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InvisibleStonehenge
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E Novogranatense - an interesting plant
    #8934071 - 09/15/08 03:38 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

This is a plant originally found in S America and grown also in parts of Africa and the middle east. It has a similar make up and chemical profile to e coca. The main difference, for those in the states, is that e coca is scheduled by the DEA and therefore illegal while e novo is not. Extracting even from e novo can get you into trouble, much the same as extracting from san pedro or a number of other legal plants. Even making a tea could do it. I'm not sure of the legality of eating the leaves or chewing them so I don't do any of that stuff. Please don't ask me about illegal things. All I do is enjoy looking at them and try to preserve the species.

E novo is relatively easy to grow. It being a tropical, can't take any cold so they have to be taken in during cold months. They do fine by a window and make a good houseplant year around.

Here is a photo of one of my plants. This one is about a year old and you can see flowers on it.



Here are some of my seedlings



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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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InvisibleAgingHippy
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Re: E Novogranatense - an interesting plant [Re: Stonehenge]
    #8934089 - 09/15/08 03:41 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

seeing that your plant is flowering, MOD EDIT: Hookups are NOT allowed in the garden!

Edited by felixhigh (09/15/08 07:56 PM)

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OfflineProf. Astro
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Re: E Novogranatense - an interesting plant [Re: Stonehenge]
    #8934099 - 09/15/08 03:42 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Nice plants. :omgawesome:


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:hanky:

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OfflineChemy
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Re: E Novogranatense - an interesting plant *DELETED* [Re: Stonehenge]
    #8934438 - 09/15/08 04:36 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Post deleted by Chemy

Reason for deletion: Reason for deleting?


Edited by Chemy (10/06/08 06:20 AM)

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InvisibleAgingHippy
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Re: E Novogranatense - an interesting plant [Re: Chemy]
    #8934452 - 09/15/08 04:38 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

what other 12 cocaine and ecgonine containing species? :smile:

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OfflineChemy
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Re: E Novogranatense - an interesting plant *DELETED* *DELETED* [Re: AgingHippy]
    #8934587 - 09/15/08 05:05 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Post deleted by Chemy

Reason for deletion: Reason for deleting?


Edited by Chemy (09/15/08 05:17 PM)

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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: E Novogranatense - an interesting plant [Re: Chemy] * 1
    #8934816 - 09/15/08 05:46 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Unless the scheduling has changed recently, only e coca is listed. Here is what I found using google

(4) coca (FOOTNOTE 3) leaves, except coca leaves and extracts of coca leaves from which cocaine, ecgonine, and derivatives of ecgonine or their salts have been removed; cocaine, its salts, optical and geometric isomers, and salts of isomers; ecgonine, its derivatives, their salts, isomers, and salts of isomers; or any compound, mixture, or preparation which contains any quantity of any of the substances referred to in this paragraph.

Coca means e coca, not any member of the Erythroxylaceae family nor does it mean any member of the erythroxylum genus. There are some 200 plus members of the Erythroxylaceae family and most contain no cocaine at all.

I agree that an argument could be made that the leaves which contain cocaine could be a "preparation" containing cocaine but I have never heard of anyone being prosecuted under that theory. San pedro for example contains mescaline which is a sceduled drug. Have you heard of anyone being busted just for possessing s pedro? I never have. But, if you extract from it, you could get into trouble.

A parallel argument could be made against poppies which grow everywhere. The law states "mown poppy straw" is illegal which would not include the poppies themselves unless lanced or otherwise processed for drugs.

teefizzle, the berries contain one seed each and I know they are fertile because I have sprouted some. I could be persuaded to part with berries or even seedlings. Send a PM for details.


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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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OfflineChemy
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Re: E Novogranatense - an interesting plant *DELETED* [Re: Stonehenge]
    #8934858 - 09/15/08 05:53 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Post deleted by Chemy

Reason for deletion: Reason for deleting?


Edited by Chemy (10/06/08 06:20 AM)

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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: E Novogranatense - an interesting plant [Re: Chemy]
    #8935125 - 09/15/08 06:42 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Chemy, you are a smart guy who knows a lot about law. Therefore, you must realize that what the DEA says or implies in it's writings do not have the force of law. Only what the statute says is law. Likewise, what people call something on the street is not the legal definition. Here is what I found on a dictionary search:

Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source - Share This
co·ca      /ˈkoʊkə/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[koh-kuh] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun
1. a shrub, Erythroxylon coca, native to the Andes, having simple, alternate leaves and small yellowish flowers.
2. the dried leaves of this shrub, which are chewed for their stimulant properties and which yield cocaine and other alkaloids.

I'm not saying an overzealous prosecutor could not make up a case against someone who they believed was selling leaves or extracts. But I think they would have to prove they were selling or using these as a drug before they would have anything solid. Even besides that, we have coca leaf tea being sold from overseas and often it gets through customs even though it's clearly illegal. I don't recall anyone being busted for ordering it, do you?

What we have here is a small loophole in the law. It may be plugged some day but for now there it is.


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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Offlinedanzick
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Re: E Novogranatense - an interesting plant [Re: Stonehenge]
    #8936509 - 09/15/08 10:28 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
Chemy, you are a smart guy who knows a lot about law. Therefore, you must realize that what the DEA says or implies in it's writings do not have the force of law. Only what the statute says is law. Likewise, what people call something on the street is not the legal definition. Here is what I found on a dictionary search:

Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source - Share This
co·ca      /ˈkoʊkə/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[koh-kuh] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun
1. a shrub, Erythroxylon coca, native to the Andes, having simple, alternate leaves and small yellowish flowers.
2. the dried leaves of this shrub, which are chewed for their stimulant properties and which yield cocaine and other alkaloids.

I'm not saying an overzealous prosecutor could not make up a case against someone who they believed was selling leaves or extracts. But I think they would have to prove they were selling or using these as a drug before they would have anything solid. Even besides that, we have coca leaf tea being sold from overseas and often it gets through customs even though it's clearly illegal. I don't recall anyone being busted for ordering it, do you?

What we have here is a small loophole in the law. It may be plugged some day but for now there it is.




I think the most important lesson here is discretion.  If you choose to cultivate this species, be discrete and maintain a low profile.  Thumbing your nose at the authorities, on the premise that the plant is 100% legal, may just get you more attention than you bargained for, and result in a test case that might not go in your favor.  Not to mention, drawing attention to other hobby growers.  They do after all make beautiful bushes that 99.999% of people would never recognize for what they are unless told. Hell, don't even tell your cat. I read in a thread somewhere, that cats are gossiping SOBs.

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Invisiblescruffymafia
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Re: E Novogranatense - an interesting plant [Re: danzick]
    #8936862 - 09/15/08 11:28 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Awesome man! They plant is looking healthy, i reckon E. novo's are the best entheo you can grow. :awesome::awesome:

I plan on starting some soon, any tips?


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OfflineDr. uarewotueat
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Re: E Novogranatense - an interesting plant [Re: Stonehenge]
    #8937535 - 09/16/08 03:16 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

sweet plants, quite a speedy grower then? :awesome:


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Invisiblewisp

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Re: E Novogranatense - an interesting plant [Re: Stonehenge]
    #8937853 - 09/16/08 06:44 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

They are beautiful plants. Really healthy specimens too, good job!:thumbup:

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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: E Novogranatense - an interesting plant [Re: wisp]
    #8938851 - 09/16/08 12:28 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Thanks everyone. Yes, it is good to be discrete, which I tried to bring out in my first post. Chemy, there is a thread in the security forum, I think it is, on the subject. That might be a good place for your legal theories.

They do not like cold because they are tropical so bring them in when it gets into the lower 50's. They do fine by a window. They don't like much direct sun but sun from a window (with glass) is OK. They like being adapted gradually to changes in their environment. They prefer slightly acidic water, they do not like a lot of calcium so they prefer rain water or RO filtered water but I've grown them on city water without issues.

They are not as delicate or sensitive as many other tropical plants. I gave up on salvia a few years ago but I do fine with these. But a beginner may kill his or hers if they don't know the basics of gardening or leave them out in the cold. E novos are hardier than their cousins the e coca and less difficult to raise. E novo are self fertile unlike e coca which needs another plant to make berries. If you give them the proper care they grow fairly fast. You could put them under flouros in the winter or by a window as I said. I hope that more people will raise them so that if the govt (perhaps under Obama) decides to ban them and plug the loophole, they will be widely distributed and be impossible to stamp out. They could grow wild in zone 10 or higher.


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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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Invisiblescruffymafia
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Re: E Novogranatense - an interesting plant [Re: Stonehenge]
    #8941776 - 09/16/08 11:07 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Sweet! Haha i think whoever will be running america next will have some bigger issues to look after im sure. Try a depression worse than The Great 1929.

The vultures are swarming already...




They seem like such a great entheogen to grow, im sure you could grow as much as you could fit in your property and noone would ever suspect a thing - as long as you dont let anyone know what it is of-course.

Its such an innocent looking plant :awesome:


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Offlineidiocraticfool
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Re: E Novogranatense - an interesting plant [Re: Chemy]
    #8979923 - 09/24/08 05:49 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

chemy coca is a species cocas would refer to subspecies of the plant ie E. coca var. ipadu. it does not refer to other members within the same family or genus, ("coca leaves, except coca leaves and extracts of coca leaves from which cocaine. . ." only refers to coca leaves and anything "prepared" that contains cocaine/alkaloids this includes ground leaves tea and possibly even picked, chewed, digested or bagged [which would include seeds assuming they contain any alkaloid]).  otherwise it is my understanding that you cannot get "busted" unless u sell them for human consumption or obviously if u are arrested and tested for drugs u will test positive for cocaine. so yeah it basically falls into a "grey area"

stonehenge the e. navo plant like san pedro is not yet considered by the gov' to be a threat that is why it is not yet classified (assuming my interpretation is correct). therefore if you want to ensure the survival of the plant than i'd highly disrecommend publicizing it or suggesting that anyone grow it unless your intention is for it survive like hemp survives wich i suppose could/would be a good thing if your intention for the plant was anything other than growing it (depending on ur perspective [survival of the species/ renewal as recreational drug as unprocessed leaves/ on the flip side own personal use]) but we know that isn't the case for you, as you previously stated.

i am no lawyer so i may be incorrect.  e. nova is not technically a coca but "coca" may possibly refer to the entire genus noting that they are known aside from their scientific identification as coca plants and are used to produce cocaine (grow at your own risk if tried at least you may get a lower penalty for being unaware that you are possessing a coca plant- assume that any one calling the plant coca is misguided if you ever need to go on trial)


also both Obama and McCain have few redeeming qualities especially within their drug policies- Obama chose joe biden and mccain wants to raise penalties.
and sorry for all the wordyness
ps to chemy and stonehendge i made this account because i was rearching the legal status of this plant and your posts helped allot thank you.

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Offlineidiocraticfool
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Re: E Novogranatense - an interesting plant [Re: Stonehenge]
    #8986786 - 09/25/08 09:11 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

my gardening experiance is pretty much tomatoes and hemp- would you say that is enough background to easily propagate from seed?
how do you germinate/plant the the seeds?

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Offlineblazed123
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Re: E Novogranatense - an interesting plant [Re: idiocraticfool]
    #8986926 - 09/25/08 09:42 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

The seeds are easy to germinate.  You germinate them in moist peat.  I had ten seeds given to me and got them all to sprout that way.  Unfortunately, I ended up killing all the plants.  It's not because it's a difficult plant to grow.  I just didn;t have good conditions to give them.  Window light might be enough down south, but it seem to be very borderline during the heart of the winter up north.

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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: E Novogranatense - an interesting plant [Re: blazed123]
    #8989320 - 09/26/08 12:13 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

I get about 80 to 90% sprout rate. They are easy to take care of but are sensitive to cold. Temps in the low 50's will make them drop leaves. Below that and they could die. Often right by a window is the coldest part of the room because heat radiates out the window at night. Other things to watch for are drying out and over ferting. They are normally lime green which is kind of pale compared to leaf color on most other plants. Sometimes gardeners try to green them up with too much ferts. Once you get the hang of it it's easy. I killed my first batch too. That's why I try to give tips to new gardeners.

It's in a gray area so do not try to extract from them. I won't help anyone get them if they talk about extracting or making tea, etc.


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: E Novogranatense - an interesting plant [Re: Stonehenge]
    #9023476 - 10/03/08 12:38 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

The e novos var novogranatense is said to have lines parallel to the leaf direction. That's why I think these are that type  because they have the lines. Be sure to adapt yours gradually to changes in the environment.


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755

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