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OfflineVisionary Tools
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In England, there is no fourth amendment.
    #8691903 - 07/28/08 10:55 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

http://www.infowars.com/?p=3604

  Brit Cops to Search People at Cinemas, Diners, and Hotels

Infowars
July 27, 2008

In Britain, the control grid is moving along at a brisk clip. As if barking CCTVs, random searches, terrorist databases, metal detectors in the street, and other intrusive methods of control and intimidation are not enough, now folks going to the cinema will be searched. The People reports:

    Cinema-goers may be searched on the way into shows in a new crackdown on suicide bombers.

Suicide bombers? Indeed, a big problem in merry old England, never mind one of the last “suicide bombers” that struck on July 7, 2005, planted his bomb under the Circle line train in London. It was apparently a Houdini trick. Maybe the cops will begin crawling under trains, looking for wily bombers determined to disrupt the British way of life?

But it is not simply the cinema:

    Theaters, restaurants and hotels will also be covered in an anti-terror blueprint to be published by Security Minister Lord West later this year.

    Diners, hotel guests and theater-goers could all have to undergo searches.

It seems every sort of public business will be rolled into the control grid:

    From next month owners of pubs, bars and clubs will also be able to take part in exercises with police to make their premises safe.

    Using multi-media DVD simulation they will be told how to spot suspicious customers and evacuate their buildings.

British television now reports Gestapo-like police tactics — random bus searches, drug sniffing dogs, impromptu metal detectors — as if no big deal. From a news report earlier this year:



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InvisibleSlashOZ
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Re: In England, there is no fourth amendment. [Re: Visionary Tools]
    #8691920 - 07/28/08 11:00 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

i'm proud to be an american were at least i know i'm free hahaha britian.


--------------------
"Life sucks but in this really beautiful way" - Axl Rose
"Life's a bitch and then you die that's why we get high cuz you never know when you're gonna go." - NAS
"When people don't know what you're about they put you down and shut you out" - Black Sabbath
"An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind" - Gandhi
"Look up at me I am God, look down on me and I am evil, look at me I am you." - Charles Manson.
"Don't question my reality." - Me (as far as I know)

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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: In England, there is no fourth amendment. [Re: Visionary Tools]
    #8692077 - 07/28/08 12:00 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)


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OfflineCoaster
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Re: In England, there is no fourth amendment. [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #8692601 - 07/28/08 02:16 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

ur acting as if america is better
we do way worse things
and my friend was just in the UK and felt perfectly safe carrying weed around everywhere and didnt here in the states


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Offlinepothead_bob
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Re: In England, there is no fourth amendment. [Re: Visionary Tools]
    #8692663 - 07/28/08 02:39 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

People are so worried about all this terrorist bullshit.  Well, the way I see it, the terrorists are winning/have already won if we live in fear all the time. 

Either Bin Laden is a genius or Bush is a moron... but  look at the infringements that have occured on our privacy and freedoms since 9/11.  I don't know what the hell Bush and these other leaders were/are thinking.


--------------------
No knowledge can be certain, if it is not based
upon mathematics or upon some other knowledge
which is itself based upon the mathematical
sciences.
  -Leonardo da Vinci (1425-1519)

Speak well of your enemies.  After all, you made them.

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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: In England, there is no fourth amendment. [Re: pothead_bob]
    #8692681 - 07/28/08 02:44 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

but  look at the infringements that have occured on our privacy and freedoms since 9/11.




Which infringements are those which were not there before 9/11?

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Offlinepothead_bob
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Re: In England, there is no fourth amendment. [Re: Redstorm]
    #8692760 - 07/28/08 03:08 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Well the Patriot Act, for one.
Habeus Corpus got fucked.
The Bush Admin basically legalized torture... great image for us here in the states.
You have the Military Combatants Act signed into law by Bush in 2006.
There's the FISA bill that just past, which allows warrentless wiretapping of US citizens.
The Bush Admin sets up "free-speech zones" where protestors are allowed to organize during presidential speeches.  These zones are kept away from the media.
There's the National Security Agency that is responsible for basically spying on Americans to "detect terrorist activity", but they've been caught spying on ordinary Americans.

Those are a few examples.  The Bush admin basically treats the rule of law as an inconvenience in "fighting terrorism".


--------------------
No knowledge can be certain, if it is not based
upon mathematics or upon some other knowledge
which is itself based upon the mathematical
sciences.
  -Leonardo da Vinci (1425-1519)

Speak well of your enemies.  After all, you made them.

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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: In England, there is no fourth amendment. [Re: pothead_bob]
    #8692797 - 07/28/08 03:17 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

What does the Patriot Act stop you from doing that you could do before it was passed?

If you're a Us citizen, your habeus corpus has not been affected.

When has a US citizen been tortured?

How does the Military Combatants Act affect your rights as a citizen?

Free speech zones existed before the Bush presidency.

I'll ask you again:

As a US citizen, what freedoms have been taken from you since 9/11? What were you able to do then that you can not do now?

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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: In England, there is no fourth amendment. [Re: pothead_bob]
    #8692806 - 07/28/08 03:19 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

pothead_bob said:
Well the Patriot Act, for one.
Habeus Corpus got fucked.
The Bush Admin basically legalized torture... great image for us here in the states.
You have the Military Combatants Act signed into law by Bush in 2006.
There's the FISA bill that just past, which allows warrentless wiretapping of US citizens.
The Bush Admin sets up "free-speech zones" where protestors are allowed to organize during presidential speeches.  These zones are kept away from the media.
There's the National Security Agency that is responsible for basically spying on Americans to "detect terrorist activity", but they've been caught spying on ordinary Americans.

Those are a few examples.  The Bush admin basically treats the rule of law as an inconvenience in "fighting terrorism".






patriot act and the military commisions act are the only things that were new.  I guess you could include the wiretaps, but those were always possible, just ramped up and acknowledged now


The military commisions act was also pretty much gutted of the contentious portions too, if you didn't notice, and even those aren't without precedent.


Basically your upset over the patriot act.

I agree the stuff in the above is bullshit, but whatever...

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Offlinepothead_bob
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Re: In England, there is no fourth amendment. [Re: Redstorm]
    #8692878 - 07/28/08 03:40 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

First of all, I'm not just talking about US citizens... if you'll remember, this post didn't even start out about the US.  Incase you didn't know, by the way, there are 12 million people that live here in the USA that are legal residents, but not citizens.  Everything I mentioned in my first post can be used against them.

But since you ask, a stipulation of the Patriot Act is that citizens can be held without a trial as "Enemy Combatants".  If you want stories, go here:

http://www.infowars.net/articles/december2005/091205Patriot_act.htm

Yes, free speech zones existed before, but they were very limited, unlike today; however, I'll give it to you that they're not a result of 9/11.  They're just a result of an asshole tyrant in the White House.

How come you didn't mention FISA?  I mentioned that.  That allowes US citizens to be spyed on by telecom companies if they talk to ppl outside the US.


--------------------
No knowledge can be certain, if it is not based
upon mathematics or upon some other knowledge
which is itself based upon the mathematical
sciences.
  -Leonardo da Vinci (1425-1519)

Speak well of your enemies.  After all, you made them.

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Offlinepothead_bob
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Re: In England, there is no fourth amendment. [Re: johnm214]
    #8692902 - 07/28/08 03:46 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

I guess you could include the wiretaps, but those were always possible, just ramped up and acknowledged now




I'm not talking about wiretaps.  I'm talking about warrentless wiretaps.  They were illegal before 9/11, but now FISA allows telecom companies to be pardoned.  Thankfully, the ACLU is suing the government over it.  Hopefully, they get it revoked.

The fact that the MCA was found unconstitutional doesn't matter because it was still in effect for almost two years and was an injustice. So it's still an act that reduced freedoms after 9/11.

Quote:

I agree the stuff in the above is bullshit, but whatever...




Well, if you agree then...?  It's the small chipping away at our freedom that's the problem.


--------------------
No knowledge can be certain, if it is not based
upon mathematics or upon some other knowledge
which is itself based upon the mathematical
sciences.
  -Leonardo da Vinci (1425-1519)

Speak well of your enemies.  After all, you made them.

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Re: In England, there is no fourth amendment. [Re: pothead_bob]
    #8692938 - 07/28/08 03:53 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

You have not shown any proof that the use of free speech zones is due to Bush's presidency. They are used both by the Democrats and Republicans equally.

Also, FISA warrants have been around long before Bush ever even considered running for president.

I will concede the enemy combatants point to you, though.

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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: In England, there is no fourth amendment. [Re: Redstorm]
    #8692961 - 07/28/08 03:58 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Redstorm said:
What does the Patriot Act stop you from doing that you could do before it was passed?




I can no longer blow up federal buildings without being called a terrorist



Quote:

When has a US citizen been tortured?




well that depends?

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=16611559

does killing people in custody also count as torture?
if not... lets look a chicago
http://www.chicagoreader.com/policetorture/

or lets look at the prison system
http://www.rhrealitycheck.org/blog/2007/12/11/powerless-in-prison-sexual-abuse-against-incarcerated-women
http://www.spr.org/en/sprnews/2002/0507.asp
http://toysoldier.wordpress.com/2007/03/07/sexual-abuse-scandal-rocks-texas-juvenile-prison-system/

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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: In England, there is no fourth amendment. [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #8692968 - 07/28/08 04:00 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Are occurrences of abuses by prison employees GW's fault?

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Offlinepothead_bob
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Re: In England, there is no fourth amendment. [Re: Redstorm]
    #8692973 - 07/28/08 04:02 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

You have not shown any proof that the use of free speech zones is due to Bush's presidency. They are used both by the Democrats and Republicans equally.




I said I'll give that one to you.  It's not a result of 9/11.  You're right on that count.

Quote:

Also, FISA warrants have been around long before Bush ever even considered running for president.




Yes, but FISA was amended with the Protect America Act of 2007, which is the part that removed the requirement for warrants.  That's the part that is in direct defiance of our Constitution.

I mean, really, you don't think there's a significant amound of loss of cilil liberty that occured after 9/11?  Or at least bills and acts that shouldn't have been signed into law because of terrorism?


--------------------
No knowledge can be certain, if it is not based
upon mathematics or upon some other knowledge
which is itself based upon the mathematical
sciences.
  -Leonardo da Vinci (1425-1519)

Speak well of your enemies.  After all, you made them.

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Offlinepothead_bob
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Re: In England, there is no fourth amendment. [Re: pothead_bob]
    #8692983 - 07/28/08 04:04 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Are occurrences of abuses by prison employees GW's fault?




Not that I know of.  More so just our fucked up justice system, in general, and a War on US Citizens... I mean Drugs.  Which, of course, every administration since Nixon had their hands in.


--------------------
No knowledge can be certain, if it is not based
upon mathematics or upon some other knowledge
which is itself based upon the mathematical
sciences.
  -Leonardo da Vinci (1425-1519)

Speak well of your enemies.  After all, you made them.

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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: In England, there is no fourth amendment. [Re: Redstorm]
    #8692992 - 07/28/08 04:07 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

no more his fault than the taser being declared a torture device,
but the question was "when has a US citizen been tortured"
lots of citizens are tortured, sure bush didnt do it, sure it's
not through his authorization, sure it's been going on longer than
the patriot act has been in force but never the less, it happens

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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: In England, there is no fourth amendment. [Re: pothead_bob]
    #8693063 - 07/28/08 04:24 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

pothead_bob said:
Quote:

I guess you could include the wiretaps, but those were always possible, just ramped up and acknowledged now




I'm not talking about wiretaps.  I'm talking about warrentless wiretaps.  They were illegal before 9/11, but now FISA allows telecom companies to be pardoned.  Thankfully, the ACLU is suing the government over it.  Hopefully, they get it revoked.

The fact that the MCA was found unconstitutional doesn't matter because it was still in effect for almost two years and was an injustice. So it's still an act that reduced freedoms after 9/11.






I know you were talking about warantless wiretaps.

They were not illegal before 9/11.


Find me the authority that says they were.


I agree they are garbage, and probably should be illegal, but whatever.

I think its relativly clear the presidents power extends to domestic to international or vise versa spying to protect the united states in a military/national security capacity.

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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: In England, there is no fourth amendment. [Re: pothead_bob]
    #8693163 - 07/28/08 04:51 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Believe me, there is a lot of things that I disagree with that has occurred since 9/11, including the Patriot Act.

I just don't think it is all (or even mostly) Bush's fault. We've been heading down this road for quite some time. That's not to say Bush isn't a fuck-up, though.

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InvisibleMr Me
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Re: In England, there is no fourth amendment. [Re: Redstorm]
    #8693287 - 07/28/08 05:19 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Bush is a scapegoat. He has two brain cells that are cushioned with plenty of cocaine and booze. He signs statements allowing things like the patriot act to go through, or "US citizens can have habeas corpus, unless they are an enemy combatant" Then it's no holds barred torture, including to children

http://www.dark-truth.org/okt16-2006-6.html
http://www.propagandamatrix.com/articles/september2006/290906sexuallytorture.htm
http://www.mormon.citymax.com/LDSJudge.html
http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_9866059
http://boingboing.net/2004/07/15/hersh-children-raped.html

Bush puts his name to statements made by lobbyists, lawmakers who hide behind him, and are accountable to none. By signing these statements, Bush has proven he is evil, but what happened to the last president that tried to stop the corruption in the US?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods

Quote:


It has been reported that John F. Kennedy personally rejected the Northwoods proposal, but no official record of this exists. The proposal was sent for approval to the Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara, but was not implemented. President Kennedy removed General Lyman Lemnitzer as Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff shortly afterward, although he became Supreme Allied Commander of NATO in January 1963.

The continuing push against the Cuban government by internal elements of the U.S. military and intelligence community (the failed Bay of Pigs Invasion, the Cuban Project, etc.) prompted President John F. Kennedy to attempt to rein in burgeoning hardline anti-Communist sentiment that was intent on proactive, aggressive action against communist movements around the globe. After the Bay of Pigs, John F. Kennedy fired then CIA director Allen W. Dulles, Deputy Director Charles P. Cabell, as well as Deputy Director Richard Bissell, and turned his attention towards Vietnam.





Was JFK a communist sympathiser, or was he trying to prevent unecessessary bloodshed? I encourage everyone here to find out for themselves, come to their own conclusions, and share them. Every unique insight should be encouraged, this way overlapping areas of perception will reduce blindspots in this disgusting scandal.

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