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Offlinezappaisgod
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Registered: 02/11/04
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Social con or Libertarian? The argument for Sarah's Libertarian cred.
    #8890178 - 09/07/08 09:23 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Here's a link to a specific article about some of Sarah Palin's performance regarding social issues.  The gist is that she doesn't want government to tell you how to act.
http://libertarianrepublican.blogspot.com/2008/09/confirmed-palins-libertarian-on-social.html

Quote:

Neither have Palin's socially conservative personal views on issues like abortion and gay marriage been translated into policies during her 20 months as Alaska's chief executive. It reflects a hands-off attitude toward mixing government and religion by most Alaskans.

"She has basically ignored social issues, period," said Gregg Erickson, an economist and columnist for the Alaska Budget Report.





I think what we might have here is the closest thing to a bona fide Libertarian to ever appear on a major national ticket.  My eternal gratitude to the great state of Alaska.

This is just a link to one article.  Libertarian minded Shroomerites might be interested in bookmarking the site
http://libertarianrepublican.blogspot.com/


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OfflineIrieforester
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Re: Social con or Libertarian? The argument for Sarah's Libertarian cred. [Re: zappaisgod]
    #8890273 - 09/07/08 10:09 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

The gist is that she doesn't want government to tell you how to act./quote]

No, just how you think.
She tried to get certain books banned from her town's library and threatened to fire the librarian who fought her on it.

She wants to teach Creationism in public schools.

Opposes sex-ed in public schools, instead opting for horribly outdated abstinence-only programs.


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I am still and forever learning

Apollyphelion said:
You can learn A LOT from shitting in the right set and setting!:thumbup:

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OfflineIrieforester
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Re: Social con or Libertarian? The argument for Sarah's Libertarian cred. [Re: Irieforester]
    #8890275 - 09/07/08 10:09 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

What the hell happened?


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I am still and forever learning

Apollyphelion said:
You can learn A LOT from shitting in the right set and setting!:thumbup:

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OfflineAncalagon
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Registered: 07/30/02
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Re: Social con or Libertarian? The argument for Sarah's Libertarian cred. [Re: Irieforester]
    #8890311 - 09/07/08 10:20 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Who gives a shit? She's the BOTTOM HALF of the ticket. JOHN MCCAIN, perhaps the least libertarian human to ever run on the GOP ticket, is the TOP HALF. You couldn't pay me enough to enough to cast my libertarian vote for bottom-half Palin, much though I think she has nice titties.


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?When Alexander the Great visted the philosopher Diogenes and asked whether he could do anything for him, Diogenes is said to have replied: 'Yes, stand a little less between me and the sun.' It is what every citizen is entitled to ask of his government.?
-Henry Hazlitt in 'Economics in One Lesson'

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InvisibleMinstrel
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Registered: 03/15/05
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Re: Social con or Libertarian? The argument for Sarah's Libertarian cred. [Re: Ancalagon]
    #8890327 - 09/07/08 10:30 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Clearly she's libertarian enough to allow me to smoke what I want without her blue-light gang throwing me in a cell?  :thumbdown:

The bitch is exactly the same kind of statist we've always seen.  The 'most' libertarian you could see on the GOP ticket is still a fascist.


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Edited by Minstrel (09/07/08 10:35 AM)

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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
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Re: Social con or Libertarian? The argument for Sarah's Libertarian cred. [Re: Irieforester]
    #8890356 - 09/07/08 10:41 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Irieforester said:
Quote:

The gist is that she doesn't want government to tell you how to act./quote]

No, just how you think.
She tried to get certain books banned from her town's library and threatened to fire the librarian who fought her on it.




Lie.  From the Palin rumors thread and here:
"# yes, she did ask the librarian if some books could be withdrawn because of being offensive; no, they couldn’t; yes she did threaten to fire the librarian a month later; no, that wasn’t over the books thing but instead over administrative issues; no, the librarian wasn’t fired either; yes, the librarian was a big supporter of one of her political opponents; yes, the librarian was also the girlfriend of the Chief of police mentioned above; no, this is not the first time in the history of civilization that someone has been threatened with being fired over a political dispute
# No the list of books she wanted to ban that’s being passed around isn’t real; among other things, it includes a number of books published after her time in office there.
# No, that hasn’t actually deterred people from claiming it really is true even if the list isn’t correct. For example:
“This list might not in fact reflect the books Sarah Palin wanted banned. As more than one person in Comments has pointed out, some of them were not published when Palin was in office. It is my hope that the mainstream media will not let this story drop and that at some point an actual list will surface. The very thought of having someone who once advocated book-banning possibly occupying one of the highest offices of our land fills me with profound dread. It should fill you with dread too.”
# No, I don’t understand why a fake list is supposed to fill me with dread, either."

Nos 40-43
http://explorations.chasrmartin.com/2008/09/06/palin-rumors/


Quote:



She wants to teach Creationism in public schools.



Lie.  Same link as above
"no, she didn’t try to force the schools to teach it; she said if someone brought it up, it was an appropriate subject for debate."
Quote:



Opposes sex-ed in public schools, instead opting for horribly outdated abstinence-only programs.




Another lie see this:
"The Republican vice presidential candidate says students should be taught about condoms. Her running mate -- and the party platform -- disagree."

http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-na-sexed6-2008sep06,0,3119305.story ;

Keep up the lies.  They're easy.
At any rate, it seems to be you who wishes to determine how someone should think.  I don't care if she believes in god, they all do, as long as she doesn't try to make me believe in it.  And there is no indication that she does.  Quite the opposite, she seems to be the least coercive candidate I can ever recall.

If you wish to argue that she is not the most Libertarian candidate ever put on a National ticket, make it with some actual facts.  Not spurious innuendo and lies floated by the Kos-sacks.


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
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Re: Social con or Libertarian? The argument for Sarah's Libertarian cred. [Re: Minstrel]
    #8890365 - 09/07/08 10:46 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Minstrel said:
Clearly she's libertarian enough to allow me to smoke what I want without her blue-light gang throwing me in a cell?  :thumbdown:

The bitch is exactly the same kind of statist we've always seen.  The 'most' libertarian you could see on the GOP ticket is still a fascist.




Toke up doood.  And oh by the way, most of your friends and neighbors are fascists, too.  We have drug laws because the people want drug laws.  When that changes let me know.
http://www.pollingreport.com/drugs.htm


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InvisibleMinstrel
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Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 1,974
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Re: Social con or Libertarian? The argument for Sarah's Libertarian cred. [Re: zappaisgod]
    #8890396 - 09/07/08 10:53 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Minstrel said:
Clearly she's libertarian enough to allow me to smoke what I want without her blue-light gang throwing me in a cell?  :thumbdown:

The bitch is exactly the same kind of statist we've always seen.  The 'most' libertarian you could see on the GOP ticket is still a fascist.




Toke up doood.  And oh by the way, most of your friends and neighbors are fascists, too.  We have drug laws because the people want drug laws.  When that changes let me know.
http://www.pollingreport.com/drugs.htm




This is very true.  They seek to impose their moral values upon me, and are willing to initiate aggression against me, and harm me, in order to stop activity that harms no one (except potentially myself).  They won't do it themselves, of course (they lack the courage, and the moral incentive to harm someone who has not harmed them), so they will vote for a third party to do this:  leaders, who command the violent gang called the Police.  But this is all A-Okay in your books, so long as it is the will of the mob.

Democracy is nothing but a legitimized mob.  USA is a republic.  51% should not have the ability to restrict the rights and freedoms of 49%.  When you (and the USA) remember this, let me know.

BTW, I happen to know that NONE of friends are fascists.  They wouldn't be my friends if they thought I should be jailed for what I smoke.  My friends are smart enough to know the damage prohibition causes.  I'm sure you, Elliot^^, see it, too (aren't you this rare, elusive breed of right-winger who wouldn't shun deprohibition?).  Why should you separate this drug issue from the determination of what is/isn't 'libertarian'.  Why should it not be an important aspect of this determination?

:bongload: 


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Edited by Minstrel (09/07/08 11:20 AM)

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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Social con or Libertarian? The argument for Sarah's Libertarian cred. [Re: zappaisgod]
    #8890427 - 09/07/08 11:00 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Minstrel said:
Clearly she's libertarian enough to allow me to smoke what I want without her blue-light gang throwing me in a cell?  :thumbdown:

The bitch is exactly the same kind of statist we've always seen.  The 'most' libertarian you could see on the GOP ticket is still a fascist.




Toke up doood.  And oh by the way, most of your friends and neighbors are fascists, too.  We have drug laws because the people want drug laws.  When that changes let me know.
http://www.pollingreport.com/drugs.htm




And it's ok to restrict someone's rights as long as the majority believes it's not a problem?

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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
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Re: Social con or Libertarian? The argument for Sarah's Libertarian cred. [Re: Redstorm]
    #8890487 - 09/07/08 11:19 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

No, but it is stupid to blame the politicians for doing the bidding of the voters.  If you want to get at the enemy of dope smokers look in the right place.  Next door.  By the way, I am probably as extreme as they get in my views regarding prohibition.  Everything should be available for any adult who wants it.  Of course, any adult who should choose that route forfeits any right to any government assistance of any kind, including a respectful burial.


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InvisibleMinstrel
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Re: Social con or Libertarian? The argument for Sarah's Libertarian cred. [Re: zappaisgod]
    #8890513 - 09/07/08 11:26 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Just like how a negro-slave who doesn't obey the master's orders to pick cotton doesn't get fed.  :frown:

You're off if you obey, because your master knows what's best for you.

The image comes to mind of a horse, who upon a tax collector is riding, dangling a rotten carrot before this horse's eyes, all the while trying to force blinders on, so the horse would see only the carrot.  Only the blinders won't fit, and the horse forsakes the rotten carrot to eat a mushroom, thereupon the ground. 


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Edited by Minstrel (09/07/08 11:42 AM)

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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Social con or Libertarian? The argument for Sarah's Libertarian cred. [Re: zappaisgod]
    #8890517 - 09/07/08 11:27 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Of course, any adult who should choose that route forfeits any right to any government assistance of any kind, including a respectful burial.




Why is this? Should someone who drinks casually be ineligible for any government assistance as well? What determining factor could possibly make someone ineligible for government assistance because they use (in this theoretical situation) a legal substance?

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Social con or Libertarian? The argument for Sarah's Libertarian cred. [Re: Redstorm]
    #8890605 - 09/07/08 12:00 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

I think you have the right to destroy yourself and the government should not interfere with your choice.  That means not getting in the way of your chosen route.  Of course, if you are willing to accept a handout then the hand has every right to demand certain behavior of the beneficiaries of their largesse.  There is a finite of gummint titty and it should not be wasted on junkies and dopers.  You don't give a liver transplant to an alcoholic.


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Social con or Libertarian? The argument for Sarah's Libertarian cred. [Re: zappaisgod]
    #8890612 - 09/07/08 12:03 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
any adult who should choose that route forfeits any right to any government assistance of any kind, including a respectful burial.





I share the same views except fuck government assistance, let
them all die and rot where they sit, it's up to the family to
deal with the sick and the dead

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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Social con or Libertarian? The argument for Sarah's Libertarian cred. [Re: zappaisgod]
    #8890616 - 09/07/08 12:04 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

So you do not see a difference between someone who is a heroin junkie who can not even function in society and someone who smokes pot once every two months?

Why should the latter case be treated any differently than someone who goes out with his or her coworkers for drinks every so often? Unless someone's behavior in regards to intoxicants stops them from being a functioning member of society, I'm not sure why they should be punished.

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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Social con or Libertarian? The argument for Sarah's Libertarian cred. [Re: zappaisgod]
    #8890618 - 09/07/08 12:05 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
There is a finite of gummint titty and it should not be wasted on junkies and dopers. 




what do you think about a drug testing anyone receiving
government aid, this includes illicit drugs as well as
licit substances like alcohol and nicotine

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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Social con or Libertarian? The argument for Sarah's Libertarian cred. [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #8890630 - 09/07/08 12:10 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

what do you think about a drug testing anyone receiving government aid, this includes illicit drugs as well as licit substances like alcohol and nicotine




I think it is a loaded question.  The federal government has no business handing out 'government aid'.  If the states want to implement aid programs, more power to them.  If the states want to set criteria needed to receive said aid, more power to them (as long as it is not discriminatory against race, religion, etc).  The federal government should be protecting the states rights to choose their own path, not forcing all of the states to behave as one.


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Just another spore in the wind.

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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Social con or Libertarian? The argument for Sarah's Libertarian cred. [Re: Seuss]
    #8890640 - 09/07/08 12:12 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

That's neither here nor there, though.

We have federal aid, and at least for now, it is here to stay. What needs to be discussed it what sort of restrictions can and should be set upon their recipients.

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Social con or Libertarian? The argument for Sarah's Libertarian cred. [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #8890648 - 09/07/08 12:13 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Suits me.  You and I seem to mostly agree.  And Redstorm, if anybody who drinks can't get by without handouts they need to fucking stop being such losers and get with the program.  I am going to posit an important corollary.  Move closer and pay attention.  If you need a gummint handout you are already a loser.  If you are taking gummint handouts and still drinking and drugging you need to fucking stop drinking and drugging.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Social con or Libertarian? The argument for Sarah's Libertarian cred. [Re: Redstorm]
    #8890653 - 09/07/08 12:14 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Redstorm said:
That's neither here nor there, though.

We have federal aid, and at least for now, it is here to stay. What needs to be discussed it what sort of restrictions can and should be set upon their recipients.




In this case I support abstinence.


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