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InvisibleBridgeburner
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Proposition 5 is a looming criminal disaster
    #9162890 - 10/31/08 03:35 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

http://www.redding.com/news/2008/oct/30/opinionspeak-your-piece/

Proposition 5 is the latest attempt to decriminalize illegal drug usage. The extremely lengthy and convoluted proposition disguised as a "rehabilitation" measure, in reality, increases "chances" for drug users and decreases accountability. Everyone hopes that drug users will be rehabilitated. But this proposition ignores what has worked in Shasta County and the rest of the country - rehabilitation with accountability.

The proposition creates three tracks of treatment at the county level. The first track does not allow for any sanctions - meaning jail - and the offender can be on his second "nonviolent" felony drug-related offense and still be eligible. If the offender fails, he is referred to track two.

An offender is eligible for the second track with up to four previous nonviolent drug-related felony convictions. The second track allows for sanctions on only "non-drug related" offenses of up to 10 days. However, a "drug related" offense can include an assault or burglary of your home or other crimes if the offender claims to have been "under the influence" at the time of the offense. If the offender fails track two, he moves onto track three.

A defendant can be given track three treatment even with five felony convictions in the preceding 30 months. This is even after failing the first two tracks. And if all this does not work, the most the court can impose is one year in the county jail and no state prison.

Proposition 5 creates two new oversight committees and a new state bureaucracy that will cost an estimated hundreds of millions of taxpayer dollars at a time when the state does not have the money. Further, no money is allocated for drug testing of offenders. The proposition is opposed by countless organizations and individuals including the National Association of Drug Court Professionals, which includes judges, treatment providers, prosecutors, law enforcement and defense attorneys who have created successful programs to address addicted offenders.

Proposition 5 also helps methamphetamine dealers. Those found with up to $50,000 worth of methamphetamine would be treated like an individual drug user instead of a dealer. This means that instead of jail, these dealers get the tracks described above. In addition, dealers who possessed up to 1 kilogram of drugs and are sent to state prison will have their parole reduced from three years to six months. This reduced parole will also apply to those in state prison for felony property offenses, such as identity theft.

This proposition not only reduces accountability, but also will place the multimillion-dollar cost and burden of drug rehabilitation on our already overburdened county, the criminal justice system and taxpayers. We urge you to vote no on Proposition 5.

Jerry Benito is the Shasta County district attorney, and Tom Bosenko is the Shasta County sheriff.


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OfflineCptnGarden
fuck this site

Registered: 05/13/04
Posts: 11,945
Last seen: 14 years, 10 months
Re: Proposition 5 is a looming criminal disaster [Re: Bridgeburner]
    #9162957 - 10/31/08 04:20 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

damn he lives close
maybe ill pay him a visit
and tell him hes breaking the law by manufacturing two illegal tryptamines in his brain
i bet he'd shit his pants and blow his brains out

why wont people wisen up?
you cant control what people put in their bodies
lifes too short for all your sick games

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Offlinenomnomnom
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Registered: 09/04/08
Posts: 23
Last seen: 13 years, 4 months
Re: Proposition 5 is a looming criminal disaster [Re: CptnGarden]
    #9163003 - 10/31/08 05:16 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

CptnGarden said:
damn he lives close
maybe ill pay him a visit
and tell him hes breaking the law by manufacturing two illegal tryptamines in his brain
i bet he'd shit his pants and blow his brains out

why wont people wisen up?
you cant control what people put in their bodies
lifes too short for all your sick games




what he said  :ganja:  :cheers:

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Invisibletravelleler
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Registered: 08/30/08
Posts: 3,955
Loc: yonder mountains
Re: Proposition 5 is a looming criminal disaster [Re: CptnGarden]
    #9163205 - 10/31/08 07:33 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

I might agree BUT reducing accountability for meth dealers in California probably isn't such good idea.


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"Whales have deep thoughts"

:sun:Dreams are the fuel of the soul:sun:

:peace:

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Offlinebloodsheen
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Re: Proposition 5 is a looming criminal disaster [Re: travelleler]
    #9163336 - 10/31/08 08:36 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

well, if anyone actually reads this whole proposition i doubt it will get passed, so its probably a moot point what the specifics of law actually say. But i agree with travelleler, you need accountability for meth dealers...i wish somebody would just come out and say that weed is in a different league from other drugs, but no politician wants to make that distinction


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A cautious young fellow named Lodge / Had seat belts installed in his Dodge. / When his date was strapped in / He committed a sin / Without even leaving the garage. That's clever, isn't it?-A boy and his dog

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InvisibleGreen_T
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Registered: 10/02/08
Posts: 4,042
Loc: UK Flag
Re: Proposition 5 is a looming criminal disaster [Re: bloodsheen]
    #9163621 - 10/31/08 10:00 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

i wish somebody would just come out and say that weed is in a different league from other drugs, but no politician wants to make that distinction



QFT :thumbup:

There needs to be a new scheduling of drugs, perhaps by addictive potential and therapeutic value? Even the DEA's own doctors said that MDMA should be level III by the way, but the government bumped it up to lvl I ! Either way, meth needs to be at the top of the new list and weed at the bottom


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"I have sworn upon the altar of god eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man" - Thomas Jefferson

Legalize Meth | Drug War Victims

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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
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Re: Proposition 5 is a looming criminal disaster [Re: travelleler]
    #9164039 - 10/31/08 11:42 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

I might agree BUT reducing accountability for meth dealers in California probably isn't such good idea.





Putting meth dealers in jail is an awful waste of government resources. 

Doesn't really make sense to put meth dealers in prison while the alcohol dealers (who do much more harm) go free.

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OfflineIrieforester
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Re: Proposition 5 is a looming criminal disaster [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #9164528 - 10/31/08 01:17 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Plus this is all bullshit; I live in California, and Prop 5 has nothing to do with decriminalization, it's ALL about lighter sentencing for non-violent (not just drug-related) offences. And at the same time, it makes it harder for violent offenders to get paroled.

  People for Prop 5: Dr. Judith Martin, President of the California Society of Addiction Medicine. Daniel Macallair, Executive Director for the Center on Juvenile and Criminal Justice
  Against: Charles A. Hurley, CEO of MADD. Jerry Dyer, President of the California Police Chiefs Association.

All info taken directly from the Voter Information Guide.


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I am still and forever learning

Apollyphelion said:
You can learn A LOT from shitting in the right set and setting!:thumbup:

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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
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Re: Proposition 5 is a looming criminal disaster [Re: Irieforester]
    #9164714 - 10/31/08 02:00 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

I completely agree, Prop 5 is the best proposed law that has ever been written.

It completely changes the way the criminal justice system treats non-violent offenders and saves the prison beds for the violent people who need them.

Provisions of the initiative Proposition 5:

    * Requires California to expand and increase funding and oversight for individualized treatment and rehabilitation programs for nonviolent drug offenders and parolees.
    * Reduces criminal consequences of nonviolent drug offenses by mandating three-tiered probation with treatment and by providing for case dismissal and/or sealing of records after probation.
    * Limits court’s authority to incarcerate offenders who violate probation or parole.
    * Shortens parole for most drug offenses, including sales, and for nonviolent property crimes.
    * Creates numerous divisions, boards, commissions, and reporting requirements regarding drug treatment and rehabilitation.
    * Changes certain marijuana misdemeanors to infractions.



As of October 30, 2008, the five largest donors to the "Yes on 5" campaign are:

    * George Soros, $1,400,000
    * Jacob Goldfield, $1,400,000.
    * Bob Wilson, $2,100,000;
    * John Sperling, $1,000,000;
    * The Rockit Fund, a New York City-based organization, $500,000.
    * The Drug Policy Alliance Network, $400,000.



I have been hearing about Prop 5 for awhile because I give money to the Drug Policy Alliance, they have been working on Prop 5 for at least a year.  They are easily best drug reformers in the world, far more effective than NORML.  NORML is great of course, but their progress has been minimal compared to other groups that actually get things done.

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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: Proposition 5 is a looming criminal disaster [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #9164727 - 10/31/08 02:04 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Alan Rockefeller said:
Quote:

I might agree BUT reducing accountability for meth dealers in California probably isn't such good idea.





Putting meth dealers in jail is an awful waste of government resources. 

Doesn't really make sense to put meth dealers in prison while the alcohol dealers (who do much more harm) go free.





yep.

Plus these people that but the latest moral panick a'la meth usually don't support draconian sentences levied against pharmacists for some reason.


So the issue obviously isn't black and white it is one of moral culpability.

The pharmacist isn't culpable if he dispenses to a person with a valid need and no unconcionable activity will occur.

Shouldn't the drug dealer be afforded the same rights?  if he dispenses pursuant to prescription?  What then of someone who could get a prescription?  do morals depend on the state's beurocracy?  Of course not.

What then of the person who has a legitimate need?  Homework?  Recreation?

Hmm...

Maybe just not people who are "strung out"?

Well then, why doesn't the law require the dealing be harmful or to strung out people obviously harmed?  It doesn't.  So how could you support the law?  You can't- unless you buy a utilitarian justificaiton whre you presume, incorrectly but arguendo lets say it isn't, that the net harm justifies the infringment upon the dealer and dealees rights.


Then you must also support murder when the net benifit exceeds the harm?  So we should kill the entropeneur and take his self-made millions so that I can have a new car- as I'd surely enjoy that portion of the money more than him? 


No.  It is immoral as with the meth.  Utilitarianism is bogus when it comes to intangible personal liberties.  So too is it wrong to criminalize meth and put people in jail in a sick vindication of those irresponsible people without actualy requiring that they exist.



Don't buy the moral panick.  Meth is a drug same as any other, and drug prohibition is wrong.

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InvisibleEntheogenicPeace
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Re: Proposition 5 is a looming criminal disaster [Re: Bridgeburner]
    #9165075 - 10/31/08 03:28 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

---

Edited by EntheogenicPeace (07/10/21 10:23 AM)

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Offlinewireless
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Re: Proposition 5 is a looming criminal disaster [Re: EntheogenicPeace]
    #9166465 - 10/31/08 11:30 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:



Proposition 5 creates two new oversight committees and a new state bureaucracy that will cost an estimated hundreds of millions of taxpayer dollars at a time when the state does not have the money. Further, no money is allocated for drug testing of offenders. The proposition is opposed by countless organizations and individuals including the National Association of Drug Court Professionals, which includes judges, treatment providers, prosecutors, law enforcement and defense attorneys who have created successful programs to address addicted offenders.




Don't mind the fact that it's suppose to save us $2.5 BILLION DOLLARS and that can be used to pay our debt. I voted yes on this and I encourage anyone in California to go out and vote just because of this.

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Offlinewireless
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Re: Proposition 5 is a looming criminal disaster [Re: bloodsheen]
    #9166471 - 10/31/08 11:32 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

bloodsheen said:
well, if anyone actually reads this whole proposition i doubt it will get passed, so its probably a moot point what the specifics of law actually say. But i agree with travelleler, you need accountability for meth dealers...i wish somebody would just come out and say that weed is in a different league from other drugs, but no politician wants to make that distinction




Dude are you kidding me. Did you even read the ballot? It talks about non-violent drug offenders, and the adds on TV have been fucking excellent. This is going to get passed. Not to mention when it does marijuana is going to be lowered from a Misdemeanor to an infraction. Infraction being most moving violations.

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