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satyr
אתה בעצמך יודע
Registered: 11/13/07
Posts: 3,396
Loc: Alpha Canis Majoris
Last seen: 11 years, 6 months
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Salvia Divinorum, some thoughts
#8781583 - 08/16/08 09:52 AM (15 years, 7 months ago) |
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What is it about Salvia Divinorum that is so unique? This plant which provides a sometimes illuminating, sometimes frightening, often times elusive, psychedelic experience which is unlike any other plant out there. Most people seem to have terrifying, difficult, trips that sometimes involve hallucinations that make no sense whatsoever. (i.e. becoming a chair leg)
Then on rarer occasions, others will have exquisite experiences in which they encounter the goddess/priestess/maiden figure, and the dream is recalled as being very pleasant and enlightening.
After watching the salvia conference with kathleen harrison, this really makes me think. Could there really be some discarnate consciousness within this plant that chooses to reveal itself at will, and when it doesnt, one must wait in some bizarre, alien threshold until the trip is over?
-------------------- Looking for Astrophytum asterias specimens; have cacti for trade
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maysrome
It is a disgusting sandwich.
Registered: 07/28/08
Posts: 1,526
Loc: Alabama, USA
Last seen: 13 years, 5 months
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Re: Salvia Divinorum, some thoughts [Re: satyr]
#8781631 - 08/16/08 10:14 AM (15 years, 7 months ago) |
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i don't understand salvia either.
seems like even when you're chill and cool, have done it a few times, it's still random and you don't know what sort of trip you'll have, good or bad.
Quote:
Could there really be some discarnate consciousness within this plant that chooses to reveal itself at will, and when it doesn't, one must wait in some bizarre, alien threshold until the trip is over?
possibly, similar to that of dmt and other strong hallucinogens?
-------------------- Es muss sein?!
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N2loma
Foaming Pipe Snake
Registered: 05/17/08
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Re: Salvia Divinorum, some thoughts [Re: maysrome]
#8781676 - 08/16/08 10:32 AM (15 years, 7 months ago) |
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I agree that Salvia is a mysterious substance. I remember once being over a threshold of sorts and finally feeling the "force" pushing my chest forward and down, but resisting and saying loudly "ha ha, you can't have me" in defiance, only to have the effects immediately disappear. I felt very stupid thereafter since I had an opportunity to go all the way Thankfully the Lady doesn't seem to have held any grudges and I obtain mainly pleasant effects.
-------------------- "So can you tell me what exactly does freedom mean/ If I'm not free to be as twisted as I wanna be" -Divide by Disturbed Good Guitars Don't Cry
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redgreenvines
irregular verb
Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 38,007
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Re: Salvia Divinorum, some thoughts [Re: N2loma]
#8781701 - 08/16/08 10:42 AM (15 years, 7 months ago) |
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hey senyor you like my seestar
-------------------- _ 🧠_
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NobodyImportant
Stranger
Registered: 05/04/08
Posts: 1,016
Loc: Jawjuh.
Last seen: 11 years, 7 months
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Re: Salvia Divinorum, some thoughts [Re: redgreenvines]
#8781847 - 08/16/08 11:34 AM (15 years, 7 months ago) |
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Salvia is an odd substance for sure but I have had some extremely spiritual and just plain amazing experiences off of it
a few times I learned how to control the feeling of pain in my body and I was able to do it for the next few hours after the trip too
I could make it feel like I was being stabbed while just sitting down and then I could do something like hit my hand with something and have it hurt like hell then make the feeling turn into a good feeling
im finally learning how to control my salvia trips
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Homegrower3000
Irie Guy
Registered: 08/25/08
Posts: 83
Loc: South Africa
Last seen: 14 years, 5 months
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I've only smoked salvia a couple times, but both times I didn't really trip it just felt like a really short really really intense weed high. I took about 6 hits and held them in for a fucking long time, until I needed to breathe and I still didn't trip. Others with me who smoked the same salvia tripped fucking hard. What am I doing wrong? Any ideas?
-------------------- "I'm not guilty. You're the one that's guilty. The lawmakers, the politicians, the Columbian drug lords, all you who lobby against making drugs legal. Just like you did with alcohol during the prohibition. You're the one who's guilty. I mean, c'mon, let's kick the ballistics here: Ain't no Uzi's made in Harlem. Not one of us in here owns a poppy field. This thing is bigger than Nino Brown. This is big business. This is the American way." - Nino Brown(Wesley Snipes), New Jack City (1991)
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golden1
Registered: 06/18/08
Posts: 1,707
Loc: north korea
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Re: Salvia Divinorum, some thoughts [Re: Homegrower3000]
#8830611 - 08/26/08 12:57 PM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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After breaking through probably around 30 times, I have to say there are definitely different types of trips. becoming an inanimate object/s complete insanity(none of your senses make ANY sense, I can't even picture some of the scenes I've seen) dream-like visions(a couple different styles and moods) I'm probably forgetting some
My favorite visual was when I descended into the salvia world and everything in my room turned into masses of snakes coiling around each other. Then the snakes making up everything including myself deformed and started swirling around in amazing patterns. It was unlike every other trip, crazy stuff
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deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
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Re: Salvia Divinorum, some thoughts [Re: satyr]
#8830989 - 08/26/08 02:27 PM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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Well, the reason you feel the Salvia experience is unique is because Salvia is the only psychoactive substance currently known that works through the kappa-opioid receptor--of course it's going to feel fundamentally different from your typical 5-HT2A serotonin receptor activity that comes as a result of shrooms or LSD.
And any "discarnate consciousness" that reveals itself to you through the use of Salvia is present only in your mind, and not in the plant itself.
-------------------- We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
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Platinum
Psychonautical Engineer
Registered: 06/04/08
Posts: 7,575
Loc: New York
Last seen: 6 months, 23 days
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Re: Salvia Divinorum, some thoughts [Re: deCypher]
#8831005 - 08/26/08 02:31 PM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
The Cypher said: And any "discarnate consciousness" that reveals itself to you through the use of Salvia is present only in your mind, and not in the plant itself.
I personally think there is some sort of connection between all salvia users. There's a reason many users report the presence of a woman... and many describe her being the same way. She can be a bitch, or she can show you amazing things. She's very shy, and it takes awhile for her to show herself. There are other characteristics that many people have in common. I've experienced this presence as well, and I really feel like there is SOMETHING in this plant... some presence... some consciousness.
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deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
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Re: Salvia Divinorum, some thoughts [Re: Platinum]
#8831038 - 08/26/08 02:38 PM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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Why do you assume the consciousness has to be present within the plant itself, though? I agree that there are plenty of consistencies across people with the Salvia experience, but all this means is that the Salvia Divinorum compound is capable of manifesting a similar personification of a subconscious entity from user to user. Attributing consciousness or some kind of metaphysical power to a primitive bio-organism seems a slippery slope to a non-rational world view, IMO.
And Datura also appears to exhibit this same property of a female presence--one who is sadistically evil and who will toy with your very concept of reality on a whim, however.
-------------------- We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
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satyr
אתה בעצמך יודע
Registered: 11/13/07
Posts: 3,396
Loc: Alpha Canis Majoris
Last seen: 11 years, 6 months
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Re: Salvia Divinorum, some thoughts [Re: deCypher]
#8831098 - 08/26/08 02:52 PM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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On the contrary, a non-rational world view is just what we need. Rationality hinders possibility.
And who is to say that these experiences only exist in our brains?
-------------------- Looking for Astrophytum asterias specimens; have cacti for trade
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PsilocybinMind
Herb Nerd
Registered: 09/25/06
Posts: 664
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Re: Salvia Divinorum, some thoughts [Re: satyr]
#8831120 - 08/26/08 02:57 PM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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Salvia D. is a very unique plant, and I think it is a good tool for meditation. It defiantly has it's place.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb
Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 38,007
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Re: Salvia Divinorum, some thoughts [Re: deCypher]
#8831358 - 08/26/08 04:11 PM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
The Cypher said: Well, the reason you feel the Salvia experience is unique is because Salvia is the only psychoactive substance currently known that works through the kappa-opioid receptor--of course it's going to feel fundamentally different from your typical 5-HT2A serotonin receptor activity that comes as a result of shrooms or LSD.
And any "discarnate consciousness" that reveals itself to you through the use of Salvia is present only in your mind, and not in the plant itself.
there have been no in-vivo studies of 5-ht2a levels after kappa opioid receptor activation. nobody knows what kappa opioid receptors do.
-------------------- _ 🧠_
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deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
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Re: Salvia Divinorum, some thoughts [Re: redgreenvines]
#8831378 - 08/26/08 04:14 PM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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Well, okay, I'm not denying that serotonin receptors will end up getting indirectly affected by Salvia (the entire brain is a giant, interlocking mechanism and no particular drug can hope to isolate only a single sub-system of the whole), but my point was that the unique dissociative effects and the trip itself seems to be a result of kappa-opioid receptor activation, even if we have no idea how this takes place or what other functions these receptors have in the brain.
-------------------- We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
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satyr
אתה בעצמך יודע
Registered: 11/13/07
Posts: 3,396
Loc: Alpha Canis Majoris
Last seen: 11 years, 6 months
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Re: Salvia Divinorum, some thoughts [Re: redgreenvines]
#8831669 - 08/26/08 05:21 PM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
redgreenvines said:
Quote:
The Cypher said: Well, the reason you feel the Salvia experience is unique is because Salvia is the only psychoactive substance currently known that works through the kappa-opioid receptor--of course it's going to feel fundamentally different from your typical 5-HT2A serotonin receptor activity that comes as a result of shrooms or LSD.
And any "discarnate consciousness" that reveals itself to you through the use of Salvia is present only in your mind, and not in the plant itself.
there have been no in-vivo studies of 5-ht2a levels after kappa opioid receptor activation. nobody knows what kappa opioid receptors do.
To me, this is one of the single most intriguing things about salvinorin. Why does it affect an area of our brain that we know nothing about? What purpose do these receptors serve?
-------------------- Looking for Astrophytum asterias specimens; have cacti for trade
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deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
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Re: Salvia Divinorum, some thoughts [Re: satyr]
#8831712 - 08/26/08 05:35 PM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
satyr said: On the contrary, a non-rational world view is just what we need. Rationality hinders possibility.
And who is to say that these experiences only exist in our brains?
These are the sorts of statements that bother me. Sure, rationality hinders possibility, but that's only referring to the power of imagination and creativity.
If you want to truly understand the world around us and how things work, it's necessary to do so from a logical, methodical foundation. Science enables us to formulate a hypothesis and then test it, which is something a non-rational world view cannot offer.
And who is to say that these experiences exist "outside" of our brains? Unless you have evidence for this assertion, you can only go by what we know, and that restricts us to linking consciousness to some sort of active, complex neural tissue.
-------------------- We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
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tis matt
Stranger
Registered: 12/26/07
Posts: 100
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Re: Salvia Divinorum, some thoughts [Re: satyr]
#8831763 - 08/26/08 05:47 PM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
satyr said: trips that sometimes involve hallucinations that make no sense whatsoever. (i.e. becoming a chair leg)
use this effect of becoming what you see to your advantage. IME many times my senses feel mixed together when on salvia. when listening to music i am sometimes able to hear/see/feel the music, which is quite an experience
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satyr
אתה בעצמך יודע
Registered: 11/13/07
Posts: 3,396
Loc: Alpha Canis Majoris
Last seen: 11 years, 6 months
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Re: Salvia Divinorum, some thoughts [Re: deCypher]
#8831887 - 08/26/08 06:12 PM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
The Cypher said:
Quote:
satyr said: On the contrary, a non-rational world view is just what we need. Rationality hinders possibility.
And who is to say that these experiences only exist in our brains?
And who is to say that these experiences exist "outside" of our brains? Unless you have evidence for this assertion, you can only go by what we know, and that restricts us to linking consciousness to some sort of active, complex neural tissue.
The thing is, science knows NOTHING about consciousness and awareness. That being said, I must go by what I know, which is experience. Things that I have experienced while under the influence of psychedelics have proven to me that there is more going on than simple illusions of the mind. I have experienced things that defy science. Of course, I have no evidence to present of these things, yet the experiences themselves are far greater evidence to me than some half-ass, hypothetical explanation by some discovery channel scientist. There is an infinite number of things in the universe that cannot be measured by science at the present time. Not everything can be proven by evidence, yet this does not mean they are not valid.
I dont think the problem is with science, I believe the problem is with those who control the spread of information. The fact is, that it is extremely convenient for those in power for the major population to believe that we are nothing but bodies and that everything in the universe is entirely random and meaningless.
-------------------- Looking for Astrophytum asterias specimens; have cacti for trade
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PsilocybinMind
Herb Nerd
Registered: 09/25/06
Posts: 664
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Re: Salvia Divinorum, some thoughts [Re: satyr]
#8832036 - 08/26/08 06:44 PM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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I suggest anyone who is interested in this plant to read - Peopled Darkness: Perceptual Transformation through Salvia divinorum by J.D. Arthur. Good read!
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513orangejuice
...
Registered: 07/19/08
Posts: 397
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Re: Salvia Divinorum, some thoughts [Re: satyr]
#8832087 - 08/26/08 06:53 PM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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i have a few questions about salvia for everybody: - when you smoke salvia, does it seem to take you away from all your sences, or does it seem to intensify them?
- does it seem to combine certin sences ( i.e. , seeing sound, energy, etc...), or to seperate them all apart????
Reason being, if it mushes everything together, like the dream mind/subconsious with the waking mind/consiousness, then that could lead to endless self discovery/therapy, or mabie even divination, due to the fact that so many people have predicted the future in thier dreams. Mabie its called "divinorium" for a reason,...(ever had a dream of your teeth falling out? well, its a subconsious metaphor for change, since its the biggest change to happen during a very crucial part of your brains developing. So ussally people that have this dream already know there in for a big change, and there subconsious gets in "teeth falling out" mode.) Also, if it seperates you from your sences, you might have less blockage keeping you from accessing different parts of your brain then you might be able to,..but alcohol dulls alot of your sences too,...
i dont know, it just seems like it mushes everythong together and the world gets really small sometimes,... im really high tho, so none of that may make sence
-------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------- America is a rapist.
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