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 dr_gonz
Registered: 08/18/03
Posts: 44,654
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#9315514 - 11/26/08 07:22 AM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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 Justice_Fish
Fustice_Jish
Registered: 01/06/07
Posts: 2,652
Loc: CebèuQ
Last seen: 7 years, 6 months
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Re: Why we shoudn't celebrate Thanksgiving [Re: dr_gonz]
#9315530 - 11/26/08 07:28 AM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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very good read
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Le_Canard
The Duk Abides
Registered: 05/16/03
Posts: 94,392
Loc: Earthfarm 1 
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Re: Why we shoudn't celebrate Thanksgiving [Re: dr_gonz]
#9315544 - 11/26/08 07:36 AM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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What can I say? I like turkey. 
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MOTH
Wild Woman
Registered: 06/06/03
Posts: 23,431
Loc: In the jungle
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Re: Why we shoudn't celebrate Thanksgiving [Re: dr_gonz]
#9315551 - 11/26/08 07:41 AM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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I will be fasting on Thanksgiving day. But I don't eat turkey either.
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blewmeanie
Registered: 10/01/06
Posts: 28,984
Loc:
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Re: Why we shoudn't celebrate Thanksgiving [Re: MOTH] 2
#9315571 - 11/26/08 07:51 AM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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This thread should be titled "why dr_gonz should never be invited over for dinner".
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WhiskeyClone
Not here
Registered: 06/25/01
Posts: 16,509
Loc: Longitudinal Center of Canada ...
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Re: Why we shoudn't celebrate Thanksgiving [Re: dr_gonz] 1
#9315669 - 11/26/08 08:29 AM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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Holidays usually lose their original meaning anyway and pick up a new cultural meaning. Christmas isn't about Jesus, it's about gifts and trees. Thanksgiving isn't about pilgrims and gratitude, it's about turkey and family get-togethers and football. I think there is value in these newer traditions. Why atone thanksgiving atrocities and not others? And why just one day? Why not spend our whole lives apologizing for the indefensible actions of our ancestors?
IMO, celebrating with your friends and family is a more loving act than rejecting that tradition.
He makes some good points but I think he's making a common mistake: he is trying to address a tiny part of a much bigger problem, as if it is the whole problem.
Quote:
The general answer to that question is simple, though often difficult to put into practice: We must keep speaking honestly, as often as possible, in as many venues as possible. We must resist the conventional wisdom. We must reject the cultural amnesia. We must refuse to be polite when politeness means capitulation to lies.
Here is the problem: people are generally not honest. Not with themselves, and not with others. Our culture is created by our values, and right now people value comfort and security more than honesty. C'est la vie, we're not perfect. Changing cultural traditions is not going to reverse that hardwired tendency in people. It can only work the other way around. Culture is the cart, personal values are the horse.
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Welcome evermore to gods and men is the self-helping man. For him all doors are flung wide: him all tongues greet, all honors crown, all eyes follow with desire. Our love goes out to him and embraces him, because he did not need it.
~ R.W. Emerson, "Self-Reliance"
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DieCommie
Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Re: Why we shoudn't celebrate Thanksgiving [Re: dr_gonz] 1
#9315676 - 11/26/08 08:32 AM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
dr_gonz said:
Can't say I argue with this:
http://www.alternet.org/story/68170/
I can. Liberals try to shove white guilt down our throats, but Im not gonna accept responsibility for something I didnt do. Fuck that article, its racist garbage.
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niteowl
GrandPaw
Registered: 07/01/03
Posts: 16,291
Loc:
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Re: Why we shoudn't celebrate Thanksgiving [Re: DieCommie]
#9315678 - 11/26/08 08:34 AM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
DieCommie said:
Im not gonna accept responsibility for something I didnt do. Fuck that article, its racist garbage.
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Live for the moment you are in nowDon't be bogged down by your pastDon't be afraid of what lies in your future
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Brainiac
Rogue Scientist
Registered: 04/29/06
Posts: 13,259
Loc: 與您的女朋
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Re: Why we shoudn't celebrate Thanksgiving [Re: blewmeanie]
#9315690 - 11/26/08 08:37 AM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
blewmeanie said:
This thread should be titled "why dr_gonz should never be invited over for dinner".
Damn, everyone's so PC.
It's only been a real USA holiday since 1941...
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 Fair is Fair 
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vampirism
Stranger
Registered: 03/14/04
Posts: 8,120
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Re: Why we shoudn't celebrate Thanksgiving [Re: dr_gonz]
#9315701 - 11/26/08 08:42 AM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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It is odd to paint Thanksgiving as the celebration of genocide. And to turn it into a fasting period? How masochistic of us!
Is it so hard for us to accept the crimes of the past, and still embrace ourselves and our future? It happened. But it is fool-hearted to spend our days in misery, where instead we can find hope.
This article was written by a person in a victimized state of mind, who is trying to justify that state of mind.
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Penguarky Tunguin
f n o r d
Registered: 08/08/04
Posts: 17,192
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Re: Why we shoudn't celebrate Thanksgiving [Re: dr_gonz]
#9315710 - 11/26/08 08:46 AM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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Yeah, no thanks. I don't really want a day to acknowledge a genocide. Sounds depressing and the US does not need any more depression. 
I agree with WhiskeyClone, the meaning of these holidays has changed from their original meaning and are now part of the American culture. Which is fine, it's a sort of cultural evolution.
I didn't do and I don't want to be reminded of it.
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Every mistake, intentional or otherwise, in the above post, is the fault of the reader.
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RoosterCogburn
Fearless,one-eyed U.S.Marshall
Registered: 08/25/06
Posts: 8,508
Loc: Dirty South, NJ
Last seen: 12 years, 7 months
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Re: Why we shoudn't celebrate Thanksgiving [Re: vampirism]
#9315714 - 11/26/08 08:47 AM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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Indians were not as nice and helpful as movies and stories make it seem... Many were savage motherfuckers. The colonists were no angels, but times were different then. Fuck em.
I too feel no remorse for shit that happened long ago by people who WERE NOT ME. 
I think turkey is shit however, so I'm taking my father to a very expensive Italian place. 
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vampirism
Stranger
Registered: 03/14/04
Posts: 8,120
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Re: Why we shoudn't celebrate Thanksgiving [Re: WhiskeyClone]
#9315717 - 11/26/08 08:49 AM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
WhiskeyClone said:
Here is the problem: people are generally not honest. Not with themselves, and not with others. Our culture is created by our values, and right now people value comfort and security more than honesty. C'est la vie, we're not perfect. Changing cultural traditions is not going to reverse that hardwired tendency in people. It can only work the other way around. Culture is the cart, personal values are the horse.
I agreed with much of what you were saying, but this part stuck out to me.
A commitment to honesty, I think, is the foundation for security. If we ignore honesty while seeking security and comfort, we will be fostering false security and comfort -- the kind that comes back to kick us in the ass.
I'll be the first to say that we all live in a sick society, maybe not community -- but society yes. The only way out that I see is through honesty, integrity and commitment.
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Psilo_Subliminal
Delta
Registered: 12/10/07
Posts: 1,494
Loc: Dagobah
Last seen: 9 years, 6 months
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Re: Why we shoudn't celebrate Thanksgiving [Re: DieCommie]
#9315726 - 11/26/08 08:51 AM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
DieCommie said:
Quote:
dr_gonz said:
Can't say I argue with this:
http://www.alternet.org/story/68170/
I can. Liberals try to shove white guilt down our throats, but Im not gonna accept responsibility for something I didnt do. Fuck that article, its racist garbage.
Damn Straight! 
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"Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one."
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Cowgold
Bullshit
Registered: 04/04/05
Posts: 12,486
Loc: .
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Re: Why we shoudn't celebrate Thanksgiving [Re: WhiskeyClone]
#9315751 - 11/26/08 08:59 AM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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Very well put, Whiskey.
It's a great article, but I agree with Whiskey... Football, food and family is definitely what I'm thankful for.
:pilgrim:
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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs
Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 44,175
Last seen: 5 months, 27 days
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Re: Why we shoudn't celebrate Thanksgiving [Re: Cowgold]
#9315794 - 11/26/08 09:10 AM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
It's a great article, but I agree with Whiskey... Football, food and family is definitely what I'm thankful for.
QFT
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dr_gonz
Registered: 08/18/03
Posts: 44,654
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Irdamage
Autobot
Registered: 11/19/05
Posts: 1,491
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 7 years, 4 months
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Re: Why we shoudn't celebrate Thanksgiving [Re: dr_gonz]
#9315821 - 11/26/08 09:18 AM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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Surprisingly a well written article and a good read. Sort of questions the nature of how people tend to structure their personal beliefs and personal "reality" if you will.
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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs
Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 44,175
Last seen: 5 months, 27 days
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Re: Why we shoudn't celebrate Thanksgiving [Re: dr_gonz]
#9315829 - 11/26/08 09:20 AM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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I don't care if you like football. That is totally irrelevant to me enjoying it.
I am thankful for my family everyday, but since we are spread all across the US, I rarely get to see them. Thanksgiving is one of those few times since everyone has work off.
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Amber_Glow
Sat Chit Anand
Registered: 09/02/02
Posts: 1,543
Last seen: 11 years, 1 month
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Re: Why we shoudn't celebrate Thanksgiving [Re: dr_gonz]
#9315868 - 11/26/08 09:37 AM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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Would you prefer if we were simply more honest about it, the way we are with Victory Over Japan Day?
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