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Offlinebuggas
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Registered: 09/27/07
Posts: 145
Last seen: 15 years, 7 months
can myc hold off trich?
    #8744470 - 08/08/08 02:17 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

I've got 7 cakes, perlite, shotgun FC, small desk fan blowing around every now and again, humidity 95-100%, temp in mid 80's due to summer and no A/C.

When the cakes were done soaking, they were all blue, one or two smelled a bit like fermentation. I put in FC anyway, and next morning, smell was gone. Later that night, the blue had pretty much faded. I'm assuming they're good by this point.

Even though i gave a full week after colonization, they have been sitting for another week in the FC which is cool because they've thrown out all kinds of myc spikes (probably looking for food) so i'm assuming that they're good and just finishing up consolidating (my bad).

However, on a couple of cakes there is what appears to be very light green on the tips of a spike or two, and a couple of spots directly on the cake. It's been there for a few days and doesn't seem to be spreading or getting darker, but I'm not sure if it's trich or not because i've never seen it before on a project. Cobweb has always been my problem.

I've seen trich on the ground outside and it went from white to green overnight after about a week of colonization. But the  myc wasn't fluffy, it was more like rubbery and bruised a darker grey when pressed.

My question is, how quickly will trich reveal itself and should i just toss these guys before it gets all over the place? Is there any sort of test i can use to tell right away?

If it helps, when i mist them at dawn and dusk, it smells really nice and mushroomy still.

Thanks for your help


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InvisibleSillicybin
Registered: 02/14/05
Posts: 2,134
Loc: Flag
Re: can myc hold off trich? [Re: buggas]
    #8744740 - 08/08/08 03:18 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

If trichoderma has gained enough of a mass to start any type of sporulation, then no, mycelium will succumb to trich - it's just a matter of time.  If it's just surface contamination, you can sometimes kill it off by salting the area of infection - but if you see spores, chances are the infection is inside the cake(s).  Trichoderma is specially suited for killing and eating other species of fungi, including our friends the mushrooms.  It produces enzymes that specifically target the chitin in mycelium (accurately named chitinase).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chitinase

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Offlinebuggas
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Registered: 09/27/07
Posts: 145
Last seen: 15 years, 7 months
Re: can myc hold off trich? [Re: Sillicybin]
    #8746889 - 08/08/08 10:57 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

Thank you for that information. It was really interesting to read about. I kinda got lost in wiki for a while reading it and it's related topics.

I had my doubts, but now I believe it is trich. When i got home, the green was more apparent. I proceeded with a bleach dunk (1% for 4 hrs). Most cakes came out white, one had a nasty grey (not green or blue) spot on it (about the size of a quarter). I'll let them sit for the night, but in the morning me thinks that grey one will be out of there.

When i took my cakes out for the dunk, I also noticed a bunch of cobweb on the bottoms. I think it's from being on the foil and not getting any fresh air underneath. To combat this (assuming my cakes are ok) I got some screen and made some platforms for them to sit on. They may not do any good this time around, but at least now i can learn from my mistakes and hopefully prevent this from happening again.

Thanks a lot!!


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Registered: 03/26/03
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Re: can myc hold off trich? [Re: buggas]
    #8748017 - 08/09/08 09:01 AM (15 years, 7 months ago)

Bleach will not kill trichoderma.  It may bleach the spores white, but the trich mycelium will eat bleach for lunch.  What you describe sounds like bruising, but it will take a picture to tell.
RR


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InvisibleSillicybin
Registered: 02/14/05
Posts: 2,134
Loc: Flag
Re: can myc hold off trich? [Re: buggas]
    #8749850 - 08/09/08 05:56 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

buggas said:
Thank you for that information. It was really interesting to read about.



Any time.

I forgot to mention - an easy way to tell if it's trich or bruising is the q-tip test.  Wet a q-tip and dab the questionable area lightly.  If the q-tip turns green it's from the spores transferring to the cotton.  Bruising will not transfer unless you press REALLY hard.

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Offlinebuggas
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Registered: 09/27/07
Posts: 145
Last seen: 15 years, 7 months
Re: can myc hold off trich? [Re: Sillicybin]
    #8750513 - 08/09/08 08:39 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

that's funny that you mention bleaching the spores white. Aparently there were a few pins that survived the bleaching (so far) and their tops are a really light yellow color. I thought that was pretty cool.

I would love to take a picture but some drunk guy droped my wifes camera and it broke.

I did use the q-tip test first, and nothing transfered. But i thought it was supposed to be dry. I guess it could have been bruising, but I guess i'm just anxious to catch trich early so i don't have to worry about the mess.

Either way, that gray spot turned into a dark gray/charcoal in a few hours so I just used the "when in doubt, throw it out" rule. I also found some grey/black on a couple more so i tossed them in the yard as well. It sucks because when tossing, i broke open and the inside is nice and white and mushroomy smelling. I felt wierd throwing them out. But like everyone who's been contaminated says, it's not worth your life or health for one or two cakes.


On another, somewhat related note... I notice that sometimes when i'm birthing and giving the cakes their first rinse, sometimes if i scratch off some myc, i notice what appears to be a bit of uncolonized substrate. In fact, even thought they were left for a while after birth, some of the brf isn't totally gone. I hand grind it so maybe the chunks are too big.

It's kinda frustrating waiting so long, even after it's all completely white, only to find some uncolonized substrate, that unfortunately is now exposed.


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There are no stupid questions, just stupid answers from stupid people.

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