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OfflineMyqwerty
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I need some help/advice, I think I'm starting to go crazy
    #8888874 - 09/06/08 10:54 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

First I'll start with my drug use history: Started using adderall and smoking pot right before I turned 16, then at 17 I started smoking salvia, and then started doing ecstasy (only about 2-3 times then, but in the past year about once every 1-2 months), then at 18 I did shrooms once and had a wonderfucl experience where I became enlightened exactly as buddha had described. At 19 (where I'm at now) I did acid twice. The first time was this past December, and it was a very fun and awakening experience. The second time however, this past february, about 1/2 of my trip was the worst, most terrifying experience of my life. I felt nothing but extreme horrifying panic, thinking I might not come back and that I might be dying (even though I knew that was not the case in reality), but it was the most traumatic experience of my life. The only reason I was able to get out of the bad trip was that my girlfriend at the time got me out of it by sleeping with me (which was the most cosmic experience of my life, our souls basically merged and we became one person, both having the same trip at that point). My last bad drug experience was last month, where I stupidly took 60 mg of adderall spread out throughout a full day, (the first time I had used it in a year) which by the end of the day made everything I could see trail worse than on shrooms and I thought I really was dying >_<; I have now however been off of ecstasy for almost 3 months now, haven't smoked pot in over a month, and haven't done anything else besides drink for that time (and am planning to stay off everything sans alcohol and caffeine now).


Now the problem:
For a good few months now
(since april) I have been often experiencing what I can only describe as flashbacks, having anxiety attacks every now and then since April that feel just like the horrible fear/anxiety I had during my bad Acid trip. The first few times they happened I was just woken up in the middle of the night for no reason, then within minutes my heart would start racing and I would feel reality slipping away, feeling like I was about to die. Fortunately the anxiety attacks have lessened lately, but I have a much bigger problem. I now often feel at random times the same thought patterns I had on LSD and shrooms. Basically its the thought/realization that reality is really just an illusion, to quote the matrix, "nothing but electrical signals interpreted by the brain". I just get these feelings of complete hopeless emptiness, that everything about life and reality is fake and that there are many deeper levels to it, which might sound cool but to me feels utterly horrifying. Its scary because when I feel this, I also seem to become totally detached from reality and it just feels like I'm dying and "returning to the all". I get scared that everything I know is an illusion and that this really is all a dream, and that my grip and hold onto this reality slips more and more. Its really hard to explain/describe, but thats the best way I can think of at the moment (basically its the same thoughts as when on acid). I'm just scared at this point that I'm going to eventually get stuck out of reality and not be able to come back >_>; Now when I have panic/anxiety attacks, they are typically triggered from me getting into this mode of thought. The only thing that is able to keep me grounded fully is watching TV or a movie, otherwise if I'm just on my own or with only a couple people or less I might end up thinking about it again and then becoming detached again. This now happens at least 4 times a week, and when it does it lasts from 3 minutes to 40 minutes. The past two weeks its been happening almost every day, but usually for short periods of time. Summed up its basically each day I feel more and more like everything is just a fake dream, and that I'm not going to be able to stay sane/in place with reality. I also seem to be suffering from HPPD, I see static all the time and every now and then things trail slightly, even door edges and wall corners and etc.

Basically the thoughts of detachment and disillusionment of reality and the seeming truth that there is something much bigger going on than we can make sense of are so horrifying and bad that I would kill myself to escape it, except that the thoughts seem like death so dying seems utterly terrifying to me as well >_<; (and don't worry even if I wasn't scared of death I wouldn't do anything stupid, I have too many people who care about me--I'm just emphasizing how bad this is).

I still don't feel like I described everything right but thats basically it...so if anyone has any thoughts or suggestions of what I should do please let me know, thanks!

Edited by Myqwerty (09/06/08 11:17 PM)

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Offlineeseare
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Re: I need some help/advice, I think I'm starting to go crazy [Re: Myqwerty]
    #8888936 - 09/06/08 11:07 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Not being a smart ass but STOP DOING DRUGS. Give yourself a break off everything for awhile. Whether your are truthful on here about whats really going on or not, you know yourself what you are putting yourself through and only you can fix yourself. I went clinically insane when I was 20. NOT FUN!!! I was hospitalized for 96 days. Just stop everything you are doing and go speak someone if need be. You may need to be put on some meds to clear up any misguided chemicals.

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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: I need some help/advice, I think I'm starting to go crazy [Re: Myqwerty]
    #8888944 - 09/06/08 11:10 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Sounds like HPPD mixed with DP/DR.  Either lay off the drugs for a long time (this means no alcohol, no weed), or if you're feeling ballsy see if a low dose mushroom trip can fix things.  It sounds like you had difficulty letting to into ego death on your last trip, and re-entering into consensus reality without resolution can definitely lead to psychological problems.


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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OfflineMyqwerty
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Re: I need some help/advice, I think I'm starting to go crazy [Re: eseare]
    #8888948 - 09/06/08 11:11 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

oh also I forgot to mention that (largely due to this) I have been seeing a psychiatrist all summer, and from june to late july I was on zoloft, but it seemed to make me feel weirder so I stopped using it (with Dr's consent).

But basically yeah I am never touching drugs again ever.

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OfflinePatisotagami
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Re: I need some help/advice, I think I'm starting to go crazy [Re: Myqwerty]
    #8889081 - 09/06/08 11:56 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

You said:
"I just get these feelings of complete hopeless emptiness, that everything about life and reality is fake and that there are many deeper levels to it, which might sound cool but to me feels utterly horrifying."

I know what you mean. After my first intense shroom trip, I felt the same way. I didn't know how my life would ever be able to return to normal now that I knew so much MORE about the universe...

How could I reassociate into society with the lessons I had learned?

And not only that, but I did feel the same way that you felt for a very long time. Lately, I have begun to feel as though I may be different from many of my friends in college. They enjoy partying, drinking, seeking pleasure. But really, you are right! These things that most people call "enjoying life" are utter delusions. As you say, they are "fake". But they really are not fake... they are simply not important! They are things that society has placed importance on, like going to college, getting a job, getting married, earning money... even emotions! We have placed importance on being HAPPY, SECURE, etc....

But in reality, these things do not exist outside of the human realm. Earth is a very interesting place, but if it were to be destroyed on by an asteroid next year, there must still be some point to the fact that there exists a Universe out there without humans on it!

You see, you have experienced something called Ego Death. What you are struggling with is trying to reassociate yourself into normal society with this newfound unity you have with the Universe. I have been struggling with it for about 6 months now, but I am finally beginning to understand. You see, this may not be what you want to hear, but Zen Buddhists have understood this fact for thousands of years... and it might help you to try basic meditation technique. It is a way to express your true nature as a human--as an organism on this earth--and as a being in the Universe. We don't HAVE to be always thinking about work, or what we did 5 minutes ago, or what we need to get done 5 minutes in the future. It is society that has conditioned us to think otherwise. Think about it--everything you know you have learned from society or members of society in one way or another. Sometimes, we can just be

There is a quote by the Buddha that I think you will find useful:
"Rather than continuing to seek the truth, simply let go of your views."

If you ever want to talk, just PM me. My aim screen name is samjb923 as well and you and anyone else who would like to may feel free to IM me if you'd like to talk! Good luck with this. I know how scary it is to think you are "going crazy"... Just remember, that Society is the only thing that deems a person "crazy". It is just a mental state. If you think that you are "normal", then you are. That is all that truly matters.


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EVERYTHING IS EVERYTHING

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Offlinezootroid
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Re: I need some help/advice, I think I'm starting to go crazy [Re: Myqwerty]
    #8889086 - 09/06/08 11:57 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

I had two bad mushroom trips. In a nutshell, basically the same thing you went through. I thought I was dying, it was terrifying etc.

It took me a good year and a bit before I could drink or smoke pot again. Each night I went to go to sleep I had to keep my body moving or the horrible body buzz that accompanied the bad trip would start to engulf my body in seconds. It scared the shit out of me, because this occurred over three months anyways. I didn't think I was going to be fine.

It's been quite a while since I went through that, however, I'm 110% recovered. What did I learn? Research the substance you are using to better prepare for that kind of thing.

I've done mushrooms 5 or 6 times since and all my trips have been fine.

You just need to realize it's just a trip and that you're back in reality and you are safe. It's going to take some time getting better.

In the mean time, try something I discovered with myself. I smoked up and when I had the flashback, I started taking my pulse. My pulse wasn't really any faster than it is when I'm sober. The rapid heartbeat I was getting was all in my head.

Take care man, you WILL be fine. I didn't think I was going to be, but here I am telling you that it's only temporary.

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OfflineMajawala
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Re: I need some help/advice, I think I'm starting to go crazy [Re: zootroid]
    #8889892 - 09/07/08 07:36 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

i went through a similar sort of thing. i tried ayahuasca with some guides a couple times but that didnt work. it got bad enough that i went with ssri's. everything isnt as good as it could be yet but it definatly calmed my anxiety and is helping me recover. i had to stick with the pills for 5 weeks then within two days a lot of shit just lifted. it may take a while to recover but the bright side is that its a great learning experience.

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OfflineDimensionX
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Re: I need some help/advice, I think I'm starting to go crazy [Re: Myqwerty]
    #8889975 - 09/07/08 08:13 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)


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OfflinePatisotagami
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Re: I need some help/advice, I think I'm starting to go crazy [Re: DimensionX]
    #8890421 - 09/07/08 10:58 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Wow...
Thanks a lot DimensionX for that post. I'm going to try to find that book in print form somewhere.

That is great!


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EVERYTHING IS EVERYTHING

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OfflinegeokillsA
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Re: I need some help/advice, I think I'm starting to go crazy [Re: Myqwerty]
    #8890490 - 09/07/08 11:20 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

I don't have much specific direction for ya, though I do feel that in your mental state it is a good idea to stay away from mind altering substances at least until you feel secure again.  I believe it's also worth noting that given your age (19/20), you're likely in or close to a big transitional phase from adolescence into adulthood.  That's not always an easy experience to handle on its own, let alone in the midst of other anxiety combined with excessive drug use.

Just try not to worry about what this reality is all about, what is real and what is not.  The bottom line is, that which we experience in our mind is real to us, as real as it gets.  So roll with it, sap enjoyment from it the best that you can, and don't stress over all the other unknowns in this existence because they simply aren't worth losing your mind over.  Focus your energy on that which brings you happiness, whatever it may be.


Quote:

smmu said:

I didn't know how my life would ever be able to return to normal now that I knew so much MORE about the universe...

These things that most people call "enjoying life" are utter delusions.

But in reality, these things do not exist outside of the human realm.

...there must still be some point to the fact that there exists a Universe out there [even] without humans on it!



Do you really know that much more about the universe from having taken a psychedelic?  I believe that if anything, you may come to know more about yourself; but to presume that you have attained a universal understanding of all that exists seems a little naive.

It's a scary thought to me, holding the belief that what humans do to enjoy their lives are utter delusions.  Whatever humans do to enjoy their lives, whichever paths each individual may choose to walk, is not any more right or wrong than another - the persuit of happiness is not a delusion if one obtains happiness through it.  The reality is not that these things do not exist outside of the human realm, but that we exist within it, and therefore these things are very much our reality.  Why must there be a point to the universe?  Why cannot it be a complete fluke of chance?  Order in chaos.  Chaos in order. 

I don't mean to get down on or ridicule your ideas, only attempting to offer an alternate perspective. 
We can only do that which we believe is correct for ourselves.  Create happiness internally.

My best wishes to the original poster. :sun:


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··∙   long live the shroomery  ∙··
...π╥ ╥π...

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OfflinePatisotagami
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Re: I need some help/advice, I think I'm starting to go crazy [Re: geokills]
    #8890666 - 09/07/08 12:18 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

geokills said:
We can only do that which we believe is correct for ourselves.  Create happiness internally.





I completely agree.

We create that which we believe in our minds. Our worlds are created in our heads. I will never experience your experience of the world, just as you will never experience my version of the world. There is very little debate to this statement.

But at the same time, society has created layers of delusion upon which we can "delayer", to view ourselves from a perspective of true understanding that only exists outside of the delusion itself.

We can get there, through meditation, yoga, or some psychoactive (mind-altering) drugs (if used properly in the right set and setting)... But it is up to us. We must seek out diligently our own salvation.


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EVERYTHING IS EVERYTHING

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OfflinegeokillsA
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Re: I need some help/advice, I think I'm starting to go crazy [Re: Patisotagami]
    #8892382 - 09/07/08 06:34 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

smmu said:

society has created layers of delusion upon which we can "delayer", to view ourselves from a perspective of true understanding that only exists outside of the delusion itself.

We must seek out diligently our own salvation.



I suppose I don't understand what we need salvation from?  Unless you mean salvation from ourselves; from a self-imposed sabotage?

Does society really create layers of delusion?  I will agree that society may impose a structure upon us, but if we have successfully manifested our own happiness within this structure, what are we trying to save ourselves from?  Regardless of whether we frame our interpretations from society's perspective or another, we can never remove ourselves from our own humanity, and therefore I believe we will always embody some sort of bias regardless of how "true" we believe our understandings to be.

My take; to throw oneself down the waterslide of existance, enjoying the entorpy and choas all about us!  Not trying to live above it, or without it, but living in it, and being comfortable with the experience as it is.  Absolutely crazy but absolutely wonderful! :heart:


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OfflinePatisotagami
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Re: I need some help/advice, I think I'm starting to go crazy [Re: geokills]
    #8893735 - 09/07/08 10:31 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

geokills said:
Does society really create layers of delusion?




I'll try to give an example that makes clear the layers of delusion that I speak, or more accurately, write of.

You speak of happiness as something that one has "manifested". This in and of itself speaks of its own nature!

What are some of the 'things' that our western society has told us that we "need" in order to be "happy"?
-money
-a job
-a college education
-children
-a significant other
-a big-screen TV with a thousand channels... etc.. etc..

All of these things are just that: Things! They are distractions that society has trained us into believing that we "need" in order to be "happy".

Now the truth:
What do we need to really, truly, fundamentally exist?
-sustenance
-water
-shelter

And at times, we can go stretches of time without even these. The human condition is what the mind makes it.
And this is what makes our delusion that we live in and are surrounded by. I can walk down my street, to the city I live in on any given day and be bombarded by street preachers selling me their version of dogma. The tall buildings we are so proud to have produced... the chemicals we put into our air which take us from place to place... the intricate infrastructures that we set up that have all come about in the very minute amount of time that humans have inhabited this Earth... we think that we are special for it.

I realize I sound cynical towards humans and that is not my intent. Humans are great, we are just as wonderful as every other organism and every other part of the Universe. But we need to realize that.

Back to the OP... sorry to get so off topic!


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EVERYTHING IS EVERYTHING

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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: I need some help/advice, I think I'm starting to go crazy [Re: Patisotagami]
    #8893745 - 09/07/08 10:33 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

One can be happy without things, granted.  But one can be happier with them.  :tongue:


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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OfflineDimensionX
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Re: I need some help/advice, I think I'm starting to go crazy [Re: Patisotagami]
    #8895213 - 09/08/08 08:12 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Im glad you like the book. In my opinion the concepts are able to be applied to sober life as well as the psychedelic experience.

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Offlinejesserreturns
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Re: I need some help/advice, I think I'm starting to go crazy [Re: Myqwerty]
    #8898886 - 09/08/08 09:36 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

The way that you feel is the same exact way that I feel. I have never even done any psychadellic drugs. I ate a little bit of shrooms a long long time ago, but not enough to really do anything. And that was it. I used to be a tweaker and a cokehead too, but I refuse to think that is what has caused this, and that was years ago. It is hard for me to get through a day sometimes, because I keep falling into these episodes, or mindsets that there is something more to life, like my mind tries to grasp it, and its so horrifying. I become obsessed with the fact about why I am alive and how, and why I am in a human form. Sometimes my voice sounds alien to me, and my arms and legs look strange. I get deathly afraid that I have "lost myself" and will not get myself back. I get horrified that I have lost touch with reality, or that I am stuck in the wrong reality, or that I am going to fall out of reality, or that everything is "black" I get scared that if I make a move the wrong way that I will fall out of my "box" or "self" I awake from sleep confused about my existence and feel sick.

I am convinced it is all just a mindset. I think it is from thinking too much, which i can never stop fucking doing. I think you just have to learn to relax, and let things be, and know that you are alive, and things are okay, and it doesn't matter if there is another reality, or 1000 more realitys, what matters is that we are in this one, and you wouldn't want to waste your life. Anytime I feel like I have lost myself, or like I won't enjoy human life, I just think of a hot guy, and that lets me know I'm still human...I don't feel as if I have some kind of mental disease, I don't feel psychotic, (my brother is schizophrenic, so I know how that works,) I don't hear voices in my head telling me to do things, I don't see things that aren't there, i don't think anyone is conspiring againt me or anything...it all is still incredibly hard to describe. that's the best i can do for now. my new therapist gave me some good advice, "get out of your mind and into your body"

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OfflinePatisotagami
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Re: I need some help/advice, I think I'm starting to go crazy [Re: jesserreturns]
    #8904964 - 09/09/08 11:36 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Hey, welcome to the Shroomery Jesse, if you haven't been here before.

Here is a link to a post I made a month or so ago:

And here is a link to a post from a fellow shroomerite that immensely helped me.
Granted, I also had a moment of kensho, which also helped me to no measurable end. However, I believe we were both in the same place, and I believe that if you need to talk, you could talk to me. My AIM is samjb923, and I'm on all the time, so if you ever feel like reality is not real let me know and we can discuss it a little. Or you can seek resource here on the Shroomery, there are a lot of people here like that who have experience and have pulled through it!

You may be experiencing ego death. Take it for what it is, and know that once you accept it and learn that it is simply how the Universe is, and that you are truly "normal"... since all "normal" is is in your head anyways... you will be happy.


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EVERYTHING IS EVERYTHING

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OfflineMyqwerty
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Re: I need some help/advice, I think I'm starting to go crazy [Re: Patisotagami]
    #8918919 - 09/12/08 02:35 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

yeah what jessereturns is describing is pretty much exactly what I'm feeling/a better description of it I think.

One other thing though is that probably a 1/4 of the times I get into this thought process or start having an anxiety attack I also experience the same "taste" that I experienced both times I did acid. Its this kind of sweet/sour/jelly taste that I had never experienced before LSD, and then experiencing that taste when this happens to me usually just makes me freak out more and start having a really bad anxiety attack :/

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InvisibleSociety
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Re: I need some help/advice, I think I'm starting to go crazy [Re: Myqwerty]
    #8930319 - 09/14/08 07:53 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Myqwerty, I went through a similar experience to you when I was in high school.  My psychedelic usage (including pot) sent my mind on a downward spiral of depression and anxiety.  It's over four years later, but I'm 100% happy with life and 90% anxiety free. 

Most importantly, I acknowledge that I'm not 100% "normal" mentally, and I live peacefully with that notion.

If you want some quick suggestions, here it goes:
-Of course, stay away from all drugs especially psychedelics.  Many people think you should return to the psychedelic world to sort things out.  I never officially did that, and I think it's a terrible idea.
-Stay away from prescriptions for anxiety/depression.  For me, these worsened my situation, and lead to dependence.
-Get as involved with tangible, "sane" aspects in life as possible.  Read a lot, talk to people, build relationships, find hobbies.
-Exercise a lot.  ESPECIALLY cardiovascular exercise such as long distance running, biking, et cetera.  Get a gym membership if you need to... maybe even a personal trainer.  Exercise is unbelievably powerful in mental health.

Most importantly, don't give yourself much time to just sit around and think.  I found that being idle too often leads to the downward spiral of though processes that lead to anxiety, depression, and, yes, focusing seeing the static which you speak of.


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Offlinejesserreturns
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Re: I need some help/advice, I think I'm starting to go crazy [Re: Myqwerty]
    #8950022 - 09/18/08 03:32 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:




"It's a scary thought to me, holding the belief that what humans do to enjoy their lives are utter delusions.  Whatever humans do to enjoy their lives, whichever paths each individual may choose to walk, is not any more right or wrong than another - the persuit of happiness is not a delusion if one obtains happiness through it.  The reality is not that these things do not exist outside of the human realm, but that we exist within it, and therefore these things are very much our reality.  Why must there be a point to the universe?  Why cannot it be a complete fluke of chance?  Order in chaos.  Chaos in order. "
Quote:










I really like that! That's exactly what I think. Problem is i've become so disturbed by the depersonalization i get scared that I can't get back into the groove of life, or that I'll just lose myself completely to utter confusion. I don't want to spend more time worrying about reality or why i'm in the body i'm in then boyfriends or work.. that is just terrible!!

i get very very dizzy sometimes from feeling so disconnected with myself. A lot of times I can't sleep right cause I just lay there feeling so detached and confused about my existence. This proceeds to make me nauseous and dizzy, headache, and I feel like I can't get back into my body to take care of the headache etc, cause I am so lost in the DP. Then I proceed to feel like I'm crazy, and get depressed and panic attacks...

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