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Invisibledaytripper23
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Question
    #9161199 - 10/30/08 08:50 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Why or How?  |
-------------

Why do we need two different words that seem to mean the same thing?
                          or
How is it that we need two different words that mean the same thing?


So what's the difference?

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InvisibleSleepwalker
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Re: Question [Re: daytripper23]
    #9161223 - 10/30/08 08:53 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Hmm...it seems to me that why and how are basically synonyms in a deterministic world, but not necessarily otherwise. :strokebeard:

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OfflinePhanTomCat
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Re: Question [Re: daytripper23]
    #9161412 - 10/30/08 09:27 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

What, is how and why.....


(and what is it you want to discuss...?)


>^;;^<


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."

>^;;^<

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Invisibledaytripper23
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Re: Question [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #9161469 - 10/30/08 09:42 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Hey Im asking the questions here bud.

What is typically either someone who missed the real question, or just wants his dinner. 

For now the question concerns how and why for now...
Quote:


Hmm...it seems to me that why and how are basically synonyms in a deterministic world, but not necessarily otherwise. :strokebeard:




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OfflinePhanTomCat
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Re: Question (moved) [Re: daytripper23]
    #9161475 - 10/30/08 09:43 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

This thread was moved from Philosophy & Spirituality.

Reason:
inane thread topic

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OfflinePhanTomCat
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Re: Question (moved) [Re: daytripper23]
    #9161608 - 10/30/08 10:11 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

This thread was moved from The Town Dump.

Reason:
Lets see where it goes.........

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Offlinefalcon
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Re: Question [Re: daytripper23]
    #9161627 - 10/30/08 10:14 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Why asks, what purpose, intent.
How asks, what method, means.

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InvisibleDieCommie

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Re: Question [Re: daytripper23]
    #9161635 - 10/30/08 10:15 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

What?

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OfflinePhanTomCat
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Re: Question (moved) [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #9161637 - 10/30/08 10:15 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

My bad, when I saw the "---------", I thought it was the beginning of your signature....    :tongue:
Thus thinking that the whole content of the topic was "Question; how or why"....

But, as I said in PM, it is a topic of definitions....
How - is the way
Why - is the intention or motivation behind the "how"....


>^;;^<


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."

>^;;^<

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Invisibledaytripper23
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Re: Question (moved) [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #9161666 - 10/30/08 10:21 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Thanks Phantomcat.

Quote:

Why asks, what purpose, intent.
How asks, what method, means.




But is the method really seperable from the purpose or intent?

Give an example where I could NOT reasonably interchange the two.

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InvisibleDieCommie

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Re: Question (moved) [Re: daytripper23]
    #9161692 - 10/30/08 10:26 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Its a nuance thing.  They may not always be explicitly different, but there is a nuanced difference.  Yea, theoretically we could eliminate alot of redundant words and whittle our vocabulary down.  But that would be newspeak, and would stifle free thought.  Having many different words to describe similar situations from different perspectives expands our thoughts.

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OfflinePhanTomCat
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Re: Question (moved) [Re: daytripper23]
    #9161703 - 10/30/08 10:28 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Yes, the method and intent are two different things....
How did I eat - by putting food in my mouth, chewing it and swallowing it....
Why did I eat - because I was hungry and need food to live....

Can you put the question of how or why in a context that makes them interchangeable....?


>^;;^<


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."

>^;;^<

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Offlinefalcon
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Re: Question (moved) [Re: daytripper23]
    #9161721 - 10/30/08 10:32 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

How do you go to work?
Why do you go to work?

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Invisibledaytripper23
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Re: Question (moved) [Re: daytripper23]
    #9161742 - 10/30/08 10:37 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

So to a philosopher life is a question. Heres what I was thinking:

"How" seems to imply a resolution, which like Oweyervishe said, is a determinism. Cause and effect, a scientific consideration. Significantly, here we get an answer that is secular, immanent:within...

On the other hand, what can I say that makes any sense about "why"

It is a question that is not meant to be answered? Is there any sense to that? When why is answered, it has become natural, it has become "how", right?

There must and must not be an answer. Is why transcendental? existential?

Edited by daytripper23 (10/30/08 10:44 PM)

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Invisibleblewmeanie
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Re: Question (moved) [Re: daytripper23]
    #9161833 - 10/30/08 10:55 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

huh?
:rave:


--------------------
The Prophecy!

Learn To Code

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Invisibledaytripper23
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Re: Question (moved) [Re: blewmeanie]
    #9161888 - 10/30/08 11:08 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

:levitate: ummmm Idk.

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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: Question [Re: daytripper23]
    #9162005 - 10/30/08 11:26 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

daytripper23 said:
Why or How?  |
-------------

Why do we need two different words that seem to mean the same thing?
                          or
How is it that we need two different words that mean the same thing?


So what's the difference?




Let's assume X is a statement of fact.

"Why X?" assumes in the asking that there is a reason for X's truth, and then inquires this reason.

"How X?" demands an explanation, or further in-depth description of X to elucidate that it is, in fact, true.

The former seems to imply that at some point in the past, X might not have been true, and that events since then have caused X to be true.  The latter, however, makes no such assumption--and merely clarifies the tautological essence of the statement "X is true."

The former brings in a whole slew of risky ontological ideas, such as cause and effect, God, and even the nature of linear time.  "Why is the sky blue?" implies that something purposefully made the sky blue, whereas "How is the sky blue?" will elicit a discussion into wavelengths of visible light, and other machinations of the scientific process.

"Why is 2 + 2 = 4?" has no answer, because to answer it would be to assume that something created our mathematical system to be just so.  "How is 2 + 2 = 4?", however, would require the simple explanation that two objects put together with another two will be able to be counted to get the number four.


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Question [Re: deCypher]
    #9162896 - 10/31/08 03:38 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

the typical useless & miserable question is
"Why me?"

the same question phrased slightly more usefully is
"How did I get here?"

the first assumes a lot in the way of guilt or misplaced guilt.
the second begins a search for understanding.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:

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Invisibledaytripper23
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Re: Question [Re: redgreenvines]
    #9163827 - 10/31/08 10:48 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Yea that's the typical use of why...

Its not supposed to be answered, even though its asked like it is. Essentially the person is just groaning.

I said why might be transcendent, and I wasn't exactly speaking "optimistically", but rather inevitably.  it is just a matter of time or "inevital" understanding that why in good faith becomes how. But i wonder, is this the only real path?

You might also compare why, the open existential propasition, to sartres existentialism of how. How?
that is, by existence inevitably becoming essence. Many prominent philosophers rejected this "how" as existential though. I tend to agree, even though it is useful to think in terms of the inevitable how.

Why is existential.

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Question [Re: daytripper23]
    #9163853 - 10/31/08 10:55 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

daytripper23 said:
Why or How?  |
-------------

Why do we need two different words that seem to mean the same thing?
                          or
How is it that we need two different words that mean the same thing?


So what's the difference?




How do you do?

Why do you do?

How do you eat jam?

Why do you eat jam?

I think we need em both.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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