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InvisibleShroomismM
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Speech, linguistics.. and social anxiety?
    #8592012 - 07/03/08 03:37 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

Ok.. so I'm a fairly intelligent person. I didn't have the happiest childhood and I've had my share of totally fucked up relationships and bad experiences throughout the years... but blah blah blah we all have problems.

Anyway, I have this problem with talking. Mostly around people (anyone) I'm not super close with. I've come to the conclusion that it's probably one of my biggest mental problems in limiting my relationships with other people. When I'm around other people, I feel very inhibited, to the point where I will barely say anything.. only what is essential or when asked a question directly.. and even then.. will usually only give the minimal amount needed. This occurs pretty much equally around complete strangers and people I 'trust". Really the only people I feel like I can "be myself" and just talk naturally around, are my REALLY close friends, of which I have like 2. But it really bothers me, because I feel like I am not giving of myself to people I care about, like I am holding back from them and doing them a disservice and the development of my relationships suffer due to my lack of expression. I feel like I probably come off to a lot of people as cold, when I'm not that way at all.

Now I know this isn't due to a lack of vocabulary.. as I can sit down pretty much any day of the week and write a freaking novel. Writing and talking... are two completely different worlds to me.

And I know for certain, that I am a pretty introverted and sensitive person by nature. But maybe this is just a natural effect of that and I am just over-analyzing it... that is possible.. I do tend to over-analyze things. But I feel there is a much deeper issue at work and this actually is a problem.

I have had trust issues in the past and haven't had the greatest relationship with my parents, been living by myself since I was 16 and haven't even seen most of my family for many years, so I'm sure that probably has something to do with it. I feel like perhaps my trust issues reflect on everyone which causes me to see everyone else as the potential enemy even when I KNOW they aren't.. if that makes any sense?

It doesn't make any sense really. It's really a pain in my ass. It could be deep-seated unresolved emotional issues. I've always been a very expressive person but somewhere along the way, I just shut myself off from everyone else and built a shell around myself that comes down from time to time, for very short periods of time.. until I rebuild that wall.. to "protect" myself, but in reality it's not protecting me at all it's actually causing more harm then good.

Anyway, that's probably long enough. I appreciate any insight or feedback anyone may be able to provide. I realize there's probably quite a few people that deal with similar issues so it would be good to get this stuff aired out.
I just want to freaking LET GO.

Peace


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InvisibleMOTH
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Re: Speech, linguistics.. and social anxiety? [Re: Shroomism]
    #8592035 - 07/03/08 03:43 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

Shroomism, I'm kinda the same way, just a little different.  The basic issue is the same.  When I first meet people, I sometimes have a VERY VERY hard time opening up and expressing the truth in my heart.  It takes me about a year or two of interaction with people before I feel okay enough to "be myself." 

The only thing that helps me is just to act foolish and blurt shit out, to help break down the wall.  I get anxiety worrying about "what other people will think" sometimes, and this makes me clam up, out of fear of judgement. 

But now I'm getting to the point where I just don't care.  LET THEM JUDGE ME.  As long as I am true to myself: that's what matters. 

Honestly dude, there's nothing wrong with being more of a Watcher in social situations.  You learn so much about people doing this. 

Sorry I wasn't much help; I'm curious to see what other responses will say, as I am ALL ABOUT breaking down the wall right now.

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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Speech, linguistics.. and social anxiety? [Re: MOTH]
    #8592073 - 07/03/08 03:56 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

Yeah that is a very good point. There isn't anything wrong with being the observer in social situations. I just feel like I am that way more than I would like. Back in the day, in high school and whatnot - I was the "crazy guy" always spouting off crazy shit and just generally making an ass out of myself - and many good times and amazing conversations came of it.

I need to get that point again, where I just don't care what people think. Where I can just blurt out whatever it is I am thinking, judgements be damned. I don't mind taking the observer role once in a while, but doing that ALL THE TIME, I am NOT being true to myself. The wall must come down!

As for you, you have a great bubbly personality that radiates a lovely presence, it's great to have you around :heart:


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Re: Speech, linguistics.. and social anxiety? [Re: Shroomism]
    #8593169 - 07/03/08 09:55 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

This is a constant topic for someone around here (look through related threads). I wonder why :lol:

I can relate to you as well.  You have to remember though that everybody has their faults - as perceived by someone, somewhere.  I doubt there are more than one or two people you have absolutely no problems with whatsoever, and it's destined to be just the same for everyone that knows you.

I've been trying to be more spontaneous and have found that as long as I'm good-spirited and well intentioned people are generally accepting of my thoughts.  Sometimes people enjoy what you have to say and sometimes they won't.  You usually have the chance to explain yourself though, in the case that you do create a misunderstanding.  And sometimes you'll just plain disagree with people who you care about in some way - and that sucks, but it's inevitable.

Blurt out your thoughts every once in a while.  I forget words, wreak havoc on whole thoughts, stumble and forget what I'm talking about regularly - but I do my best and I've increasingly been able to seamlessly translate thoughts into messages.  It's a wonderful feeling to be able to surprise yourself and you'll find yourself surprising others as well.

Take advantage of strangers and temporary encounters.  People can be different from place to place but hopefully you can open yourself to some strangers you encounter and use them as a means of practice.  Many peoples minds are probably as restless as yours and you might see that in opening yourself up to them, over something that is possibly so mundane, they will temporarily open up to you and you will be left with an experience that you can learn from and that will elate your mood.

You do care what others think, it's hard not to - and it is important to learn about yourself through the actions of others toward you.  But we're merely footnotes in the lives of many of people we know, so what you really have to not worry about is what YOU think of YOUrself.


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From dust you are made and to dust you shall return.

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Re: Speech, linguistics.. and social anxiety? [Re: Shroomism]
    #8593251 - 07/03/08 10:20 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

.

Edited by shaos (04/09/11 03:31 PM)

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OfflineToTheSummit
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Re: Speech, linguistics.. and social anxiety? [Re: Shroomism]
    #8593314 - 07/03/08 10:39 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

I was very shy and withdrawn as a child.  Through most of my school years I could be classified as a "wallflower".  Even today, at 40, I still find myself retreating into my 'comfort zone' at times and avoiding putting myself front-and-center in social settings.  When I see it happening I often try to thrust myself back into a conversation, sometimes with embarrassing results.  But as I've grown older I have also grown more comfortable in my own skin.  I don't much care what people think of me anymore and I pretty much just be myself, whether it is embarrassing or not.

But you, Shroomism, never seemed odd to me at all.  Quiet, yes.  But not in that weird "I wonder what that guys deal is" type of way (trust me, theres been a few of those types at gatherings).  You always seemed to me to be an integral part of the social circle when you were there.  And you were always keen to have a conversation if someone talked to you.  You just didn't seem to feel the need to be a driving force in a group conversation.  I guess what I'm saying is that I always thought you were A-OK and you've proven that you don't need to be outspoken to be an influential person.


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You invented the wheel....You push the motherfucker!!

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OfflineGrav
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Re: Speech, linguistics.. and social anxiety? [Re: ToTheSummit]
    #8594258 - 07/04/08 08:13 AM (15 years, 8 months ago)

I've had bouts with this many times.  It's help me to accept the fact that I am socially awkward, and embrace it, and now I love my own style around people in most situations.

However I am an absolutely horrible public speaker.  If I have to formally present something I am reduced to shambles...

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Offlinesunflower
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Re: Speech, linguistics.. and social anxiety? [Re: Grav]
    #8594423 - 07/04/08 10:12 AM (15 years, 8 months ago)

I teach, and I can stand up in front of 400 students and feel no fear.  Talking to a group of my peers is a totally different story.  I have done it, but until the first 5 minutes have passed my heart rate is probably up to about 200.  I dread it for weeks in advance.  Once I get into the swing of things though, I calm down and do fine. 

With "real people" not related to my job, I am drawn to talkers.  I am not a talker, but I do like to hear what others have to say.  I used to feel like there was something wrong with me because I wasn't carrying my share of the conversation, but now I realize, you don't have to talk just to talk. Usually the talker enjoys telling me whatever it is, and I enjoy hearing it and usually take something from it. 

So maybe you need to find some talkers to begin with...


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Anonymous #1

Re: Speech, linguistics.. and social anxiety? [Re: sunflower]
    #8596189 - 07/04/08 10:53 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

when I get smoke weed in social situations around alot of ppl I dont really know, I tend to get quiet and just observe.  So its better to get high around people who I already have things in common with, it makes it easier to identify with them and communicate verbally.

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InvisibleWhiskeyClone
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Re: Speech, linguistics.. and social anxiety? [Re: Shroomism]
    #8598234 - 07/05/08 06:33 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

I've had these same problems too Shroomism.  For me it was caused by anxiety about how I would be perceived for what I said.  The safe route was always to be quiet.  I've improved a lot, but I still have a long way to go.

There have been two things that have helped:

The first one was to not judge others on what they say.  Even though I didn't say much, I would always form opinions of the character of others based on what they say, and it was usually a negative one.  I guess this was my way of asserting my own acceptableness to myself, and it became a bad habit quickly.  The problem was that I was always worried that other people were judging what I said with the same level of scrutiny.  I was constantly concerned with what (I thought) people were thinking about me.  You don't strike me as a very judgmental person, but it may be worth looking at whether you form strong opinions about people's integrity or values based on what they say.  If you do, try to withhold judgment and see if you still feel self-conscious.

The other thing that helped was just practicing having conversations with people.  It's a skill like any other, and I just wasn't in the habit of initiating conversations.  I always counted on others to start the exchange.  Now I try to see if I can be the one to start a dialogue.  Usually the other person is more than willing to exchange a few words, and both come away feeling a little more appreciated.


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Welcome evermore to gods and men is the self-helping man.  For him all doors are flung wide: him all tongues greet, all honors crown, all eyes follow with desire.  Our love goes out to him and embraces him, because he did not need it.

~ R.W. Emerson, "Self-Reliance"

:heartpump:

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Offlinefawhit
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Re: Speech, linguistics.. and social anxiety? [Re: WhiskeyClone]
    #8602957 - 07/07/08 01:41 AM (15 years, 8 months ago)

I am just perplexed with how I am so familiar with your situation as it reminds me of my own. I have this same problem that many of you are explaining. Constantly thinking of how others think of me, having trouble initiating social conversations, relying on others to begin. I have only 2 close friends as well, it is incredibly eerie how we can all be in such similar situations so far apart from each other. Maybe there is a common link between all of us that triggered this behavior in us. I know that I have never got along with my father, because we both spoke different languages and it feels like I have absolutely know connection with him. I fear that when he dies I wont even be able to cry for him because I won't care. Maybe it's the drugs? I dono what it is but the their are just too many similarities between are situations that I could record symptoms for the illness we are suffering from. This must be some kind of mental illness, this can't be normal. How will we fix it guys? We need to find out, if you guys in a similar situation that I am than you know how much this is stopping us from doing what we want to do...


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InvisiblePenguarky Tunguin
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Re: Speech, linguistics.. and social anxiety? [Re: Shroomism]
    #8603301 - 07/07/08 07:20 AM (15 years, 8 months ago)

Stop caring about what others think.  It really is that simple.  Once you do that, it doesn't matter what you say or how you say it.

I use to despise talking to people if the conversation wasn't important or deep, but then I realized that life is in the small things.  Talking to a complete stranger on lightrail IS what life is about.

You may miss getting to know the best person you'd ever meet, but you'd never know it if you're too shy because you're afraid of what people think.  Seriously, who gives a FUCK what a person thinks of you?  Especially if they don't know you at all?  The only people that you should care how or what they think of you is the two closest friends you mentioned.

Bahhh, caring about what people think is for the birds!  :crankey:


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Every mistake, intentional or otherwise, in the above post, is the fault of the reader.

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Offlinefawhit
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Re: Speech, linguistics.. and social anxiety? [Re: Penguarky Tunguin]
    #8604106 - 07/07/08 12:53 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Penguarky Tunguin said:
Stop caring about what others think.  It really is that simple.  Once you do that, it doesn't matter what you say or how you say it.

I use to despise talking to people if the conversation wasn't important or deep, but then I realized that life is in the small things.  Talking to a complete stranger on lightrail IS what life is about.

You may miss getting to know the best person you'd ever meet, but you'd never know it if you're too shy because you're afraid of what people think.  Seriously, who gives a FUCK what a person thinks of you?  Especially if they don't know you at all?  The only people that you should care how or what they think of you is the two closest friends you mentioned.

Bahhh, caring about what people think is for the birds!  :crankey:




I think a lot of people care about what other people think, especially teenagers. Now I just finished high school so I know what its all about. Everyone wants to be cool, everyone wants to be popular and have a good reputation. In high school, everyone is incredibly self absorbed, they hang out with a group of people they don't even like just so other people will think that they are cool. They smoke ciggs just so they are cool with the other people who smoke ciggs. And the same with marijuana and alcohol. I truly hope adulthood will be much different because I can't stand teenage life and this struggle to be cool.

Now when I teenager goes out to a party or something else like that they will most definitely spend some time looking in the mirror to try and look as best as they can and cool. That is because they want to make absolutely sure that noone will make a comment about what their wearing and so they can remain cool with the group. Teenage life really sucks...


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InvisibleWhiskeyClone
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Re: Speech, linguistics.. and social anxiety? [Re: Penguarky Tunguin]
    #8604124 - 07/07/08 01:01 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Penguarky Tunguin said:
I use to despise talking to people if the conversation wasn't important or deep, but then I realized that life is in the small things.  Talking to a complete stranger on lightrail IS what life is about.





:rockon:

Yes!


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Welcome evermore to gods and men is the self-helping man.  For him all doors are flung wide: him all tongues greet, all honors crown, all eyes follow with desire.  Our love goes out to him and embraces him, because he did not need it.

~ R.W. Emerson, "Self-Reliance"

:heartpump:

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Re: Speech, linguistics.. and social anxiety? [Re: WhiskeyClone]
    #8604546 - 07/07/08 03:25 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

Shroomism it sounds like you've dug yourself into a hole by repeating behaviors that keep you isolated from others (at least in a linguistic sense). What you do now is whats natural because you practice it so habitually that anything else seems awkward and foreign. My advice is that you pull yourself out of the situation youre in by constant practicing what feels awkward and foreign.

Like you said, you feel that you cannot talk naturally and be yourself around others. So put yourself in that situation, a lot. overwhelm yourself with it. its akin to the flooding technique used on people who dont go outside, ever, or people with ocd. the more you force yourself to open up to other people, the easier it will become, until eventually, acting that way is your primary behavioral scheme rather than becoming extrememly introverted in such situations.

You need to have tools to fall back on when doing this. I would recommend you pick up a book or two on conversation, or enroll in a speech or interpersonal communication class, then stay after class and force yourself to talk to others.

As far as advice on how to do this I would say, you need to start looking at everyone as part of this basic group, one that we all share. Look at everyone as human beings, yourself, your closest friends, and everyone else as well. And I mean visualize it. talk to everyone as a human being, as someone has a need like you to relate to others and wants to, and is willing to listen to whatever you have to say to understand and relate to you. in the end nobody is really different from one another, were all just bags of fucking meat that can think. tell yourself there is absolutely no reason why I should not be able to relate to this other bag of meat, i should be able to tell him.her anything.

also, try talking to people like you talk to yourself. once again this is something you have to remind yourself of while youre doing it. how do you talk to yourself? do you filter that stuff? how you talk to yourself is probably as honest as anyone can possibly get, and thats what we strive for as human beings, is to have honest relationships with other people.

Furthermore, you probably have to put down these ideas of how people are going to judge your behaviors, or look at you, or perceive you as. It doesnt fucking matter. not one bit..

anytime youre worried about what someone else is thinking or might think, stop the thought right there, and tell yourself, this is a useless bullshit thought. drop it, and in fact do the opposite, if you experience a feeling like that, act to the contrary, see for yourself just how wrong that initial feeling was when the person relates to what you say or do, rather than judge it the way you initially anticipated. drop your worries about what other people will think. just do... there is nothing that bad that can occur from anything you can possibly say, even the worst shit. youre a human being and you deserve the right to express yourself, so take control of your mind, dont let its random throughts control you.




btw - please read my girl posting in the pub and give your input, I would like to hear it. Thanks

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Re: Speech, linguistics.. and social anxiety? [Re: ManianFH]
    #8632035 - 07/14/08 12:25 AM (15 years, 8 months ago)

i was like that until i was about 20.  in groups i never talked.

i don't really know how the change occurred. i guess i started doing drugs and not being able to control saying weird shit to people, which reduced my fear of being able to say normal shit.

then i just studied what everyone talked about, and how they said things and mimicked it till it felt natural.


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OfflineAlphaFalfa
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Re: Speech, linguistics.. and social anxiety? [Re: truekimbo2]
    #8639172 - 07/15/08 06:12 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

Your fear about displeasing others comes from giving your heart to people. Stop, literally, keep your heart where it is, because you know your life best, you know where you ought to go, how you ought to feel best...dont you?


So keep your heart, do not give it to anyone no matter if they give you theirs, keep it all and when you are ready give it to life!!!!


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if you ever feel lost, just remember, life is not a journey, it is entertainment, all 4 fun...


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Re: Speech, linguistics.. and social anxiety? [Re: ToTheSummit]
    #8640534 - 07/15/08 11:48 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

ToTheSummit said:
I was very shy and withdrawn as a child.  Through most of my school years I could be classified as a "wallflower".  Even today, at 40, I still find myself retreating into my 'comfort zone' at times and avoiding putting myself front-and-center in social settings.  When I see it happening I often try to thrust myself back into a conversation, sometimes with embarrassing results.  But as I've grown older I have also grown more comfortable in my own skin.  I don't much care what people think of me anymore and I pretty much just be myself, whether it is embarrassing or not.

But you, Shroomism, never seemed odd to me at all.  Quiet, yes.  But not in that weird "I wonder what that guys deal is" type of way (trust me, theres been a few of those types at gatherings).  You always seemed to me to be an integral part of the social circle when you were there.  And you were always keen to have a conversation if someone talked to you.  You just didn't seem to feel the need to be a driving force in a group conversation.  I guess what I'm saying is that I always thought you were A-OK and you've proven that you don't need to be outspoken to be an influential person.




The above post is usually how I'm perceived, which is alright, but that last part I've heard plenty of times and kind of despise it.......not to be harsh, it's just a silly game to try and make people feel comfortable with things they wish to change. Sure, I make contributions to conversations and I have really damn good ones, but I also don't seem to be able to befriend people like my friends who are outspoken can do. Observing is nice...but not observing things like that - in fact I think my skillful observations have driven me into the ground more than anything.

From my experiences, not initiating conversations = boring, not saying absurd shit = boring, stumbling in conversation = weird, etc.,etc...I've only met a handful of people who accept these eccentricities and usually I only have 1 or 2 of these people near me at one time in my life. How do people like us enjoy ourselves with 1 or 2 people when nearly everyone else is talking their asses off having fun socializing (entertaining each other) and not being gawked at for being "weird", especially when the 1 or 2 move through social situations with just as much ease as the rest!

From what I've figured out though is that small conversations can make a huge difference, as the other poster mentioned. I lightly chatted with the lady who cut my hair today, saying some things that I was even surprised to say, which made her laugh - nice! but I had to work for it. I always thought "bull-shitting" was soooo dumb...but as one of my current outspoken friends said about "bull-shitting" - It shows people you care and I think that's a large part of it. One of my other friends also said that socializing is basically just a for people to entertain each other...i mean, why not? When I am in a social mood and am actually talking with comfort, it *is* fun!

As a disclaimer, though, I have to say some people's "bull-shitting" is actually just shitting out their mouths, honestly, so be discriminate.

Secondly I have used the template of drunkiness to try and overcome my social anxieties as much as I can. When I'm drunk I am outgoing, even at a level of a buzz. What I've distilled down from this is that I get energetic when I'm drunk, which speeds up my thought process and ability to make associations and it also makes me more confident. Right now I'm trying to find as many ways as possible to increase the amount of energy I have on a daily basis. Coffee has a similar effect - energy = confidence, quick thought processes, etc. I've really been thinking hard lately that the key, at least for me, is a high energy level.

Good luck and keep working, slowly at first...you will notice small differences, but keep going :smile:

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