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OfflinePookztA
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Did humans evolve from chimpanzees due to psilocybin mushroom use? *UPDATED 09/05/2009*
    #9022235 - 10/03/08 04:03 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Did humans evolve from chimpanzees due to psilocybin mushroom use?

Humans and Chimpanzees are closest relatives... sharing a genome that is 96% similar to each other.

How come we are so different? Why are so we much more self-aware, creative, and capable of understanding the Universe, if our genetic structure is nearly identical to that of chimpanzees?

Some say that psilocybin mushroon consumption 'woke' us up. Perhaps the experience of the mushroom allows one to learn things about their surroundings very rapidly in comparison to our day-to-day train of thought. I think we can all agree that there are significant lessons learned and mental benefits from consuming Psilocybin mushrooms, so who is to say that ancestral chimpanzees or neanderthals did not accidentally stumble upon the fungus, and then continue to eat the fungus to continue to receive its benefits? Perhaps early hunters ate the fungus to become more aware of their forest surroundings, to hear every foot step of deer or buffalo, to become more aware of the direction of the wind or the direction of the clouds to locate herds to hunt...

Perhaps this is why the human Pre-frontal cortex has nearly tripled in size in comparison to Chimpanzees despite the lack of a strong scientific explanation for this growth.... We can figure out how most other organisms evolved from one another.... but perhaps we cannot figure out how human's evolved from chimps because we are looking in all the wrong places...

Some say that this is the reason that the Cow is sacred in one of the largest religions in the world, Hinduism. Perhaps it is because of what grew out of the cow's dung, that has made this rather dirty animal so highly praised by such a large portion of the world's population...

Those of you who have read Terrence McKenna: Food Of The Gods, are familiar with this theory. the book changed my life, and has given me spiritual direction with my mushroom consumption. Mushrooms are consciousness-expanding, without a doubt. Whether or not their consciousness-expanding property is significant enough to cause the evolution of human beings from chimpanzees is another question though... but I am faithful we will find the answer within our lifetime.

Thoughts?

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

UPDATE 09/05/2009

I recently learned how Epigenetic influences, such as histone acetylation which makes certain genes on our DNA more accessible to transcriptional enzymes so that those genes can be upregulated / transcribed more, can get transfered to the next generation of offspring!

it is called PARAMUTATION! look it up! it involves regulatory RNA molecules, such as siRNA and miRNA. certain RNA molecules get included in the sperm and in the egg, and when they fuse, these regulatory RNA molecules then apply the epigenetic pattern of methylation and acetylation that is found in our somatic cells. This is how epigenetic changes in the frontal cortex, due to mushroom use, could be transferred into the next generation of offspring! this topic of Paramutation is currently blowing up and being researched more and more for its obvious implications involving human evolution!

this means that if mushrooms truly did upregulate genes that code for more neurons and neuronal proteins of the frontal cortex (which would correlate to increased self-awareness and logic of humans)... that certain RNAs that were included in the Sperm and Egg would then apply this same pattern of upregulation in the offspring once fertilization has occurred!

this is how the upregulation of the human frontal cortex genes could be passed onto future offspring!

so maybe we DID evolve in part due to mushroom use!? who knows though...

I looked into it some more and Paramutation is definitely the correct term. Another related term is genomic-imprinting, but only paramutation refers to the inheritence and influence of RNA molecules from the parents in order to modify (turn on/off) genes in the offspring.

To simplify: Scientists are learning that an offspring's pattern of gene expression does not only depend on which genes we inherit from our parents. Rather, what also matters significantly  is which of those genes we inherit are 'turned on' or 'turned off'. Paramutation refers to the process of inherited RNA molecules which  apply the 'on / off' patterns of parental gene regulation to the developing offspring, so that genes which were up-regulated or down-regulated in the parental generation will also be up-regulated or down-regulated in their offspring.

Here's a great BBC article giving a simplification of Epigenetic influence and paramutation:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/5011826.stm


Also, this is from Wikipedia:

Evolution

"Although epigenetics in multicellular organisms is generally thought to be a mechanism involved in differentiation, with epigenetic patterns "reset" when organisms reproduce, there have been many observations of transgenerational epigenetic inheritance (e.g., the phenomenon of paramutation observed in maize).

The possibility remains that multigenerational epigenetics could be another aspect to evolution and adaptation. These effects may require enhancements to the standard conceptual framework of the modern evolutionary synthesis.[32][33]"


Link to wikipedia article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epigenetic


the point here is: regulatory RNA molecules are inherited from your parents, just as the cytoplasm and mitochondria of the egg the mother contributes and the centrioles of the sperm your father contributes are also inherited by the offspring. These regulatory RNA molecules then modify the DNA of the offspring during development, so that genes which were more expressed or repressed in your parents are also more expressed or repressed in their offspring (DNA acetylation results in certain genes being more accessible and expressed. DNA methylation results in certain genes being less accessible and expressed.)


--------------------
Abrahm
Spreading Psytrance & Love in the Midwest USA

Expand Your Consciousness. :mushroomgrow:

:peace: 9/11 Challenge: Explain the Evidence http://pookzta.blogspot.com

Edited by PookztA (09/05/09 03:04 PM)

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Offlineapostle11
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Re: Did humans evolve from chimpanzees due to psilocybin mushroom use? [Re: PookztA]
    #9022253 - 10/03/08 04:23 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Well it wouldn't have been chimps we evolved from it would have been an earlier hominid, but as much as I love mushrooms and what they can do in terms of enlightenment I don't think they caused us to evolve from an earlier life form.

I am a big fan of Mckenna and have listened to a couple hours of lectures that he had given. Will have to pick up the book that you have referenced.

My own personal thought is that mushrooms could have been put on this Earth to help us lose our bias toward one another and to help the human race come together as one.


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OfflinePookztA
Medical Student


Registered: 09/09/05
Posts: 1,225
Loc: Illinois
Last seen: 12 years, 5 months
Re: Did humans evolve from chimpanzees due to psilocybin mushroom use? [Re: apostle11]
    #9022271 - 10/03/08 04:33 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

you don't think that the use would cause dramatic realizations within the chimpanzee, allowing for the rapid formation of language, and perhaps the understanding that by walking on two legs instead of 4, we can use our forelimbs to grab things and pick up objects?

those things dont just happen this quickly...

within the last 3-4 million years, the brain has grown more than triple its size... from 400cc's to ~1400ccs.

if we look at more recent evolution, within the last 1.7 million years, we see that the brain doubled in size, from ~800cc to ~1500cc. so it was getting faster too.

and keeping in mind that the body size did not change much at ALL during this time period, the evolution was strictly mental, and VERY accelerated... so accelerated that science has NO FUCKIN' CLUE as to what was causing it...

theres gotta be an agent... and my belief is that the agent is psilocybin mushrooms that grew all over the world, in the dungs of the bison, cattle, and other herds that we hunted prehistorically :smile:

Did you guys know that spores can survive in a vacuum, since they exist in a state of suspended-animation? spores are 'NON-LIVING', but can spring to life given the right conditions, which allows them to survive in a vacuum, aka SPACE. perhaps the spores came on a comet or a piece of space debris? perhaps the spores were dropped here by extra-terrestrials?

regardless, i firmly believe that psilocybin mushrooms played a major role in the evolution of modern human beings. just my belief though :smile:


--------------------
Abrahm
Spreading Psytrance & Love in the Midwest USA

Expand Your Consciousness. :mushroomgrow:

:peace: 9/11 Challenge: Explain the Evidence http://pookzta.blogspot.com

Edited by PookztA (10/03/08 04:34 AM)

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Offlinezouden
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Re: Did humans evolve from chimpanzees due to psilocybin mushroom use? [Re: PookztA]
    #9022358 - 10/03/08 05:56 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Is it time again for this debate? I guess it's been two weeks since the last one.

>so accelerated that science has NO FUCKIN' CLUE as to what was causing it...

Um, yeah we do. Human evolution is extremely well understood. Also, we didn't evolve from Chimps, but I won't hold that mistake against you :smile:

The main problem I have with this argument (well, apart from the fact that it's unsupported by any evidence) is that... people generally don't discover things on psilocybin. They see pretty visuals, and they can look within themselves and examine their own personality, but they don't make enormous external breakthroughs like the discovery of fire, for example.


--------------------
I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see

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InvisibleMiddlemanM

Registered: 07/11/99
Posts: 8,399
Re: Did humans evolve from chimpanzees due to psilocybin mushroom use? [Re: zouden]
    #9022370 - 10/03/08 06:06 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Human / Primate comparison:

Our bones are 50% lighter and thinner
Our muscles are 5-10 times weaker
We have 10 times the adipose tissue
Our hair pattern is reversed
Our throat is completely redesigned
We have no oestrus cycle
We have 4,000+ genetic disorders
We have LOST two chromosomes

Plant symbiosis seems as likely as genetic intervention to me.

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Offlinezouden
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Re: Did humans evolve from chimpanzees due to psilocybin mushroom use? [Re: Middleman]
    #9022406 - 10/03/08 06:29 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Why?

Edit: in case that was too obtuse... what you have listed in no way indicates plant symbiosis was involved. That is a claim with no basis in reality, and very few people would agree with it.


--------------------
I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see

Edited by zouden (10/03/08 06:35 AM)

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InvisibleMiddlemanM

Registered: 07/11/99
Posts: 8,399
Re: Did humans evolve from chimpanzees due to psilocybin mushroom use? [Re: zouden]
    #9022416 - 10/03/08 06:35 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Because of the small amount of time we had to make all of these changes.

There's this guy named Lloyd Pye who makes a very good case for genetic intervention.
I've read Food Of The Gods and think the symbiosis theory was one of McKenna's most plausable.

All I'm saying is that it's possible. :ohwell:

Edit: I didn't say that was evidence for symbiosis. It's just an interesting comparison.

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Offlinezouden
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Re: Did humans evolve from chimpanzees due to psilocybin mushroom use? [Re: Middleman]
    #9022418 - 10/03/08 06:38 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Those aren't very big changes. They can easily happen in the time since we evolved from Australopithecus. Also remember that other primates have also changed in that time, in their own way.


--------------------
I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see

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InvisibleMiddlemanM

Registered: 07/11/99
Posts: 8,399
Re: Did humans evolve from chimpanzees due to psilocybin mushroom use? [Re: zouden]
    #9022427 - 10/03/08 06:42 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

There are a few genetic scientists who have come out and said that there is evidence of intelligent manipulation in our genome.

Maybe the mushrooms did it, that's all I'm saying. :tongue:

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Offlinezouden
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Re: Did humans evolve from chimpanzees due to psilocybin mushroom use? [Re: Middleman]
    #9022433 - 10/03/08 06:47 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

>There are a few genetic scientists who have come out and said that there is evidence of intelligent manipulation in our genome.

That scientist (it was one person) is wrong. I read the article. There is no evidence.

>Maybe the mushrooms did it, that's all I'm saying.

Maybe! Anything is possible. But not everything is likely :smile:


--------------------
I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see

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InvisibleMiddlemanM

Registered: 07/11/99
Posts: 8,399
Re: Did humans evolve from chimpanzees due to psilocybin mushroom use? [Re: zouden]
    #9022436 - 10/03/08 06:48 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Right. I said 'as likely'.

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Offlinezouden
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Re: Did humans evolve from chimpanzees due to psilocybin mushroom use? [Re: Middleman]
    #9022440 - 10/03/08 06:50 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

And that's where I had to disagree with you - it's not as likely. It's far more likely that we evolved by natural selection.


--------------------
I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see

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OfflineGomp
¡(Bound to·(O))be free!
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Re: Did humans evolve from chimpanzees due to psilocybin mushroom use? [Re: zouden]
    #9022457 - 10/03/08 06:58 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

FGS? please ... ?


Feed a chimpanzee  mushroom?

Why does it not evolve?


FGS? WAKE THE FUCK UP?

Common ancestry?

Please, grab you ass and hurt yourself awake? You might need it...


--------------------


--------------------
Disclaimer!?

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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: Did humans evolve from chimpanzees due to psilocybin mushroom use? [Re: PookztA]
    #9022600 - 10/03/08 08:08 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

(copy of my reply to you in the Science & Tech forum)

No, I don't think so.

If we did...why aren't there other "humanoid" species living on the planet? Why aren't pre-human species continuing to evolve into human-like species, as they would still have access to psilocybin mushrooms?

In your other post, you point out that humans are 99.9% genetically similar to chimps (it's actually much lower). You fail to mention the fact that we are only a few more percent different than the common fruit fly. We are only about 30% different than yeast...yeast!

The fact is, we are very similar to just about every species out there, when you look at just our DNA. All the basics - cellular respiration, how cells get their food, and just about everything about cells for that matter - were worked out over literally billions of years of evolution. Once Nature finds the right way to do something, it usually sticks with it (just look at all the examples of convergent evolution). Most of the 96% of DNA we share with apes is all that - the basics.

Humans are probably only a few mutations away from chimps, and most of them probably have to do with our brain. I doubt we needed anything like mushrooms to produce a few mutations, and I'll ask again, where are any other examples?


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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: Did humans evolve from chimpanzees due to psilocybin mushroom use? [Re: PookztA]
    #9022643 - 10/03/08 08:23 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

those things dont just happen this quickly...

within the last 3-4 million years, the brain has grown more than triple its size... from 400cc's to ~1400ccs.

if we look at more recent evolution, within the last 1.7 million years, we see that the brain doubled in size, from ~800cc to ~1500cc. so it was getting faster too.


Actually they do (happen rather quickly) :wink:

If you take away just one gene, you get a human with a more chimp-sized brain (it's called microcephaly - look it up). Now certainly our brain is more than one gene away from a chimps...but do you see my point? Our brain is only a few mutations away from a chimp's!

and keeping in mind that the body size did not change much at ALL during this time period, the evolution was strictly mental, and VERY accelerated... so accelerated that science has NO FUCKIN' CLUE as to what was causing it...

As I pointed out, our brains are only a few genes off from a chimp's. A few genes are not hard to have mutate in a few million years...

Where are you getting this "NO FUCKIN' CLUE" stuff from? Science may not have all the answers...but it has learned quite a bit over the last few years!

spores are 'NON-LIVING', but can spring to life given the right conditions, which allows them to survive in a vacuum, aka SPACE. perhaps the spores came on a comet or a piece of space debris? perhaps the spores were dropped here by extra-terrestrials?

Spores are very much so "living" organisms...as much as a seed is. If a spore was "dead" (the opposite of living) it would have no way of knowing when to spring into action and begin to grow.


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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OfflinePookztA
Medical Student


Registered: 09/09/05
Posts: 1,225
Loc: Illinois
Last seen: 12 years, 5 months
Re: Did humans evolve from chimpanzees due to psilocybin mushroom use? [Re: zouden]
    #9023231 - 10/03/08 11:21 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

zouden said:
>There are a few genetic scientists who have come out and said that there is evidence of intelligent manipulation in our genome.

That scientist (it was one person) is wrong. I read the article. There is no evidence.

>Maybe the mushrooms did it, that's all I'm saying.

Maybe! Anything is possible. But not everything is likely :smile:




i study Neurobiology at the University of Iowa bro, so i'm not totally clueless here... plus i just got done taking a course called: EVOLUTION about 1 year ago. thats the entire name of the course... its all about evolution obviously, and there is a whole section devoted to human evolution, and we dont know how the brain evolved, although we do know where the most probable origin of humans is (Africa)....

if you line up our genome, and directly compare it to the genome of chimpanzees... we share 96% of their genome. literally. it was once thought to be 99% similar, but now its official at 96%... if i said 99.9% i made a mistake, ill edit the first post, but STILL... 96%!

the most recent human genome project studies have put the human genome at around 20,000 expressed genes, so to have a 4% difference with chipmanzees would mean that we have only 800 genes that are different... thats mind-boggling to me :smile:


--------------------
Abrahm
Spreading Psytrance & Love in the Midwest USA

Expand Your Consciousness. :mushroomgrow:

:peace: 9/11 Challenge: Explain the Evidence http://pookzta.blogspot.com

Edited by PookztA (10/03/08 11:45 AM)

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Offlinenonwo
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Re: Did humans evolve from chimpanzees due to psilocybin mushroom use? [Re: PookztA]
    #9023252 - 10/03/08 11:25 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

mushrooms = forbinen fruit in adam and steve story?
i think ur on to something:thumbup::thumbup:


--------------------
yellow red black and white cometogether as humans and fallow the path the creater intended

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OfflinePookztA
Medical Student


Registered: 09/09/05
Posts: 1,225
Loc: Illinois
Last seen: 12 years, 5 months
Re: Did humans evolve from chimpanzees due to psilocybin mushroom use? [Re: trendal]
    #9023253 - 10/03/08 11:25 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

trendal said:

spores are 'NON-LIVING', but can spring to life given the right conditions, which allows them to survive in a vacuum, aka SPACE. perhaps the spores came on a comet or a piece of space debris? perhaps the spores were dropped here by extra-terrestrials?

Spores are very much so "living" organisms...as much as a seed is. If a spore was "dead" (the opposite of living) it would have no way of knowing when to spring into action and begin to grow.




spores are considered to be living in the form of 'suspended-animation'. they are not actively consuming any resources such as oxygen... they are inactive, but can immediately 'spring back to life' once triggered by their environment. i said "NON-LIVING" in quotations to imply that it was metaphorical, but im glad you spoke up so we could clarify that spores truly are LIVING, but they are suspended in frozen animation until the environment triggers metabolic activity within the cell.

not once did i say spores were "dead". :wink:

it has also been shown that several species on the planet have Symbiotic relationships with species of Fungi... so closely knit, that the fungus is now ONLY FOUND within the den of the animal.

2 examples of this: Carpenter Ants, and Termites. Each insect species builds a deep underground colony, and it collects its corresponding plant life (i.e. leaves for the carpenter ants), chews it up, feeds it to the fungus, then harvests the fungus for food for the colony.

the symbiotic relationships have grown so tight, that one can not survive without the other, and one can not be found without the other.

perhaps the small population of chimpanzees that began eating these mushrooms, developed a symbiotic relationship with the fungus, and that is us now... because i promise you this, wherever i go, i will eat mushrooms, and i bet many of you can say the same.... so the Psilocybin mushroom has done an EXCELLENT job of establishing a symbiotic relationship with us, but not with any other species on the planet. hmmm.......


--------------------
Abrahm
Spreading Psytrance & Love in the Midwest USA

Expand Your Consciousness. :mushroomgrow:

:peace: 9/11 Challenge: Explain the Evidence http://pookzta.blogspot.com

Edited by PookztA (10/03/08 11:30 AM)

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OfflinePookztA
Medical Student


Registered: 09/09/05
Posts: 1,225
Loc: Illinois
Last seen: 12 years, 5 months
Re: Did humans evolve from chimpanzees due to psilocybin mushroom use? [Re: nonwo]
    #9023265 - 10/03/08 11:29 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

nonwo said:
mushrooms = forbinen fruit in adam and steve story?
i think ur on to something:thumbup::thumbup:




this guy knows! :mushroom2:


--------------------
Abrahm
Spreading Psytrance & Love in the Midwest USA

Expand Your Consciousness. :mushroomgrow:

:peace: 9/11 Challenge: Explain the Evidence http://pookzta.blogspot.com

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Offlinedoja42
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Re: Did humans evolve from chimpanzees due to psilocybin mushroom use? [Re: PookztA]
    #9023358 - 10/03/08 12:00 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

I could see mushrooms being the forbidden fruit, the thing that could expand our consciousness beyond the need for a restrictive organized religion is probably a scary thought to Christians.

Mushrooms made me more aware of the fact that there is something bigger than self, but that thing was the earth. Every time I get a chance to become one with the earth is so amazing and wonderful. People wouldn't waste their time worshiping a man if they could experience planet earth. To each his own, but thats just how I feel.

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