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InvisibleveggieM

Registered: 07/25/04
Posts: 17,504
Would the Beatles have sounded the same if they'd never taken drugs?
    #8925897 - 09/13/08 09:48 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Would the Beatles have sounded the same if they'd never taken drugs?
September 13, 2008 - sundayherald.com

COULD A drug-free mind ever imagine sailing the oceans in a yellow submarine, or talking to a girl with kaleidoscope eyes? That was the question asked by a Scottish scientist who spoke at Liverpool's famous Cavern Club last week in an attempt to divine whether The Beatles would have been as good if they had not indulged in illegal substances.

Professor Judith Pratt, of the Strathclyde Institute of Pharmacy and Biomedical Sciences, examined the effects drugs have on the way individuals perceive the world before relating it back to The Beatles's evolution from innocent boy band to spaced-out hippies, a trip that saw their music evolve from pop to Technicolor psychedelia and eventually into heroin-influenced blues.

The event was not a normal scientific symposium: after her talk, the audience stood up and sang along to Hey Jude.

Pratt said: "What would their songs be like if they hadn't been exposed to drugs? Taking drugs certainly had a positive influence on The Beatles's songwriting, although that's not to say you should encourage people to take them. The boost in creativity comes from the way drugs changed their perception. But it's a moot point whether they would have made the same music if it weren't for what they were taking."

She focused on two drugs: LSD and cannabis. Smoking marijuana, Pratt claimed, gave them their first boost in creativity. The possible reasons why cannabis didn't cause psychosis in the Fab Four include the relative weakness of the drug, compared to the hyper-strength "skunk" smoked nowadays, but also because the herbal variety contains a substance called cannabidiol, which some scientists think could work to prevent psychosis.

But it was LSD that really sent The Beatles rocketing off the planet. Pratt said that under its influence they recorded Tomorrow Never Knows, inspired by the Tibetan Book Of The Dead, and much of the music of their psychedelic phase, including I Am The Walrus, the Magical Mystery Tour EP and the Sergeant Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band album, which notoriously includes Lucy In The Sky With Diamonds, widely interpreted, though never confirmed by its composer John Lennon, as a reference to LSD.

Pratt said: "They might not have gone into that more spiritual spiral if they hadn't taken LSD."

She was unable to conclude whether The Beatles would have been as good, or at least as adventurous, had they never been introduced to marijuana by Bob Dylan in 1964, and insisted there was "not an absolute, direct link" between the drugs and their greatest work.

One pop star cast aspersions on the idea that The Beatles's success was down to their choice of substances. Jackie McKeown, lead singer of the indie band 1990s and former bandmate of Franz Ferdinand stars Alex Kapranos and Paul Thomson in Yummy Fur, told the Sunday Herald he believed The Beatles's music was down to the company they kept and the musical climate of the time.

He said: "The Dylan effect is more pronounced than the weed. You've got these songs like Hide Your Love Away, which sounds really stoned, but also sounds like Dylan.

"A few years later, it's Sergeant Pepper. But are they really being influenced by LSD, or is it Jefferson Airplane, The Byrds and The Grateful Dead? There's nothing on Sergeant Pepper you wouldn't have heard in San Francisco six months earlier. All the lyrics are like plastic, mind-expanding dogs in the sky' kind of stuff, which is basically Beat poetry set to music."

He did concede that one drug, heroin, had had the positive effect of wiping away the "excess" of their psychedelic period and led to the pared-down, bluesy rock of the "White Album".

Jim Gellatly, a former DJ on Xfm Scotland, said it didn't matter whether The Beatles were influenced by drugs, because the music was always good, unlike some of the more overblown music that followed them.

He said: "Look at Pink Floyd's music. You need to take drugs to listen to it and they needed to take drugs to make it."

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Offlinelearningtofly
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Re: Would the Beatles have sounded the same if they'd never taken drugs? [Re: veggie]
    #8926054 - 09/13/08 10:29 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Fuck that lady.

Quote:

relative weakness of the drug, compared to the hyper-strength "skunk" smoked nowadays, but also because the herbal variety contains a substance called cannabidiol, which some scientists think could work to prevent psychosis.


I don't get it, do they think that "Skunk" isn't marijuana or what?

Also, what is with the guy who said that you NEED drugs to listen to Pink Floyd?

Edited by learningtofly (09/13/08 10:32 PM)

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Offlinehighdroponics
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Re: Would the Beatles have sounded the same if they'd never taken drugs? [Re: veggie]
    #8926055 - 09/13/08 10:29 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

oh there is definitely a link between drug use and their work. it should be a well known fact by now that psychedelics boost creativity.

"They might not have gone into that more spiritual spiral if they hadn't taken LSD."

spirituality requires taking a very passionate interest. had they not been so passionate about their work it wouldn't have been as good.


--------------------
Dr :ronpaul: says to stop trying to treat the side-effects of big government and focus on the core issues. End the Federal Reserve/audit the gold reserves at Fort Knox, abolish the IRS, end all wars and occupancies, stop the building of an empire that will inevitably fail, and cut all unconstitutional federal programs. Put the power back in the peoples' hands by ending this nanny-state.

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OfflineAltecLansing
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Re: Would the Beatles have sounded the same if they'd never taken drugs? [Re: highdroponics]
    #8926132 - 09/13/08 10:46 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

"She focused on two drugs: LSD and cannabis. Smoking marijuana, Pratt claimed, gave them their first boost in creativity. The possible reasons why cannabis didn't cause psychosis in the Fab Four include the relative weakness of the drug, compared to the hyper-strength "skunk" smoked nowadays, but also because the herbal variety contains a substance called cannabidiol, which some scientists think could work to prevent psychosis."

Oooh wow. That paragraph made my head swell. To the point though, no, their music wouldn't have been the same. The first time I listened to Sgt. Peppers on acid I had about 40 moments where I was like; "Oh, I get it now!!!"


--------------------
I don't use jelly.

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OfflineAsAboveSoBelow
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Registered: 02/06/08
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Re: Would the Beatles have sounded the same if they'd never taken drugs? [Re: AltecLansing]
    #8926171 - 09/13/08 10:56 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

I take it professor Bumquist took the stage next and proclaimed that the roaches got their name because they resemble cockroaches


--------------------


You're gonna get hurt real bad :smile:

They that sow the wind, shall reap the whirlwind

Edited by AsAboveSoBelow (09/13/08 11:03 PM)

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OfflineZoSo0987
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Re: Would the Beatles have sounded the same if they'd never taken drugs? [Re: veggie]
    #8926507 - 09/14/08 12:05 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:


He said: "Look at Pink Floyd's music. You need to take drugs to listen to it and they needed to take drugs to make it."




I resent that. I have been relativly sober for about 8 months, and I LITERALLY just put down the guitar after playing along to dark side of the moon before I read this.

well... stone sober outside of alcohol adderall and occasionally weed. And shrooms back in june. :grin:

Edited by ZoSo0987 (09/14/08 12:09 AM)

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Invisibletakk
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Re: Would the Beatles have sounded the same if they'd never taken drugs? *DELETED* [Re: veggie]
    #8927203 - 09/14/08 04:03 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Post deleted by Anarchyz0r

Reason for deletion: privacy


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Offlinesinenomine
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Re: Would the Beatles have sounded the same if they'd never taken drugs? [Re: takk]
    #8928092 - 09/14/08 11:05 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

What's especially amusing about the skunk bullshit is that the Beatles were probably getting some of the best shit around at the time...this article is saying they were all smoking schwag.

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OfflineKonyap


Registered: 06/30/07
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Re: Would the Beatles have sounded the same if they'd never taken drugs? [Re: sinenomine]
    #8929243 - 09/14/08 04:07 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

would chech and chong have made movies if they'd never smoked weed?

i think not

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Offlinemagicgreenbeans
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Re: Would the Beatles have sounded the same if they'd never taken drugs? [Re: sinenomine]
    #8929406 - 09/14/08 04:42 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

no matter what the beatles were influenced by drugs.  Even if the beatles had created been able to create their music based off the other bands of the times, like jefferson airplane, and not drugs, they based their sound off a band that was known for its heavy LSD usage, which they could have just copied and been one step behind the game and never really made it to their superstardom they achieved.  But the drugs are what allowed them to be on par with jefferson airplane and actually create the music, its one thing to think that it creates a crazy beat, or rhythm, or lyric, but its another to know that what you made was truely something that could be felt.  You can still create psychedelic music without the drugs, but the reason why it was psychedelic was because of the psychedelic drugs used to create it.  You dont have to be on drugs to enjoy music ever, nor to even create it, but they do enhance the experience of both, in the creative channels of creating the work, and in the creative channels in interpreting the music.

and does everyone really believe the beatles never used cannabis before dylan?  they used it, they just didnt apply themselves in the same direction as they did after meeting him.  He was a large influence on their work, as well as jefferson airplane and the grateful dead, as for their albums being 6 months after that happened, it takes time to record and release an album, so they were influenced by the then current atmosphere, let it marinate a little, create their whole album, then release it, and they did that within months of being around it, id like to see many modern day bands that can release albums at the speed as previous ones have, it seems anymore that they just release one ever few years when their accounts start to run dry and need a little funds.  and even if they did use the same approach, that would just mean that the beatles were sitting on stuff that jefferson airplane and the grateful dead were playing after the beatles had already created it.  This quantitatively proves that it was neither the drugs or the music that led the beatles to their fame, it was the right people, at the right time, doing the right drugs, in the right atmosphere to create what we all have come to know as the beatles.  And many bands have a shift at some point in their careers where their music changes.  The beatles still made pop songs after they made psychedelia.  But the drugs did do what they were supposed to do, which was expand their minds, and it did expand their minds to new types of music, and new concepts as too how to create the sounds they desired, and what their music should be about.  but it did not have made a difference, they could have copied everyone, became famous, maybe not in the same way, but they could have done it without the drugs, and they would not have created the type of music they did if they hadnt had the influences of dylan, jefferson airplane, and the grateful dead.

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Offlineclover606
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Re: Would the Beatles have sounded the same if they'd never taken drugs? [Re: magicgreenbeans]
    #8930392 - 09/14/08 08:11 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

The possible reasons why cannabis didn't cause psychosis in the Fab Four include the relative weakness of the drug, compared to the hyper-strength "skunk" smoked nowadays, but also because the herbal variety contains a substance called cannabidiol, which some scientists think could work to prevent psychosis.




wow.


--------------------
grassman said:

I remember being in DARE when i was much younger and some of the stories they would tell you are not only ridiculous, but completely untrue. One story was that a woman was on LSD and thought her infant was a turkey so she baked it in the oven. Now I look back and think thats hilarious, but at the time I guess it scared me.

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OfflineAnotherDimension
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Re: Would the Beatles have sounded the same if they'd never taken drugs? [Re: AsAboveSoBelow]
    #8930892 - 09/14/08 09:57 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

AsAboveSoBelow said:
I take it professor Bumquist took the stage next and proclaimed that the roaches got their name because they resemble cockroaches 




Exactly.  The writer of this article sounds as out of their element as ol' Prof. Bumquist.  I'm surprised they didn't say at what year the Beatles graduated from 'cool' to 'groovy'.

From the mouth of someone with a personal connection:
Quote:


In 1972, Lennon offered some context for the influence of drugs on the Beatles' creativity (quoted in The Beatles Anthology):
"It's like saying, 'Did Dylan Thomas write Under Milk Wood on beer?' What does that have to do with it? The beer is to prevent the rest of the world from crowding in on you. The drugs are to prevent the rest of the world from crowding in on you. They don't make you write any better. I never wrote any better stuff because I was on acid or not on acid."





Also, going in to this phase, the Beatles claimed a greater influence from the Beach Boys than the San Fran bands the article claims.  Basically, Brian Wilson said how Rubber Soul had been a giant inspiration on the making of Pet Sounds, and the Beatles replied that inversely Pet Sounds went on to greatly influence the making of Revolver.

And according to the article the white album isn't psychedelic?  What, not enough tie-die on the cover?


--------------------
Another Dimension
---------------------------
"Come, and trip it as ye go,
On the light fantastick toe."

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OfflineNasrudin
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Re: Would the Beatles have sounded the same if they'd never taken drugs? [Re: AnotherDimension]
    #8931316 - 09/15/08 12:00 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Haha, they gotta work the "skunk" thing into everything these days.

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Offlineturn_on_tune_in
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Re: Would the Beatles have sounded the same if they'd never taken drugs? [Re: Nasrudin]
    #8932240 - 09/15/08 08:34 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

i personally find that drugs (marijuana/shrooms) have more expanded my taste in music like, before i became a "avid pot smoker" i was pretty much in to metal and punk but since the wonderful days of low tollerance Ive just began listining to whatever feels good mainly the beatles bob dylan, jefferson airplane, the small faces jack johnson like anythying with some realy meaning or beauty to it kind of things.
i also find that there are times that i smoke a giant spliff and just want to listin to an album or play some guitar in hopes to write a song.

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Offlinebud_dude35
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Re: Would the Beatles have sounded the same if they'd never taken drugs? [Re: turn_on_tune_in]
    #8933838 - 09/15/08 02:54 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

The Answer is... Hell no!!!

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Offlinenumonkei
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Re: Would the Beatles have sounded the same if they'd never taken drugs? [Re: bud_dude35]
    #8933987 - 09/15/08 03:23 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:


Jackie McKeown





Awful, awful musician, and terrible bands related.

Quote:


Jim Gellatly, a former DJ on Xfm Scotland
[/quote

...eh...


{quote}
said it didn't matter whether The Beatles were influenced by drugs, because the music was always good, unlike some of the more overblown music that followed them.

He said: "Look at Pink Floyd's music. You need to take drugs to listen to it and they needed to take drugs to make it."





...What the fuck?!?!? It's MUSIC, hence art form, hence subjective to space and time.

Would the Beatles' music been as good, or worse/better, if they had not taken drugs? Depends on what you like, and how that would relate, change to relate to, or relate to later change of, the music that would have been made.

Any Seers out there? What WOULD the other music have been? Subjectivity changes, as does cultural impact and etc. These comments seem a little too close to bias.

What's the fun or art if it has standards? Then it's not art, it's marketing and packaging. Like Franz Ferdinand.




~Monk

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Offlinehockeyplyr1057
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Re: Would the Beatles have sounded the same if they'd never taken drugs? [Re: veggie]
    #8935166 - 09/15/08 06:49 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

He said: "Look at Pink Floyd's music. You need to take drugs to listen to it and they needed to take drugs to make it."




man this person obviously has no sense of musical taste. i loved pink floyd years before i even knew what weed was, or any other drug for that matter.


--------------------
All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us. -Gandalf

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Invisiblekake
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Re: Would the Beatles have sounded the same if they'd never taken drugs? [Re: hockeyplyr1057]
    #8953118 - 09/19/08 01:41 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Would the Beatles have sounded the same if they'd never taken drugs?




Of course not.  This is a stupid question IMO.


--------------------
The answer to 1984 is 1776.

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