallucinations take place, it's not proven.  In fact, many who have studied chemicals like LSD, DMT, and psilocybin aren't %100 sure what's going on.  Take the Pineal gland for example.  Read some stuff by Dr. Rick Strassman or anything by Terrance or Dennis McKenna.

As far as similar experiences despite no similarities in background or upbringing amongst people, who knows?  I however, think there's a lot more at work going on than just our brain during those experiences.  The soul and spirit play a big part into that whole process. 

Good post saddam!


--------------------
"Live as if you were to die tomorrow. Learn as if you were to live forever."

-Mohandas Gandhi

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InvisibleMr Cyan
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Re: Common Themes in the "Psychedelic Experience" [Re: SolomonTheShaman]
    #9332093 - 11/29/08 01:18 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Of course. But that's like saying the universe is a speck of dust under somebodies couch... Anything is possible, & everything is "unexplainable". But if we want to try & explain something then you must start somewhere. I didn't just read this on the internet, I learned this from a well-educated anthropologist at my university who has done studying on trancing, & the use of psychedelics among cultures. If you want to think in a fundamental mindset, then it only makes sense that what we are seeing is our brain making systematic recognitions of random phenomena... Just like we do everyday.
I'm no believe in anything "fundamental", but it's still something to think about. I have much faith in the Mystery, the spirit, the soul etc. I was only answering the above posters question of "if they are inherent in the chemicals themselves".
The world is in no way "black, & white", it's completely objective. But we can still try to understand things systematically, so that we can explain it to those who are still stuck in fundamental thought.

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Invisibleit stars saddam
Satan

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Re: Common Themes in the "Psychedelic Experience" [Re: it stars saddam]
    #9333993 - 11/29/08 07:42 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Shameless bump because I feel that this topic warrants far more discussion.

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OfflineLSDXM
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Re: Common Themes in the "Psychedelic Experience" [Re: it stars saddam]
    #9334235 - 11/29/08 08:38 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

I think the reason behind this is that there are fundamental aspects of nature that are common to all things.

For example, the golden ratio

Quote:

The Golden Ratio is a universal law in which is contained the ground-principle of all formative striving for beauty and completeness in the realms of both nature and art, and which permeates, as a paramount spiritual ideal, all structures, forms and proportions, whether cosmic or individual, organic or inorganic, acoustic or optical; which finds its fullest realization, however, in the human form.





Obviously Marilyn Manson saw blood during his first acid trip. It's Manson.
Things ALWAYS look like insects to me; trees and bushes are usually like mantises or stick bugs (...obviously), hair on my arms/legs looks like six legged spiders etcetera, mostly because of my intense fear of spiders
Clouds always look like these things:

squared, because that's how I view reality, a conscious organism with every fraction, no matter how minute, having its own little chunk of awareness. Everything is faces for me because that's how I think of it when I'm sober, so when I take a chemical that induces visual distortions, that's the filter my understanding puts it through

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OfflineLSDreamer
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Re: Common Themes in the "Psychedelic Experience" [Re: LSDXM]
    #9334606 - 11/29/08 10:32 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Our brains are pretty similar. These drugs act similarly in each person. Not too surprising the same drug produces similar experiences in people.


--------------------

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OfflineUziSuicide
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Re: Common Themes in the "Psychedelic Experience" [Re: LSDreamer]
    #9334674 - 11/29/08 10:46 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

who else sees these crazy patterns everywhere, well on psychedelics.

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OfflineLSDXM
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Re: Common Themes in the "Psychedelic Experience" [Re: UziSuicide]
    #9334677 - 11/29/08 10:46 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

UziSuicide said:
who else sees these crazy patterns everywhere, well on psychedelics.




O_o


--------------------

The number of times I edit my post is directly related to the number of times I've hit the bong :bonghit2:

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OfflineD LYS3RG1C
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Re: Common Themes in the "Psychedelic Experience" [Re: it stars saddam]
    #9336221 - 11/30/08 08:42 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

it stars saddam said:
Why do you feel that it is that certain hallucinations and thought processes are so frequently reported by users of psychedelic drugs, despite vastly different personal histories?  One common example would be the hallucination of blood.  The first time I ever took LSD, I was standing under my deck smoking a cigarette because it was raining outdoors, and suddenly, in what some might call a "peak," I started hallucinating that it was blood that was raining from the sky and that it was forming in pools around my feet.  Blood has been a recurring theme in every one of my psychedelic experiences since, though I no longer find it frightening.  In his autobiography, The Long Hard Road Out of Hell, Marilyn Manson describes experiencing this exact same hallucination (raining blood) during his first acid trip, and I had not read the book until after I had tripped several times.  I've also read numerous trip reports on erowid describing the hallucination of blood.

This is just one of many examples, however.  I've heard several different people describe hallucinations of insects, usually spiders, as well as the sensation that insects are crawling all over their body or in their hair.  Also, the feeling that one is participating in a reenactment of the "hero's journey" has been reported by numerous subjects, even in the early days of psychedelic experimentation.

What are your thoughts as to why this phenomenon occurs?




I only take LSD nowadays, but I've had fucking gnarly mushroom trips before, to the point where I could not think a thought or even talk.
What is odd is that I've never had straight hallucinations (meaning something that is not really there) with LSD. Sure reality would seem distorted, but I would never see objects that aren't really there such as insects and whatnot. I would not call the trip an unreality at all, I would call it a new reality. My trips consist of a lot of intense geometry and complex thought patterns that seem to fold back on themselves.

I think the reason that certain 'hallucinations'(I don't like that word) and thought processes occur is because we are of the same species. Our brains are wired basically the same. There are people who have their brains wired differently, they are called synesthetes . They experience constant synesthesia. But acid trips unlock more than just synesthesia.


--------------------
Complexity is intelligent, simplicity is genius.

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OfflineSolomonTheShaman
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Re: Common Themes in the "Psychedelic Experience" [Re: D LYS3RG1C]
    #9339923 - 11/30/08 08:04 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

This has been one of the best threads on here in a while.  I love rational discussion!  :smile:


--------------------
"Live as if you were to die tomorrow. Learn as if you were to live forever."

-Mohandas Gandhi

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Offlinetempingasashaman
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Re: Common Themes in the "Psychedelic Experience" [Re: SolomonTheShaman]
    #9339969 - 11/30/08 08:09 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

LSD and faces
Mushrooms and dinosaurs


--------------------
the greatest use of life is to spend it on something that will outlast it

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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Re: Common Themes in the "Psychedelic Experience" [Re: tempingasashaman]
    #9340083 - 11/30/08 08:25 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

I feel like much of the visual content of a trip is synthesized after the fact; cognition and perception are overstimulated and extrapolate more details from sensory data than are present. This process seems inextricably tied to the similarly imaginative activity of dreaming, which is also known to draw its themes and motifs from the collective unconscious.

On the other hand, much artwork has been influenced by the more raw, biological phenomena of the trip, such as the appearance of form constants and fractals underlying the more-embellished, more detailed surface of the visuals.

I suppose it's a two-way street; like the mind reaches into its disembodied collection of remembered textures, art, surfaces, details, and mythology in order to fill in the big gaps in sensory input. This is how cognition and senses remain synchronized during a trip in spite of the excessive stimulation of the former. It also provides a big, fat, visible synaesthetic window into the chaotic inner workings of the unconscious mind.

I hope I explained it all right, that's just how I've come to see it. :shrug:


--------------------
Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.


Edited by Tchan909 (11/30/08 08:30 PM)

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Offlinepfxtc
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Re: Common Themes in the "Psychedelic Experience" [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #9340168 - 11/30/08 08:35 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Kinda random but before I started using psychedelics I assumed this is what each drug would produce visually:

I thought acid was like, every direction you look has a different path, and you can either go down that path and explore or go down another path etc,

and I thought mushrooms would produce tigger and winnie the poo and pink elephants trampling over me,

I was completely wrong on both of them, but their still very cool :smile:

although pink elephants would be nice :smile:


--------------------

koods said:
Young male going by the name "Bassfreak" entered Worcester General complaining of a sharp pain in his buttock region after attending EDM event. Attending physician considered a possible diagnosis of acute rave anus, but upon further investigation it was determined there was nothing cute about patient's anus.

Life-long trip report

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OfflineD LYS3RG1C
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Re: Common Themes in the "Psychedelic Experience" [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #9340643 - 11/30/08 09:54 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Tchan909 said:
I feel like much of the visual content of a trip is synthesized after the fact; cognition and perception are overstimulated and extrapolate more details from sensory data than are present. This process seems inextricably tied to the similarly imaginative activity of dreaming, which is also known to draw its themes and motifs from the collective unconscious.

On the other hand, much artwork has been influenced by the more raw, biological phenomena of the trip, such as the appearance of form constants and fractals underlying the more-embellished, more detailed surface of the visuals.

I suppose it's a two-way street; like the mind reaches into its disembodied collection of remembered textures, art, surfaces, details, and mythology in order to fill in the big gaps in sensory input. This is how cognition and senses remain synchronized during a trip in spite of the excessive stimulation of the former. It also provides a big, fat, visible synaesthetic window into the chaotic inner workings of the unconscious mind.

I hope I explained it all right, that's just how I've come to see it. :shrug:




Nice philosophy :wink:

I like how you have "Meddle" as your little picture. Omg Fearless is such a sick song.


--------------------
Complexity is intelligent, simplicity is genius.

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Offlinemaysrome
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Re: Common Themes in the "Psychedelic Experience" [Re: D LYS3RG1C]
    #9340693 - 11/30/08 10:04 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

I've only read the original posts, and none of the following, simply because I want to spit this out real quick before I get off subject.

- A friend of mine the first time he tripped looked at another friend and blood was pouring from his mouth in his mind.

- On a mushroom trip, I had a closed eye visual journey of mechanical spiders ruling the world in a matrix type of reality, with us all hooked into machinery.

- The heroes journey, tons of reports of such.

I believe this all has a significant amount to do with Carl Jung's theouries of the collective unconscious.


--------------------
Es muss sein?!

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OfflineChildoftheKoRn
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Re: Common Themes in the "Psychedelic Experience" [Re: maysrome]
    #9341211 - 11/30/08 11:37 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

How about the constant presence of female figures on DMT trips?

Id like to hear from someone who sees male entities


--------------------
"With your feet on the air and your head on the ground
Try this trick and spin it, yeah
Your head will collapse if there's nothing in it
And you'll ask yourself"


"Where is my mind?"


-------------------------

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OfflineLSDXM
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Re: Common Themes in the "Psychedelic Experience" [Re: ChildoftheKoRn]
    #9343115 - 12/01/08 10:36 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

I've only done a well-below-breakthrough dose, so I don't know if these really are the "self transforming machine elves" that everyone talks about, but I've always seen them on every drug I've ever done (even non-tryptamines, just most prominent on them), and they're always male;
The clouds were as I described above^^
There was a male presence; it seemed like it was a very large, all-encompassing figure with a gelly membrane that I wasn't going to break through, and thousands of arms; it was a very distinct Man Presence.

But this is very skewed because it also seemed like me. It seemed more like me when I was coming up, and then coming down. When I was peaking it seemed to become more autonomous.


--------------------

The number of times I edit my post is directly related to the number of times I've hit the bong :bonghit2:

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