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OfflineSneezingPenis
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the absurdity of child pornography laws.
    #8535313 - 06/17/08 09:38 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)



what makes me laugh is that this picture raises no suspicions.. why?

do we believe that there is no one sick enough out there to be sexually aroused by this? im willing to bet someone out there is.
so once they hit 3 years old? no more naked pictures? what is the age?
3-18 and you cant take any naked pictures.
you cant even draw pictures that depict naked children.

im not defending the pederast, but how retarded is it?
if we are going to make and enforce these fucked up rules, then why not just go all the way to "protect the children".
3-18, you cant wear revealing clothing, or do anything to your appearance which may be construed as sexually appealing.
how much sense would that make?

this is how america deals with problems... we only look at it head on.
its like you walk home on a gravel road from school every day and bullys keep throwing rocks at you, so you start wearing thicker clothes which make you hot and bringing garbage can lids rather than just find another route home that isnt lined with rocks.

I cant imagine that many children are molested by complete strangers... so what are we trying to prevent?

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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Re: the absurdity of child pornography laws. [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #8535334 - 06/17/08 09:42 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

YawningAnus said:

3-18 and you cant take any naked pictures.
you cant even draw pictures that depict naked children.




I don't believe either of these statements are true.

However, I think it is fairly reasonable for parents to receive assistance from the law in preventing their children from being sexually targeted by adults. Can you think of a simpler, more effective alternative to laws against statutory rape and child pornography?


--------------------
Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.


Edited by Tchan909 (06/17/08 09:42 PM)

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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: the absurdity of child pornography laws. [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #8535366 - 06/17/08 09:49 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

what percentage of child molestations occur by complete strangers?
I would venture to guess that more than 90% of it occurs from relatives or babysitters.

how is your child affected by someone thousands of miles away beating off to pictures of naked 8 year old?

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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Re: the absurdity of child pornography laws. [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #8535400 - 06/17/08 10:02 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

YawningAnus said:
what percentage of child molestations occur by complete strangers?
I would venture to guess that more than 90% of it occurs from relatives or babysitters.




I don't know any actual statistics on the matter, but it seems a superficial distinction, when both of these scenarios are well outside what most parents are comfortable with for their children.

Quote:

how is your child affected by someone thousands of miles away beating off to pictures of naked 8 year old?




More importantly: how is your child not affected by having naked pictures taken of him or her?


--------------------
Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.


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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: the absurdity of child pornography laws. [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #8535433 - 06/17/08 10:12 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

well, tomorrow I will bring you some statistics.

im sure I can find some stories of divorced parents using harmless pictures that their spouses took as proof of child abuse.
or percentages of molestations within the family.

A picture is merely a picture. what they are trying to do is outlaw a thought, an idea, a fantasy. which is impossible.

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InvisibleCameron
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Re: the absurdity of child pornography laws. [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #8535836 - 06/18/08 12:34 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

A picture is merely a picture. what they are trying to do is outlaw a thought, an idea, a fantasy. which is impossible.




I think in many cases it is the fact that these people are often involved in a ring of child pornography that would not exist without the demand of these 'harmless guys beating off thousands of miles away'. You hear about these groups being busted all the time on the evening news. Without the demand, a large percentage of victims would go unharmed.

I don't know if I agree with imprisoning a guy who can't resist a picture of a scantily clad, bruised child, but I would definitely advocate for some serious therapy action. If it were his own kid, I would imagine that the parent require a separation from the child until he was deemed fit to continue caring for him or her. More precautions, like bi-weekly check-ups and advice from schoolteachers, etc, would also be helpful. Jacking it to kiddie porn is definitely not healthy in any respect, and it would have to be corrected by any means necessary IMO.

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Invisibleblewmeanie
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Re: the absurdity of child pornography laws. [Re: Cameron]
    #8536397 - 06/18/08 07:41 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Cameron said:
Quote:

A picture is merely a picture. what they are trying to do is outlaw a thought, an idea, a fantasy. which is impossible.




I think in many cases it is the fact that these people are often involved in a ring of child pornography that would not exist without the demand of these 'harmless guys beating off thousands of miles away'. You hear about these groups being busted all the time on the evening news. Without the demand, a large percentage of victims would go unharmed.

I don't know if I agree with imprisoning a guy who can't resist a picture of a scantily clad, bruised child, but I would definitely advocate for some serious therapy action. If it were his own kid, I would imagine that the parent require a separation from the child until he was deemed fit to continue caring for him or her. More precautions, like bi-weekly check-ups and advice from schoolteachers, etc, would also be helpful. Jacking it to kiddie porn is definitely not healthy in any respect, and it would have to be corrected by any means necessary IMO.




Ive always assumed that the guys "beating off thousands of miles away" are the same ones producing child porn. I mean its not like there is some secret group of child porn merchants who aren't into this, but do it for the money.


--------------------
The Prophecy!

Learn To Code

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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: the absurdity of child pornography laws. [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #8536847 - 06/18/08 11:22 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

How is this related to P&S?


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Invisibleblewmeanie
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Re: the absurdity of child pornography laws. [Re: Diploid]
    #8537027 - 06/18/08 12:27 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

I think he was referring to the ridiculous backwards logic behind "child porn" laws.....thats kind of P&S.......ah maybe not.


--------------------
The Prophecy!

Learn To Code

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InvisibleCameron
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Re: the absurdity of child pornography laws. [Re: blewmeanie]
    #8537032 - 06/18/08 12:29 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

blewmeanie said:
Ive always assumed that the guys "beating off thousands of miles away" are the same ones producing child porn. I mean its not like there is some secret group of child porn merchants who aren't into this, but do it for the money.




Well, most studies seem to credit child pornography as a 2-3 billion dollar a year industry. That's including prostitution, so websites probably account for less than a billion, but there is still a *lot* of money being made because there is still plenty of demand from the 35-49 year old crowd. And yeah, I would imagine they'd have to have to be secretive about their work, given the content.

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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: the absurdity of child pornography laws. [Re: Cameron]
    #8537099 - 06/18/08 12:58 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

there is still plenty of demand from the 35-49 year old crowd




Now that I am 50, I only subscribe to MILF websites.


--------------------

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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: the absurdity of child pornography laws. [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8537603 - 06/18/08 04:03 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Adults were the offender in 60% of the sexual assaults of youth under age 12. Rarely were the offenders of young victims strangers. Strangers were the offender in just 3% of sexual assaults against victims under age 6 and 5% of the sexual assault of victimizations of youth ages 6 through 11.
-Sexual Assault of Young Children as Reported to Law Enforcement,
7/00, NCJ 182990, U.S. Department of Jus
Acquaintance perpetrators are the most common abusers, constituting approximately 70-90% of all reported perpetrators.
-Finkelhor, D. 1994.

• 89% of child sexual assault cases involve persons known to the child, such as a caretaker or family acquaintance.
-Diana Russell Survey, 1978

• 29% of child sexual abuse offenders are relatives, 60% are acquaintances, and only 11% are strangers.
-Diana Russell, The Secret Trauma, NY:Basic Books, 1986.

• For the vast majority of child victimizers in State prison, the victim was someone they knew before the crime. 1/3 had committed their crime against their own child, about 1/2 had a relationship with the victim as a friend, acquaintance, or relative other than offspring, about 1 in 7 reported the victim to have been a stranger to them.
-BJS Survey of State Prison Inmates, 1991




my whole point and reason for posting this in this forum was to point out that we have created a greater "problem" by creating these laws.
we arent looking for a solution, but rather a half hearted deterrence.
we want to call someone that finds 17 year olds attractive a sexual deviant/mentaly ill... and taking the lead of psychiatry, we try to attack an idea or a way of life through absolutely retarded ways.

Quote:

More than 1/2 of all convicted sex offenders are sent back to prison within a year. Within 2 years, 77.9% are back.
-California Department of Corrections.




recidivism is rampant, which means that what we are doing really isnt working.
and I was correct about the images...

Quote:

Prohibits computer-generated child pornography when "(B) such visual depiction is a computer image or computer-generated image that is, or appears virtually indistinguishable from that of a minor engaging in sexually explicit conduct; (as amended by 1466A for Section 2256(8)(B) of title 18, United States Code).
Prohibits drawings, sculptures, and pictures of such drawings and sculptures depicting minors in actions or situations that meet the Miller test of being obscene, OR are engaged in sex acts that are deemed to meet the same obscene condition. The law does not state that images of fictional beings who appear to be under 18 engaged in sexual acts that are not deemed to be obscene are rendered illegal in and of their own condition (illustration of sex of fictional minors).




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PROTECT_Act_of_2003

in fact, it goes as far to say that even if you have a picture or video of porn where the girls are actually 22, and you claim it to be child pornography, it is still the same thing as actually having child pronography.

do you see what I mean about trying to exterminate an idea? it is impossible. yet we believe that with enough force and punishment we can deter these people that we label as menatlly ill.
so what we have done is create a deep, black market. I wouldnt be surprised to find couples that secretly have children only to make them into child porn "stars". we have created a much pricier demand for the product.

this is what happens when you let psychiatrists dictate what is normal and sane, and what isnt. im not saying that pedophilia is right or wrong here, but we try to look at everything from a black and white/sane or insane POV.
"oh this 13 year old was molested, what a horrifying experience for her"... maybe it was, but maybe it wasnt. we jump to the conclusion that there was no possible good that came from that. a life experience? maybe they enjoyed it? are we compounding the guilt by reacting so violently to it?


We are really only one burka away from being the most prude nation in the world. we are trying to pound out natural animalistic behaviour with guilt and consequences.
i have been with a lot of women that have been molested and it seems to me that the thing that fucks with their head the most is the personal guilt or dirtiness that has been pounded into their thoughts.
Im sure I will get shit for this, but Im just relating my personal experiences: girls that got molested or raped as a child, end up really enjoying that sexual act.
if they got forcefully raped, they enjoy simulated rape/complete submission... if they got fondled by a dirty uncle, they like getting fondled.

I think it is because it was the first sexual encoutner they had, and it shaped their view of sex and how it should be. they stress and think about it constantly and go through a myriad of emotions about it.

when a child is molested, they are more confused than anything, because it is something that hasnt ever been a part of their world. just like when a toddler falls down, it looks around before making a reaction. if the parent is laughing, it laughs, if the parent has a shocked look on their face, it cries.
we are creating this problem. Im not saying we are the sole problem, but what we are doing is only compounding the issue, not solving anything.

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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: the absurdity of child pornography laws. [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #8537616 - 06/18/08 04:06 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

You're still arguing about a legal issue, and not a philosophical topic.  Where is the philosophical question/topic?  An argument regarding the social issues created by laws belongs in the Political forum, IMO.

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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: the absurdity of child pornography laws. [Re: Veritas]
    #8537927 - 06/18/08 05:25 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

I posted the PROTECT act because someone on here disputed the fact that you cannot even draw pictures depicting child pornography.

im not really wanting to discuss the laws, but they are a reflection of the moral majority agreements of our society and thusly reflect our thought process through the problem->solution->conclusion.

I dont think philosophy in the sense of the forum heading applies merely to "the art of asking why", but encompasses personal philosophy which can entail your approach/view of the world and society.
I think I have written enough threads regarding psychiatry to solidify a personal philosophy regarding american society and its reason for existing a certain way.
now maybe that is more in the sociology realm, but I like to treat P&S as the umbrella that covers the ambiguous/vague thread topics.

but back on topic, I guess a perfect summation of my point is:
we try to define what is deviance, punish that deviance, punish those that do anything more than merely think about that deviance, then wonder why there is no improvement.
we believe that because we all openly agree that 11 year olds shouldnt be molested, that it is obviously unnatural/deviant behaviour and should be punished with the same severity that we openly abhor it.
this is what americans do en masse when a taboo is crossed. we shake fists in the sky and tell people that they dont know what is best for them.... you were brainwashed! taken advantage of! one day you will understand!.
look at the polygamy "cult" that was in the news recently. the children werent harmed, but we raided their home, took them from a loving, safe environment and placed them in the care of pill pushing social workers.

this is how we solve problems: a gasp of shock and awe + self-righteous rhetoric + a dash of fascist strong arming/litigation.

is that philosophical enough for you?

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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: the absurdity of child pornography laws. [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #8538048 - 06/18/08 05:59 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

It still sounds like you are "critiquing legislation," which is the domain of the Political Discussion Forum.  :shrug:

Whatever, I'll leave it up to the mods to decide.

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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: the absurdity of child pornography laws. [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #8538216 - 06/18/08 07:10 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: the absurdity of child pornography laws. [Re: Veritas]
    #8538278 - 06/18/08 07:33 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Whatever, I'll leave it up to the mods to decide.




Thanks mom. :grin:


--------------------

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OfflineBoots
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Re: the absurdity of child pornography laws. [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8538676 - 06/18/08 09:34 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Until I get interested in child pornography, I could give a fuck about the laws regarding it, lol.

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Invisibleblewmeanie
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Re: the absurdity of child pornography laws. [Re: Boots]
    #8539990 - 06/19/08 07:54 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Boots said:
Until I get interested in child pornography, I could give a fuck about the laws regarding it, lol.



And its that kind of philosophy on life that allows our freedoms to be slowly eroded away day by day.


--------------------
The Prophecy!

Learn To Code

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Invisiblethedudenj
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Re: the absurdity of child pornography laws. [Re: blewmeanie]
    #8540069 - 06/19/08 08:28 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

a 20 yearold girl sent me this that i met thru a shroomery member

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="
&hl=en"></param><embed src="
&hl=en" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>


--------------------

"You all are just  puppets... You have no heart...and cannot feel any pain...""
you may think thats pain you feel but you must have a heart to feel true pain and that pain wont be yours

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