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BrainChemistry
Captain Obvious
Registered: 06/19/07
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From spore print to mono tub *UPDATE* *First flush pics* 2
#8952062 - 09/18/08 10:09 PM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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Just a word to all the shroom growing noobies out there. I LEARNED ALL THIS INFORMATION FROM USING THE SEARCH FEATURE ON THE SHROOMERY. IT JUST GOES TO SHOW ALL THE INFO THATS ON THIS PLACE!
Ok with that out of the way,I should be receiving some fresh, empty syringes in the mail soon, and I'm going to get my shrooming process underway. I helped a friend grow shrooms once, but this will be first time doing it on my own.
I've done a significant amount of research on these forums and I feel like I have a good handle on what to do, however there are a few holes in my understanding.
I want to lay out in a relatively brief outline my entire process, starting from creating syringes from spore prints, to setting up my mono-tub. Feel free to tell me if I there is an error in a step, if i am missing a step, or if you want clarification on a step. I've got a few questions at various points as well.
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Step 1: Making syringes.
Will be taking my prints and syringes to very well sterilized area, and working with gloves/face mask. Going to use the sterilized water/shot glass method to get my spores into the syringe. I've read using the syringe needle to scrape spores off the foil can damage some spores, so I've got some of those little fuzzy pipe cleaners I am going to strip down and bend into a loop, sterilize, and use to scrape the spores into the shot glass.
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Step 2: Inoculating Jars
I'm going with whole rye berry grain as my incubation substrate. Using full pint sized jars. For prepping the rye, I plan to let soak in water for 24 hours to germinate all the bacteria spores. Pressure cook the rye at 30 psi for 1 hour. Allow to cool for a while, then pack it into the jars 3/4th full. Pressure cook the jars at 15 psi for 1 hr.
Drill a hole in my jar lids for inoculation. I'm going to use medical alcohol gauze taped on with band-aids to cover the whole. Take my syringe, wipe the needle with alcohol and run it under a flame and inject 2-3 cc spores into my jar.
The 2-3 cc is just to be sure i'm getting enough spores in there. I'm making my own syringes and I figure extra spores couldn't really hurt anything.
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Step 3: Incubating jars
Going to use a space heater to maintain my closet at 80 degrees F. I've heard that jars take care of there own humidity, so I shouldn't have to worry about humidity levels in my closet, right? I live in a pretty dry climate, so I hope this isn't an issue.
When the jars look 1/3 colonized, I'll give them a shake. Repeating again at 2/3 colonization.
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Step 4: Setting up mono-tub (this is where I have some questions)
Currently I'm planning on using a coco coir/vermiculite substrate, at a 60/40 ratio. To sterilize the substrate, just going to use oven bags and toss them in the oven at about 180F for half an hour. Oh yeah, and before I put them in there going to add water to the substrate till its damp. I feel like I might be missing something on this step, let me know.
I'm going to use 18 gallon opaque mono-tubs. Now, this is where I have a couple of questions.
For an 18 gallon tub, I was going to use about 10 spawn jars mixed into the bulk substrate. So basically my ratios would be 3 gallons coco coir to 2 gallons vermiculite to the 10 spawn jars.
Is there any way I should layer the spawn with the bulk substrate that will optimize colonization?
As for the tubs themselves, I've read some people use bags, other people don't. I'd rather not use bags if I don't need them. When the substrate starts to pull away from the sides, I would just fill the edges with vermiculite.
During colonization of the tubs I'll try to maintain the temp at 80 F again.
I'm planning on sticking the tubs in a crawl space underneath my stairs. So...there won't be much airflow. Will this be any kind of a problem?
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Step 5: Fruiting
Right now I'm just banking on using some strands of christmas lights to inniate pinning in my tubs. I know this is kind of ghetto but if it will work and I can get away with it, I'd rather just do that to keep things simple. I'm open to other suggestions for this aspect.
When it looks like I've got big enough fruits to pick, I'm gonna pick the whole tub at once, and refill the holes from the pulled shrooms with the bulk substrate mixture.
Is there anything I should do at this stage to increase 2nd flush/3rd flush yields?
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I know I asked a lot of questions, and I'm sure I left out several details. I'm just looking for some input on this process I laid out. You can answer just one question, or all of them, or just offer up some comments, whatever.
Thanks in advance to all who reply!!!
-------------------- Word to your mom.
Edited by BrainChemistry (11/21/08 01:49 AM)
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I Like Alkaloids
Brought Back to Life
Registered: 05/14/07
Posts: 516
Loc: Rocky Mountains, U.S.
Last seen: 8 years, 2 months
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Quote:
BrainChemistry said: Right now I'm just banking on using some strands of christmas lights to inniate pinning in my tubs. I know this is kind of ghetto but if it will work and I can get away with it, I'd rather just do that to keep things simple. I'm open to other suggestions for this aspect.
You can purchase a small fluorescent light at your nearest grocery or hardware store for a reasonable price. They don't generate a lot of heat, and you can mount them to suit any need.
You can "dunk" your substrate between flushes to restore the water that is consumed for fruiting to increase yields on later flushes. There are many variations of this procedure.
-------------------- A lot of people here are assholes, but so am I...
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nykon
Mycologicaly Sufficient
Registered: 08/23/08
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Last seen: 7 years, 3 months
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I think You should probably think about getting clear tubs. And using black plastic bags in the bottom, not only to block out light, but also to keep your sub dry. Also I would fruit with "daylight" CFL lights in the 6000 - 7000k range. At a rate of 12 hours on and 12 hours off. That combined with increasing your FAE and slightly lowering the temperature (75 would be good i think)would definately innitiate pinning better than some ghetto lights.
Good Luck on your grow Hopefully I helped a little.
-------------------- Hey mister... What did you do to my Rooster?? PE swabs for trade.....
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diggs
Registered: 07/06/08
Posts: 48
Loc: US
Last seen: 1 year, 4 months
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Quote:
BrainChemistry said: Step 2: Inoculating Jars
I'm going with whole rye berry grain as my incubation substrate. Using full pint sized jars. For prepping the rye, I plan to let soak in water for 24 hours to germinate all the bacteria spores. Pressure cook the rye at 30 psi for 1 hour. Allow to cool for a while, then pack it into the jars 3/4th full. Pressure cook the jars at 15 psi for 1 hr.
I would just boil/simmer the rye for 10 minutes after soaking, then load into jars and PC. I'm pretty sure you would ruin it by PC'ing the rye for an hour (exploded kernels).
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BrainChemistry
Captain Obvious
Registered: 06/19/07
Posts: 3,657
Loc: Mountains of N. America
Last seen: 10 years, 2 months
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Quote:
I Like Alkaloids said: You can "dunk" your substrate between flushes to restore the water that is consumed for fruiting to increase yields on later flushes. There are many variations of this procedure.
Does this require that I use bags in my tub? Is there a way to re-hydrate the substrate without removing it from the tub?
-------------------- Word to your mom.
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BrainChemistry
Captain Obvious
Registered: 06/19/07
Posts: 3,657
Loc: Mountains of N. America
Last seen: 10 years, 2 months
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Re: From spore print to mono tub [Re: nykon]
#8952912 - 09/19/08 12:51 AM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
nykon said: I think You should probably think about getting clear tubs. And using black plastic bags in the bottom, not only to block out light, but also to keep your sub dry.
Just bags on the bottom? I'm not sure how that would keep my substrate any drier. If I bag the entire substrate, water should condense between the tub and the bag. But there would just be due to temperature difference, not from water leaving the substrate. Dont I want high humidity (99%) in my tub?
Maybe you can expand on this a bit.
-------------------- Word to your mom.
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BrainChemistry
Captain Obvious
Registered: 06/19/07
Posts: 3,657
Loc: Mountains of N. America
Last seen: 10 years, 2 months
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Re: From spore print to mono tub [Re: diggs]
#8952915 - 09/19/08 12:52 AM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
diggs said:
Quote:
BrainChemistry said: Step 2: Inoculating Jars
I'm going with whole rye berry grain as my incubation substrate. Using full pint sized jars. For prepping the rye, I plan to let soak in water for 24 hours to germinate all the bacteria spores. Pressure cook the rye at 30 psi for 1 hour. Allow to cool for a while, then pack it into the jars 3/4th full. Pressure cook the jars at 15 psi for 1 hr.
I would just boil/simmer the rye for 10 minutes after soaking, then load into jars and PC. I'm pretty sure you would ruin it by PC'ing the rye for an hour (exploded kernels).
Thanks for pointing this out diggs!! I'm not sure what I was thinking there.
-------------------- Word to your mom.
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ApJunkie
part-time Ninja
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I would suggest using a nutritive substrate for your substrate and saving the coir/verm for your casing layer. you'll reap benefits in both potency and yield.
that said, I'm excited to see how these go;)
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BrainChemistry
Captain Obvious
Registered: 06/19/07
Posts: 3,657
Loc: Mountains of N. America
Last seen: 10 years, 2 months
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Re: From spore print to mono tub [Re: ApJunkie]
#8952952 - 09/19/08 12:59 AM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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Hey sexy. Thanks for replying.
-------------------- Word to your mom.
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omu_negru
rookie
Registered: 02/24/08
Posts: 159
Last seen: 28 days, 17 hours
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I don't know about you guys but i found that soaking wheat grain for 24 hours then loading it in the jars while it's still slightly moist would achieve a pretty good water content. I almost always screwed up my simmers because i usually got the water content too high and got the grains clumped together after PC-ing.
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veda_sticks
Cultivator
Registered: 07/29/07
Posts: 14,191
Loc: UK
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Re: From spore print to mono tub [Re: omu_negru]
#8953508 - 09/19/08 05:34 AM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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Looks good except i would highly recomend the use of a glovebox for making your syringes and inoculations.
It may be a good idea to use tyvek filters, im not sure how well medical grade tape will perform in stoping contaminant spores from getting in your jars.
hes some usefull information on using too much spores
Quote: quote: "but I think that dark purple syringes are a waste of spores"
Words of wisdom. Too many spores translates into too many substrains germinating. It matters little if it colonizes faster if a thousand substrains are competing for your small jar of food. There is more to this hobby than simply colonization times. I challenge anybody to produce a monster flush of mushrooms from a dark purple syringe. RR
Quote: Darker syringes will result in more contamination problems. There is always going to be a certain percentage of contaminant spores on any print. Therefore, if you use more spores, you get more contaminants.
In addition, when you use a massive spore inoculation, you force the mycelium to spend a lot of time and energy combining all the genetics into a common network.
Many growers think that more spores results in faster colonization. What it results in is the substrate turning 'white' faster, but there is no evidence at all the project will actually fruit sooner. I'm a firm believer in using the minimum amount of spores necessary to achieve a crop. Clear(to the naked eye) syringes perform better than dark syringes.
Quote: Very dark syringes are counterproductive. There is always going to be a few contaminant spores on every print. There's no way to avoid them unless we grew on sterilized substrates in a hyperbaric chamber.
By using the whole syringe, you also used all the contaminants that were on the print along with the mushroom spores. Since molds germinate and grow faster than mushroom mycelium, this gives contamination the upper hand.
A print should make up to ten or even more syringes, depending on size and darkness of the print.
In addition, too many mushroom spores is also counterproductive. Eventually, all those strains that are created need to merge by anastomosis into a common whole for fruiting. Since some strains are not compatible with each other, by using an excess of spores, your substrate will have several small zones of different strains, thus none of them will have the benefit of the entire cake. This results in smaller fruits, or sometimes no fruits at all.
I'd suggest diluting that with sterile, distilled water into at least five more syringes before use. The alternative is to use far less per jar, but it's hard to squeeze out less than .5 ml. RR
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-------------------- PF TEK - writeup by EvilMushroom666 Lets Grow Mushrooms - RogerRabbit & RoadKills website with sample videos plus the full PF TEK video series. Alot of great information - BUY THE DVD Cakes can and will pin! - So you think cakes suck for pins. Your wrong Franks Simple Coir/Verm Tek Franks Proper Pasturisation Tek Franks Spawning To Bulk - Monotub Professor Pinheads RTV Injection Port Tek Foo Mans No Soak WBS Prep Tek
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I Like Alkaloids
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Quote:
BrainChemistry said:
Quote:
I Like Alkaloids said: You can "dunk" your substrate between flushes to restore the water that is consumed for fruiting to increase yields on later flushes. There are many variations of this procedure.
Does this require that I use bags in my tub? Is there a way to re-hydrate the substrate without removing it from the tub?
The easiest way to do this is to remove the polyfil from the bottom holes of the monotub, and place it in the bath tub. Turn the water on so there is a small stream running into the tub. When there is enough water, the substrate will float a bit, and the water will start to drain out the holes. I like to keep the water moving around in the tub so it isn't stagnant, so I leave the water running for at least 1 hour. Longer is better, but I've had great success with just 1 hour. It really doesn't use any more water than taking a shower. You can also take the tub outside and put a garden hose in one of the bottom holes and leave it on for a while.
When you're done, just turn the tub on its side to drain the water out of the holes. It's ok if there is a little water left over, but you don't want too much...
-------------------- A lot of people here are assholes, but so am I...
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BrainChemistry
Captain Obvious
Registered: 06/19/07
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Sorry, this may sound like a dumb question, but what are these holes you are referring to?
I guess I missed this part in my research, but it makes sense. I assume they are for air flow. Where exactly should the holes be placed? And how many, what size, etc?
Or can you actually buy tubs with these holes already built in?
-------------------- Word to your mom.
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I Like Alkaloids
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This tek is for a double tub, but the principles can be applied to a monotub...
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/4323984#4323984
You want 2 holes on the bottom of each side (above the substrate and casing layer), and two holes on the top of each side. If you don't have a drill, you can cut the holes out with a hot knife, etc.
I would shoot for 1.5" diameter for the holes.
-------------------- A lot of people here are assholes, but so am I...
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BrainChemistry
Captain Obvious
Registered: 06/19/07
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Wow, cool thanks for the link Alkaloids, mucho informativo!
Whats the difference really between the double tub method and mono tub? Just better FAE and circulation?
-------------------- Word to your mom.
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nykon
Mycologicaly Sufficient
Registered: 08/23/08
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Well I didn't quite word that right.. But what I meant about the trash bag in the bottom was that when condensation ran down the side it would be in between the plastic and the trash bag, not in your substrate.
-------------------- Hey mister... What did you do to my Rooster?? PE swabs for trade.....
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nykon
Mycologicaly Sufficient
Registered: 08/23/08
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Last seen: 7 years, 3 months
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From what I gather the difference between a mono tub and a double tub is that the mono tub only uses one tub, and the double tub uses two...
-------------------- Hey mister... What did you do to my Rooster?? PE swabs for trade.....
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BrainChemistry
Captain Obvious
Registered: 06/19/07
Posts: 3,657
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Last seen: 10 years, 2 months
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Re: From spore print to mono tub [Re: nykon]
#8955464 - 09/19/08 04:01 PM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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Yeah I think thats a given.
But there has to be a reason for stacking the tubs, otherwise it just takes up useless space.
-------------------- Word to your mom.
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BrainChemistry
Captain Obvious
Registered: 06/19/07
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Re: From spore print to mono tub [Re: ApJunkie]
#8955485 - 09/19/08 04:06 PM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
ApJunkie said: I would suggest using a nutritive substrate for your substrate and saving the coir/verm for your casing layer. you'll reap benefits in both potency and yield.
that said, I'm excited to see how these go;)
So think a bag of compost from Home Depot will do the job, or should I roll with some actual manure?
Edit: Nvm. I are tarded. I'll just be legit and get some poo poo.
-------------------- Word to your mom.
Edited by BrainChemistry (09/19/08 04:53 PM)
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ApJunkie
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well I'm actually not sure. I've heard of people getting good results using bagged compost and whatnot from stores, but I hear certain varieties have fungicides added in, so obviously that would be a gamble..... I just checked craigslist though, bunches of poo nearby for very very cheap...
Oh, and instead of cutting holes in the monotubs you could always just remove a 2 foot by 2 foot section from the lid and replace it with one of those hepa air filters (the sheet-shaped kind), then your entire lid is basically filtered air exchange, problem free.
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