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PopACapInHisAss
Stranger
Registered: 01/29/08
Posts: 79
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Tyvek "Bubbling Up" After PC'ing?
#8393983 - 05/12/08 07:21 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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I made some jar lids with 2-layer tyvek air ports.
They layers are separated by space, cover holes 3/4 inch in diameter, and are completely sealed around the perimeter by silicone.
After PC'ing, the tyvek disks had "bubbled" up in the center on most but not all jars.
The jars still seem to maintain sterile integrity but I don't think they will be reusable.
Any ideas why this happened? Temperature differential and escaping steam from a jar too air tight?
Back to the drawing board for my lid design...Maybe I'll just save up 4 some syringe filters.
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spock1
Stranger
Registered: 04/14/07
Posts: 589
Last seen: 15 years, 9 months
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Re: Tyvek "Bubbling Up" After PC'ing? *DELETED* [Re: PopACapInHisAss]
#8394007 - 05/12/08 07:25 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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Post deleted by spock1Reason for deletion: .
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grymmtymm
lostinthought
Registered: 03/29/08
Posts: 1,137
Loc: inside your head
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i think it's might be cause you put the lids on too tight? i use tyvek exclusively, just one layer beneath reusable plastic lids and i always tighten my lids down, the tyvek always sucks downward into the jar...
-------------------- If you always do what you always did you always get what you always got.
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spock1
Stranger
Registered: 04/14/07
Posts: 589
Last seen: 15 years, 9 months
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Re: Tyvek "Bubbling Up" After PC'ing? *DELETED* [Re: grymmtymm]
#8394167 - 05/12/08 08:01 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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Post deleted by spock1Reason for deletion: .
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P.Menace
Contradicting the Status Quo
Registered: 11/17/07
Posts: 4,797
Loc: Let Me See Potato Salad!!...
Last seen: 10 years, 18 days
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Re: Tyvek "Bubbling Up" After PC'ing? [Re: spock1]
#8394632 - 05/12/08 09:46 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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he said save up for whatman filters
-------------------- http://www.sporeworksgallery.com/Cubensae/Psilocybe_cubensis_Menace roby000 said: thats true a shotgun is almost like a college degree in a sense that if you show it to the right person at the right time you could make a lot of money.
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tahoe
Noob Slayer
Registered: 11/26/03
Posts: 6,274
Loc: N38.93829W119.98108
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Re: Tyvek "Bubbling Up" After PC'ing? [Re: P.Menace]
#8395858 - 05/13/08 09:12 AM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
P.Menace said: he said save up for whatman filters
I was going to send a bunch of spawn out to someone and all I ask was for 15$ to cover the 10$ postage and I guess 5$ time, labor, material, know how, lunch, gas....... The guy said that he had to save it up. I could pull that out from under neath my floor mats in my car.
-------------------- Stop experimenting half way through your first grow. Grow it to maturity, watch it, learn from it. Do this a few times then experiment with different ideas and figure out what works best for you. My Legacy https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/22140987#22140987 Teh=The I need to proofread
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PopACapInHisAss
Stranger
Registered: 01/29/08
Posts: 79
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Re: Tyvek "Bubbling Up" After PC'ing? [Re: spock1]
#8396126 - 05/13/08 10:30 AM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
spock1 said: take a picture
Yeah well, my Canon 30D is in hock at the moment.
It looks very much like a water blister like a person might get from hard work or a lot of walking. It is perfectly flat around the edges, then it is raised to form a somewhat flat bubble, like a convex blister shape. The bottom is the reverse of that, a concave cavity raised up from the flat tyvek surface.
Again, none of my jars contaminated but the tyvek integrity is obviously compromised to some degree.
P.Menace and tahoe, I congratulate you on your good financial fortune.
Personally, I am financing a legal battle and scraping every penny I can to float a business to turn my situation around.
And yes, for me right now, a lot of 150 syringe filters are very expensive.
Everyone is susceptible to a little bad luck in life. If you aren't, then please spill a little good fortune my way. I'll be happy to PM you my business mailing address ;o)
It is OK though, my court case is poised to set a famous precedent and it should help the book I'm writing fly off the shelf!!!
Besides, if everyone was so well off, why would anyone bother with homemade solutions when tools such as syringe filters are so readily available.
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Brainiac
Rogue Scientist
Registered: 04/29/06
Posts: 13,259
Loc: 與您的女朋
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Look on Ebay, you can buy them for 2.00 each...
-------------------- Fair is Fair
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P.Menace
Contradicting the Status Quo
Registered: 11/17/07
Posts: 4,797
Loc: Let Me See Potato Salad!!...
Last seen: 10 years, 18 days
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Re: Tyvek "Bubbling Up" After PC'ing? [Re: Brainiac]
#8396581 - 05/13/08 12:42 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Brainiac said: 2.00 each...
-------------------- http://www.sporeworksgallery.com/Cubensae/Psilocybe_cubensis_Menace roby000 said: thats true a shotgun is almost like a college degree in a sense that if you show it to the right person at the right time you could make a lot of money.
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PopACapInHisAss
Stranger
Registered: 01/29/08
Posts: 79
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Quote:
PopACapInHisAss said:
Quote:
spock1 said: take a picture
It looks very much like a water blister like a person might get from hard work or a lot of walking. It is perfectly flat around the edges, then it is raised to form a somewhat flat bubble, like a convex blister shape. The bottom is the reverse of that, a concave cavity raised up from the flat tyvek surface.
Again, none of my jars contaminated but the tyvek integrity is obviously compromised to some degree.
Maybe I raised the PC temp too quickly. I use a fairly ferocious propane burner. It takes about 35 minutes +/- to get to 15 PSI. Is this about normal?
Anyway, I will think about the Ebay syringe filters but, I *want* a lot of 150! I like buying in bulk to save money. I also want to put more than one filter per jar, use them for both culture and spawn jars, etc, etc... I want a lot of them. Assuming my design isn't resuable because of the bubbles, I just went through 42 painstakingly home made lids!
Granted, not one contaminated.
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billyboy36
Stranger
Registered: 05/04/08
Posts: 352
Loc: Canada
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what makes you think they aren't reusable? are they "stretched" or something? try not tightening your lids; back them off a 1/4 turn and re-tighten immediately upon opening the pc.
I would guess that if you tighten them, you are forcing steam in through the lid tyvek at a rate faster than the micron holes allow and that slightly stretches it out and then when the pressure equalizes, the stretched area reverses and gives the impression of a bubble the other way. just a guess though
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PopACapInHisAss
Stranger
Registered: 01/29/08
Posts: 79
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Re: Tyvek "Bubbling Up" After PC'ing? [Re: billyboy36]
#8407736 - 05/15/08 11:26 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
billyboy36 said: what makes you think they aren't reusable? are they "stretched" or something? try not tightening your lids; back them off a 1/4 turn and re-tighten immediately upon opening the pc.
I would guess that if you tighten them, you are forcing steam in through the lid tyvek at a rate faster than the micron holes allow and that slightly stretches it out and then when the pressure equalizes, the stretched area reverses and gives the impression of a bubble the other way. just a guess though
Yeah, the tyvek is deformed now. It was perfectly flat and held so by a significant layered ring of silicone. To bubble, it had to stretch and deform to make a flat raised bubble shape about 1/8-3/16" high.
I don't want to reuse them because I don't want to trust the integrity of the deformed tyvek.
Yeah, I think steam forcing through could have been the culprit. That is why I asked about the lid tightness or if I was heating the PC up too quickly.
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PopACapInHisAss
Stranger
Registered: 01/29/08
Posts: 79
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Yeah, plain old fish aquarium silicone from Walmart and/or Home Depot. HD carries DAP brand, I forget what WM carries.
As I understand it, the aquarium silicone is not supposed to contain toxic curing agents. It also dries quickly, is inexpensive, cures very tough, is rated to 400F, and acts as an adhesive, gap filler, and sealant.
Why not silicone? RTV is just a form of silicone, although I guess it doesn't have to be. Stands for Room Temperature Vulcanization.
I drilled an air hole, put a ring of silicone around it, suspended a round piece of tyvek in on top of the ring, let it dry, then put a nice thick raised ring all the way around it overlapping the top edge again to be certain it was sealed and secure. Then I did the same on the reverse side to make two layers of tyvek separated by a small air space.
I was hoping that if the tyvek layers were separated, moisture from the bottom one might not be able to soak through to the top and feed contams.
I don't know if my separated layers design has any merit, but not a single jar contam'ed even thought the tyvek on most of them was deformed from PC'ing. However, I did shake them a lot and there was mycelium growing on the bottom surface of most of the lids. Apparently nothing nutritious made it through my layers of tyvek.
My innoc. ports were made the same way except there is also silicone between the pieces of tyvek and coating both exposed surfaces as well.
Edited by PopACapInHisAss (05/16/08 06:21 PM)
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spock1
Stranger
Registered: 04/14/07
Posts: 589
Last seen: 15 years, 9 months
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Re: Tyvek "Bubbling Up" After PC'ing? *DELETED* [Re: PopACapInHisAss]
#8410821 - 05/16/08 08:14 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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Post deleted by spock1Reason for deletion: .
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PopACapInHisAss
Stranger
Registered: 01/29/08
Posts: 79
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Re: Tyvek "Bubbling Up" After PC'ing? [Re: spock1]
#8412495 - 05/17/08 11:19 AM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
spock1 said: You don't need tyvek on the inoculation port, if it is just covered with silicone anyway. Just use a big blob of silicone. I've heard it can be reused over 10 times.
I'd guess that your design is the reason for the bubbling tyvek, but I don't know why. I've never had tyvek bubble. Maybe the 2 layers cause a high pressure difference. Which layer bubbled or did both?
Yeah, I just put the tyvek in the innoc. port for some strength across such a big gap. I drilled some of the holes as large as 7/8" with the idea that I could maybe reuse it more times without risk of structural or other integrity issues.
On all the ones that bubbled, both layers bubbled in the same way as if steam was the culprit.
The basics of the design work. Maybe I'll run some of the ones that didn't bubble back through the PC with the lids loosened more to see what happens.
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