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Chronic7
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
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The Unchaning Self
#8594840 - 07/04/08 12:56 PM (15 years, 8 months ago) |
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Throughout the years we learn to like & dislike certain things, we are given names & taught how to act in certain situations, learning right from wrong. We form loving attachments to desirable objects and reject undesirable objects. Then we start forming a personality of preferences, but all these preferences are for objects appearing before us, nothing original.
Through all our likes & dislikes & intellectual/mind conditioning we seem to become a rounded personality that we identify as "me". Due to this constricted identity based on objects we feel a sense of limitation, like "all this conditioning cant define who i really am", this leaves a feeling of unfullfillment as its all just passed on knowledge that changes, nothing permanently fulfilling.
This very basis for forming personality/identity shows that our identities are false, they are given identities, not who we really are. We must always be who we really are, not defined by any objects.
We are all to some extent feeling like there is something within us that is not subject to change, our sense of Self. Even through childhood, teen years & adulthood where so much personality changes, there is a sense of unchanging Self that has been present all along.
"Im always me, it just seems like i change alot over the years, but somehow i'm always me!"
At not one point in your life can you look back and say "yes, that year of 1997 i was "me" but then i learned something new and became someone else" how can you ever become someone else!? You must always be you.
Imagine you had been adopted and raised by another family, would your personality be the same? Id bet not. But you'd still be "you" right!? There would still be a sense of unchanging Self even with an adopted conditioning.
Id suggest to everyone here to find out who this unchanging Self is.
Who you are you before you started attaching? Before any changing personality was formed? Before you formed an identity with any object? Even the most intimate object, your body, can not define who you are.
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Edited by Chronic7 (07/04/08 01:06 PM)
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: The Unchaning Self [Re: Chronic7]
#8595054 - 07/04/08 02:01 PM (15 years, 8 months ago) |
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Id suggest to everyone here to find out who this unchanging Self is.
I am that I am. I AM the Icelander.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Boots
Disenchanted
Registered: 07/25/07
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Loc: Northwood, Ohio, U.S.A.
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Re: The Unchaning Self [Re: Chronic7]
#8595056 - 07/04/08 02:03 PM (15 years, 8 months ago) |
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It's just a way to stay grounded. The word doesn't mean all that much. I believe there was a thread here awhile ago that talked about an ever-changing identity and how we are not the same, day-to-day, because we are always taking in new information that essentially changes us completely.
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Chronic7
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
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Re: The Unchaning Self [Re: Boots]
#8595098 - 07/04/08 02:20 PM (15 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Boots said: because we are always taking in new information that essentially changes us completely.
This is my point, you say "new information that essentially changes us completely"
I have no doubt that what we are essentially does not change, don't you have the sense that you are the same person you were 10 years ago?
We dont need to define ourselves in external objects, the only reason we attach to external objects is for happyness, when the happyness is inside us already and all objectives do is return us to our natural Self.
This is why by not touching any object and keeping your attention on the Self that is unchanging you reach the highest bliss
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Rose
Devil's Advocate
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Re: The Unchaning Self [Re: Icelander]
#8595175 - 07/04/08 02:50 PM (15 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said: Id suggest to everyone here to find out who this unchanging Self is.
I am that I am. I AM the Icelander.
Look at the title of this thread!
I am still trying to figure out who the unCHANing self is...
-------------------- Fiddlesticks.
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SatChitAnanda
Stranger
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Re: The Unchaning Self [Re: Rose]
#8595312 - 07/04/08 03:32 PM (15 years, 8 months ago) |
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"Everyone feeds you what you are not"~Adyashanti
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: The Unchaning Self [Re: Rose]
#8595393 - 07/04/08 03:57 PM (15 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Cervantes said:
Quote:
Icelander said: Id suggest to everyone here to find out who this unchanging Self is.
I am that I am. I AM the Icelander.
Look at the title of this thread!
I am still trying to figure out who the unCHANing self is...
I don't expect much from the modern educational system.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Middleman
Registered: 07/11/99
Posts: 8,399
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"Awareness can be a real bitch at a certain point in this process." ~ Adyashanti
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blewmeanie
Registered: 10/01/06
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Re: The Unchaning Self [Re: Chronic7]
#8596554 - 07/05/08 03:09 AM (15 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Chronic777 said:
Quote:
Boots said: because we are always taking in new information that essentially changes us completely.
This is my point, you say "new information that essentially changes us completely"
I have no doubt that what we are essentially does not change, don't you have the sense that you are the same person you were 10 years ago?
We dont need to define ourselves in external objects, the only reason we attach to external objects is for happyness, when the happyness is inside us already and all objectives do is return us to our natural Self.
This is why by not touching any object and keeping your attention on the Self that is unchanging you reach the highest bliss
We only seem like the same person, because we relate to the memory's of our past self. Even with memory's of very significant events where the memory seems exceptionally vivid we still remember with our current perspective. I have a ton of memory's from when I was 2 or 3 at the most, but when I think about it my perspective isnt a baby's perspective its my own. If you keep a notebook of your thoughts, and daily notes for long enough it eventually feels like you're reading somone elses thoughts. Even my notebooks from 10 years ago seem like a completely different person with different thoughts, and a different style of writing.
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Chronic7
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
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Re: The Unchaning Self [Re: blewmeanie]
#8596623 - 07/05/08 05:36 AM (15 years, 8 months ago) |
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If who you take to be you is what you've learned and your personality, then fear of death will rule your life. You may not realize it but all actions of the ego are in defensiveness of the fear of death. When you fully realize you are not personality but you are what accepted the idea of a changing personality, then you are free of all this.
Just simply look...how can you be personality if you observe personality? Doesn't that mean your the observer before personality was formed, & you took on the idea of being a personality?
I suppose many are just still enjoying the idea of becoming something different, id suggest inspecting this idea and seeing if its real because i can assure you whatever you collect in this life will be lost at some point in time. Nothing stays with what you are, not even a history or any story. Not to say don't collect or that objects are bad, just dont attach & define yourself in all these objects.
These objects are here to trick you to get you to define yourself in them, don't buy it!!!
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SatChitAnanda
Stranger
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Re: The Unchaning Self [Re: Chronic7]
#8596676 - 07/05/08 07:08 AM (15 years, 8 months ago) |
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It's all just fireworks, and all fireworks come and go.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb
Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 38,009
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Re: The Unchaning Self [Re: Chronic7]
#8596693 - 07/05/08 07:45 AM (15 years, 8 months ago) |
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I think that it really is good to look for a core, for a thing that was there before, the rest of the logical entanglement as presented is too fancy, and it gets garbled by an effort to train self and others. take it easy, visit your good ideas gently.
-------------------- _ 🧠_
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Chronic7
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
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Quote:
SatChitAnanda said: It's all just fireworks, and all fireworks come and go.
Nice analogy, what sees the fireworks?
Quote:
redgreenvines said: I think that it really is good to look for a core, for a thing that was there before, the rest of the logical entanglement as presented is too fancy, and it gets garbled by an effort to train self and others. take it easy, visit your good ideas gently.
after all the things we look for in life it all ends up looking for the core, the power of maya is there to keep us from doing so, but all beings eventually realize this, the evolution of consciousness is merely an evolution to awareness, the joke being consciousness is never not aware!
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Edited by Chronic7 (07/05/08 08:25 AM)
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SatChitAnanda
Stranger
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Re: The Unchaning Self [Re: Chronic7]
#8596753 - 07/05/08 08:35 AM (15 years, 8 months ago) |
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What sees the fireworks? That is the million dollar question
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Chronic7
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
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Quote:
SatChitAnanda said: What sees the fireworks? That is the million dollar question
Stay with the question & don't wait for any answers, just stay with the seeing.
Try this for a couple of minutes please, im sure you will enjoy it
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SatChitAnanda
Stranger
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Re: The Unchaning Self [Re: Chronic7]
#8596870 - 07/05/08 09:42 AM (15 years, 8 months ago) |
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On the relative side of the street, there is work to be done.
As Don Juan said, not in these exact words, "There are a million paths out there that all lead to no where, the only difference is that some fortify the heart and others do not. Only choose a path that is heart centered."
It is easy to become enlightened, it is hard to be a truly noble and compassionate person.
All the meditating and self-inquiry in the world is not enough to alleviate and heal our inner wounds and unconscious, shadow material. Wilber says openly, "There are alot of enlightened dickheads out there".
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Chronic7
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
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Quote:
SatChitAnanda said: On the relative side of the street, there is work to be done.
As Don Juan said, not in these exact words, "There are a million paths out there that all lead to no where, the only difference is that some fortify the heart and others do not. Only choose a path that is heart centered."
It is easy to become enlightened, it is hard to be a truly noble and compassionate person.
All the meditating and self-inquiry in the world is not enough to alleviate and heal our inner wounds and unconscious, shadow material. Wilber says openly, "There are alot of enlightened dickheads out there".
Would an enlightened person call someone a dickhead?
Thats how i know im not fully enlightened, sumone cuts me up in theyre car they will more than likely get called a cunt. But i recognize this as "woah, where id that come from" and it happens less & less, some would enjoy calling someone a cunt, i used to! I feel sick when i do it now.
I dont agree that being compassionate is hard, its hard to hate people, as that takes alot of energy and it's so draining, because "you" have to hate, there has to be a "you" to hate "other", loving is the simplest thing to do as there is no-one to do it, it just is.
The belief that we have to do something to find love or be loved is the biggest lie we tell ourselves.
I agree that people dont seem to put theyre knowledge into practice, but really we all know better but dont do better.
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Rose
Devil's Advocate
Registered: 09/24/03
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Re: The Unchanging Self [Re: Chronic7]
#8597483 - 07/05/08 01:43 PM (15 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Chronic777 said:
Would an enlightened person call someone a dickhead?
Would an enlightened person flood this forum with posts?
Would an enlightened person preach?
Would an enlightened person offer answers even when there were none?
Do enlightened people really exist?
-------------------- Fiddlesticks.
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blewmeanie
Registered: 10/01/06
Posts: 28,984
Loc:
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Re: The Unchaning Self [Re: Chronic7]
#8597733 - 07/05/08 03:17 PM (15 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Chronic777 said: If who you take to be you is what you've learned and your personality, then fear of death will rule your life.
I have died, and its not such a scary thing. Your assumptions are way off on that one.
Quote:
You may not realize it but all actions of the ego are in defensiveness of the fear of death.
Source? Its easy to make blanket statements, but what do you have to back it up?
Quote:
When you fully realize you are not personality but you are what accepted the idea of a changing personality, then you are free of all this.
Just simply look...how can you be personality if you observe personality? Doesn't that mean your the observer before personality was formed, & you took on the idea of being a personality?
Only if you start with the assumption that these are two separate things. Aside from "my" own tendency to see myself as an individual, I see know evidence to suggest "I" am anything more than a series of decisions.
Quote:
I suppose many are just still enjoying the idea of becoming something different, id suggest inspecting this idea and seeing if its real because i can assure you whatever you collect in this life will be lost at some point in time. Nothing stays with what you are, not even a history or any story. Not to say don't collect or that objects are bad, just dont attach & define yourself in all these objects.
One thing I've learned from being involved with buddhism for my entire life is that anytime someone starts spouting black and white generalizations about everyone its a good idea to walk away. The one thing that stands consistent with buddhism, and every other similar method concerned with consciousness is the lack of universal statements about individuals. You can never know how the world is through my eyes just as I can never know how it appears through yours. With that in mind it is completely irrational to believe that you could somehow define what another's motivations and hang ups are, especially without even meating them.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: The Unchanging Self [Re: Rose]
#8597769 - 07/05/08 03:28 PM (15 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Cervantes said:
Quote:
Chronic777 said:
Would an enlightened person call someone a dickhead?
Would an enlightened person flood this forum with posts?
Would an enlightened person preach?
Would an enlightened person offer answers even when there were none?
Do enlightened people really exist?
Good point! Enlightenment as it is portrayed on these forums is a form of self-importance. The difference being that those caught up in it are pretending they don't have any.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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