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InvisibleShockValue
Because, ShockValue.


Registered: 11/18/08
Posts: 5,097
Loc: Tipping at windmills.
Introduction and Amanita Question
    #9265356 - 11/18/08 11:01 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

First of all, i just wanted to say hello and introduce myself to this cool community.  Its been a very long time since Ive explored the world of psychedelics, but a recent chain of events has led me back here.

Ive gotten very interested in mushrooms lately.  Not just the "good" kinds, but all of them.  Ive been making lots of trips into the woods and local parks picking different specimines and spending hours researching what Ive found.  So far Ive found lots of not-too-interesting types, Ive found a few that were exceptional in salads and ommlettes, and just recently Ive found a large patch of Amanita Muscarias (Fly Agarics)

At first I thought I would just dry them for ornamentation (my wife likes to do arts/crafts type of things) so I set up a "wind tunnel" with one of those kids colorful "crawl through me" type of toys and a small space heater blowing air down the tube.  Using a probe thermometer, the air inside the tube was about 85-90F, and the drying process took about 2 days for the larger shrooms.  But the results were very cool looking.  The bright red and orange tops turned very metallic looking.

Anyway.. My brain started to wander, and then my research led me here (along with many other places.)  Do I want to try eating one of these guys?

Yes...  But I really am not interested in "tripping balls" or anything heroic like that.  Like I said, Its been a very long time since any experience with psychedelics (like 15 years since my last few LSD/Cubies trips)

So I decided to try a test based on the info I could glean off the web..

I took one of the small dried Amanita Muscarias and broke off half the cap.  I would estimate the size of that was half of a 2 inch circle.  I broke it up into very small peices, and steeped it in water that started about 190F.  I put a lid on it and let it steep for about 30 minutes.

I drank half the liquid in about 15 minutes.  I noticed a slight numbing/metalic taste in my mouth, but it was mild and only lasted a minute or 2.

Then I got chicken.. "What if Im doing something totally stupid and end up tripping like mad or getting really sick..." I thought to myself.  (Remember, Im just a newly initiated mushroom hunter.)

30 More minutes passed and nothing happened, so I finished the rest of my tea (including the mushroom chunks). 

I cant say for certain anything at all happened.  But there were a few moments over the next 2 hours or so that "i didnt quite feel right."  At one point the TV looked a bit more vivid, and walking down the stairs at one point "felt weird", kind of like my legs werent the same length that the normally were. 

I have this sneaky suspicion it was totally just placebo.


Anyway, now that Ive rambled on for hours and youve all stopped reading about this wussy straight guy, heres my question.

1: Was my technique for drying and then steeping them in 190F water correct?  Was that just a waste of time/material?

At this time Im purely looking for the sedative/nacid/euphoria enhancement that these mushrooms can potentially provide.  I have no immediate plans to leave this plane of existance.

2: Assuming #1 isnt stupid, what kind of "tea" dose am I looking at to get a mild but noticable sensation?  Im talking like a Level 0.75 or something until Im comfortable with what to expect :smile:


Thanks for making it through my wall of text.

Peace

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OfflineHugaDeadHead
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Registered: 11/09/06
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Re: Introduction and Amanita Question [Re: ShockValue]
    #9265413 - 11/18/08 11:20 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

continue eating a bit more until level seeking obtained.

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InvisibledeCypher
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Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
Re: Introduction and Amanita Question [Re: ShockValue]
    #9265417 - 11/18/08 11:22 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

It's considered customary to dry Amanita Muscaria for at least thirty minutes at 170-200 degrees Fahrenheit to completely convert the neurotoxic ibotenic acid over to muscimol.

As ibotenic acid produces brain lesions when directly injected into neural tissue, and there are some signs towards active transport of orally ingested ibotenic acid through the blood-brain barrier, I would feel much safer eating Amanitas only after having completely dried them at the recommended temperature.


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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InvisibleShockValue
Because, ShockValue.


Registered: 11/18/08
Posts: 5,097
Loc: Tipping at windmills.
Re: Introduction and Amanita Question [Re: deCypher]
    #9265496 - 11/18/08 11:41 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

deCypher -

Thanks for that information.  That's partially why I dropped my Amanita chips into 190'F water for 30 minutes.  Do you think that method is proper for converting the Ibotenic Acid to Muscimol, or is the oven drying technique better?

Also, does it seem like it would be worthwhile to put my currently dried amanitas in the oven at 170-200 for a while if the "tea" method isn't good?


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  • When we built temples to view the stars, we knew about all 2000 of them.

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InvisibledeCypher
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Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
Re: Introduction and Amanita Question [Re: ShockValue]
    #9265504 - 11/18/08 11:43 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

As far as I know, heating in water is fine so long as you're over 170 degrees.

Enjoy, and combine with some ganja to make getting into trance states/OBEs a bit easier.  :mushroom2:


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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InvisibleEntropymancer
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Registered: 07/16/05
Posts: 10,207
Re: Introduction and Amanita Question [Re: ShockValue]
    #9265778 - 11/18/08 12:48 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Your preparation technique sounds fine.

Frankly I've really been enjoying low doses of fly agaric since they came into season this year. I just sautee up some mushroom (about 1/5th or 1/4th of a medium cap) and add it to my meal. They're absolutely delicious with eggs, meat, or cheese, or in sauces. It takes very little to bring out an excellent flavor in soups.

I find this sort of low-dose amanita is a very nice pick-me-up. Check out this entry from warriorsoul's journal for more info on that.

I prefer the flavor of fresh mushrooms to dried, but I have been drying some of my picks so that I'll still have some left when the season is over. Also, I've pickled several caps to keep them fresh for a few months. I'm hoping my patches continue producing so I can lay in a store of this tonic that will last me through the coming year (I'm really quite taken my this mushroom, both in flavor and effect).

If you want to be on the safe side, you can always prepare your amanita food or beverage with garlic, which contains S-allyl-l-cysteine, a chemical which protects against possible side-effects of ibotenic acid.

As to the dosage for your desired effect, it can vary a lot depending on the potency of the mushroom (A muscaria potency seems to be fairly variable).  The best way to go about this would be to grind your dried mushrooms together (to standarize the potency), then work your way up in dosage. (I believe there's some dosage recommendations in the link I posted above as well)

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InvisibleShockValue
Because, ShockValue.


Registered: 11/18/08
Posts: 5,097
Loc: Tipping at windmills.
Re: Introduction and Amanita Question [Re: Entropymancer]
    #9267038 - 11/18/08 04:31 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

I appreciate the input everyone.  I think this weekend I will do a bit more expirimenting, gradually increasing the dose until I feel something.

It'll probably take me a while, because I really am trying to avoid one of those "oh shit i took too much" moments :crazy2:


--------------------
  • When we built temples to view the stars, we knew about all 2000 of them.

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Offlinethizzi
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Registered: 09/22/08
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Re: Introduction and Amanita Question [Re: ShockValue]
    #9267132 - 11/18/08 04:45 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

hey today I found a patch of aminitas while out looking for cyans. I counted 47 of all different sizes. Now im on doing research about trips and dosage levels. I think I might go pick them:D Ill post the pics I took . I herd the aminitas trip is a different feel. I hear people saying they feel a bit Drunk? And I see web sights selling aminita caps. Is the stem not active or something?

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InvisibleEntropymancer
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Posts: 10,207
Re: Introduction and Amanita Question [Re: thizzi]
    #9268313 - 11/18/08 07:26 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

The stem is active, but it is much weaker and maggots can often be found munching it from within. I also find it useful to cut away a portion of the gills, expecially in older specimens, to make sure they're not full of mites.

The experience is nothing like psilocybin. There is a somewhat drunk-like character to it at higher doses, you become uncoordinated. It's been a while since I've taken a larger dose, though I'll probably be doing so before too long.

Be aware that there are some Amanita muscaria lookalikes in North America; I'm not aware of any on the west coast (where I assume you are if you were hunting cyans), and I'm not aware of any red- or orange-capped Amanitas with white spots being fatally toxic, but it never hurts to be 100% sure of what you're picking. For details on identifying muscaria and differentiating it from lookalikes (in North America), check out my Amanita Hunting journal entry.

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Offlinethizzi
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Registered: 09/22/08
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Re: Introduction and Amanita Question [Re: thizzi]
    #9269589 - 11/18/08 10:24 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Do I want to pick the ones that are still with caps closed only?

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InvisibleEntropymancer
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Re: Introduction and Amanita Question [Re: thizzi]
    #9269653 - 11/18/08 10:36 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Nah, I usually leave those younger ones alone to give them time to grow and mature. I try to pick them within a few days of the cap opening; I want them to be mature, but also want to get to them before the bugs, slugs, and maggots. I've read that they're best picked after a couple dry days in which they've had time to cure in the sun, but of course this isn't always possible.

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InvisibleShockValue
Because, ShockValue.


Registered: 11/18/08
Posts: 5,097
Loc: Tipping at windmills.
Re: Introduction and Amanita Question [Re: Entropymancer]
    #9270095 - 11/18/08 11:59 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

The area in which I'm currently picking is tough because it's public.  It's a real balancing act between letting the mushrooms mature enough and some moron kicking/stomping on it.

The last pick was hard because there was a very large egg coming out, but it was right next to a path... I went ahead and plucked it because I wouldn't be able to get back for quite a few days to get it at maturity.

Hopefully I haven't displeased the gods or slimmed the crop of next year :smile:


--------------------
  • When we built temples to view the stars, we knew about all 2000 of them.

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InvisibleEntropymancer
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Registered: 07/16/05
Posts: 10,207
Re: Introduction and Amanita Question [Re: ShockValue]
    #9270261 - 11/19/08 12:25 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Yeah, you probably didn't slim the next year's crop much. I think Amanita muscaria tends to have a pretty healthy mycelial network. It's mostly out of superstition that I leave a couple mushrooms in each patch to sporulate and return to the earth (usually because other critters got the them first).

I know what you mean about public patches, one of the nearby patches that I harvest from is in a grocery store parking lot. It's always a tough call whether to give the mushroom the opportunity to grow, or just pick it young since it's apt to get kicked over by a passerby.

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Invisiblethedudenj
Man of the Woods

Registered: 08/18/04
Posts: 14,684
Re: Introduction and Amanita Question [Re: Entropymancer]
    #9270362 - 11/19/08 12:46 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

do new people ever read old forum threads ever they say there researched ussually but never bother to read em. Like im starting to expect them to add info like so and so said this blah blah...


--------------------

"You all are just  puppets... You have no heart...and cannot feel any pain...""
you may think thats pain you feel but you must have a heart to feel true pain and that pain wont be yours

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InvisibleEntropymancer
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Registered: 07/16/05
Posts: 10,207
Re: Introduction and Amanita Question [Re: thedudenj]
    #9270376 - 11/19/08 12:49 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Hey man, you ain't really one to talk. I've read your old threads on Amanitas, and it's pretty damn difficult to make heads or tails of them.

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Invisiblethedudenj
Man of the Woods

Registered: 08/18/04
Posts: 14,684
Re: Introduction and Amanita Question [Re: Entropymancer]
    #9270430 - 11/19/08 01:01 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

lol ^.^ shrug the people that makes heads of em get heddie from em ^.^  amanita are totally heddie ^.^



hmm if your really bent up on my writing then take advice from some one that read it and understand and then said wow amanita are great! or the shroomerite i taught about them in person ^.^


--------------------

"You all are just  puppets... You have no heart...and cannot feel any pain...""
you may think thats pain you feel but you must have a heart to feel true pain and that pain wont be yours

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InvisibleEntropymancer
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Registered: 07/16/05
Posts: 10,207
Re: Introduction and Amanita Question [Re: thedudenj]
    #9270453 - 11/19/08 01:08 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

I've already discovered how great amanitas are, my head is nicely warm and fuzzy from my after-dinner cap this evening.

It's not that I'm bent up on your writing, it's just that it seems like you have good things to say, but consistently fail to express yourself in a manner that can be understood.

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InvisibleShockValue
Because, ShockValue.


Registered: 11/18/08
Posts: 5,097
Loc: Tipping at windmills.
Re: Introduction and Amanita Question [Re: Entropymancer]
    #9270529 - 11/19/08 01:32 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

thedudenj - I understand your critisizm.  Most of my questions were partially answered in a scattering of posts in this forum and around the web.  Just call me paranoid, I was just seeking confirmation before I put some strange substance down my throat. 

Entropymancer - I appreciate the help, info, and links.

I finished off the other half of that cap plus the stem and base about 2 hours ago... Got a slight body sensation (I don't think I'd call it a "high"), so I know they're doing SOMETHING... Just working out dosage still :smile:


--------------------
  • When we built temples to view the stars, we knew about all 2000 of them.

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OfflineThe Centre
I am
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Registered: 10/04/08
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Re: Introduction and Amanita Question [Re: ShockValue]
    #9271105 - 11/19/08 07:18 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Eat twice as much, and see how you feel, if that isn't satisfactory, add like 1/2 of that amount and see how you feel. Keep on adding no more than 2g at a time, until you get to where you want to be. You can eat 10g and not "leave this plane of existence". Breakthroughs only happen at very high doses.

Try 5g, it would probably be satisfactory, and still give you a mild "trip", but not all too much.

I'd grow some cubies if I where you though.

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InvisibleShockValue
Because, ShockValue.


Registered: 11/18/08
Posts: 5,097
Loc: Tipping at windmills.
Re: Introduction and Amanita Question [Re: The Centre]
    #9271382 - 11/19/08 08:59 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

I've done cubies, and if I were looking for a real trip I'd be doing it :smile:  The amanitas have a few things going for them that's keeping me interested:

1:  The reported "good mood" felt at low dosage.
2:  They're free and in large numbers around my area.
3:  They're pretty unique.  I can honestly say I'm the only person I know "in real life" that's even considered eating these things...

It's fun to pick a few of these things and have everyone around me screamin that I should go wash my hands or I'm going to die :wink:


--------------------
  • When we built temples to view the stars, we knew about all 2000 of them.

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