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Invisibleshroomnub01
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Can spores get out of a filter patch bag?
    #8361923 - 05/04/08 04:47 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

My Signature Substrate Bag unfortunately got a trich infection.

I was wondering if letting the bag continue to grow, just to see how it turns out, will risk contaminating my whole house with trich spores?

I would assume the filter patches are designed to keep airborne spores out (or in), otherwise it wouldnt be much protection to the internal sterile environment...however I see posts where people will infected jars are told to toss the jars ASAP before it spreads to their other sealed jars...

Any insight?

Photos of the contam here: http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/8360357/an/0/page/0

Edited by shroomnub01 (05/04/08 06:57 PM)

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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Can spores get out of a filter patch bag? [Re: shroomnub01]
    #8361969 - 05/04/08 04:57 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Filter patches are not perfect. I've often had a single colonizing bag or jar that got trich, and if not noticed in time, it spreads to other nearby jars and/or bags. The filters will stop 99.9% or more of the spores, but .1% of a few billion is a lot of spores that still escape or find their way into another container.

I'd toss it right now. It won't recover unless you bury it into a manure or coir bed outdoors.
RR


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semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat

"I've never had a failed experiment.  I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
Thomas Edison

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Invisibleshroomnub01
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Re: Can spores get out of a filter patch bag? [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #8362399 - 05/04/08 06:56 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Ah okay. Sad to hear. I already knew the bag was a goner, but I was atleast hoping to watch it fruit (while sealed) so I could have a visual comparison for my next attempt, however it's not worth risking all future attempts.

Thanks RR.

Btw RR would you mind looking at my post in the contam forum and tell me if the mycelium was looking good otherwise as a point of reference?

Thanks

Edited by shroomnub01 (05/04/08 07:05 PM)

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OfflineGrowBuddy
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Registered: 02/29/08
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Re: Can spores get out of a filter patch bag? [Re: shroomnub01]
    #8362466 - 05/04/08 07:12 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Theoretically this is possible, probable? No


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OfflineHeadFood
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Re: Can spores get out of a filter patch bag? [Re: GrowBuddy]
    #8362542 - 05/04/08 07:32 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Can anyone answer HOW burying contams outdoors saves it but nothing else? I heard that from MANY people but never any explanation on how.


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Phi Alpha

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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Can spores get out of a filter patch bag? [Re: HeadFood]
    #8362744 - 05/04/08 08:17 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

By returning the mycelium to nature, natural controls can take over. All mushrooms exist in conjunction with molds and bacteria in the wild. We only practice sterile technique to help us grow indoors. Outdoors, nothing is sterile.
RR


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semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat

"I've never had a failed experiment.  I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
Thomas Edison

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OfflineHeadFood
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Re: Can spores get out of a filter patch bag? [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #8362805 - 05/04/08 08:26 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

ok that's understandable, but then how come it's bad when it's sterile? Does it have to do with other molds/bacteria/other nature shit that all counter-acts or what? Sorry for the question, just trying to get a better understanding of everything so I can help out other people when they ask too.


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Phi Alpha

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InvisibleBrainiac
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Re: Can spores get out of a filter patch bag? [Re: HeadFood]
    #8362842 - 05/04/08 08:36 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Because, when you sterilize. You kill every thing good and bad.. Theres good bacteria that help it out..


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InvisibleSmushroom
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Re: Can spores get out of a filter patch bag? [Re: Brainiac]
    #8363751 - 05/05/08 12:44 AM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Never been able to beat off trich but I have had jars overtake Penicillium and wet spot before. Trich seems to be a lot more aggressive once it starts to sporulate.

And like Braniac said, sterilizing kills off beneficial bacteria that would help build up an immunity/tolerance to the destructive ones like Trich. Fresh air works wonders outdoors. We can't come close to the CFM of air exchange mother nature can.

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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Can spores get out of a filter patch bag? [Re: Smushroom]
    #8364185 - 05/05/08 07:40 AM (15 years, 10 months ago)

As I said above, in nature everything lives in harmony. In fact, there's more bacteria cells in your own body than human cells. If you 'sterilized' all the bacteria in your body, you'd die unless you lived in a bubble.
RR


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semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat

"I've never had a failed experiment.  I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
Thomas Edison

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Offlineamanitavirosa
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Re: Can spores get out of a filter patch bag? [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #8364192 - 05/05/08 07:45 AM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
In fact, there's more bacteria cells in your own body than human cells.
RR




Ok, now thats just getting carried away. This is simply untrue - however, I will support the statement that there are LOTS of bacteria in and around our bodies. The "average" human (if you can ever accept that statement) has roughly 10^14 cells. If you were to count human to bacteria cell counts, the bacteria would be slightly less than half the total number.

Ie. For every 100 eukaryotic (human) cells, you can expect around 45 prokaryotic (bacteria).

Now getting back to the original topic here, the reason that trich. infested substrate can tend to rebound outdoors is due to competition. The trichoderma have no real competition in a "sterile" substrate jar - they are at the top of the trophic pyramid (food chain). When you introduce the contaminated substrate to the diversity of nature, the trichoderma encounter competition from many sources which allow the competing basidimycete species a chance of successs.


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Can spores get out of a filter patch bag? [Re: amanitavirosa]
    #8364211 - 05/05/08 07:58 AM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Ok, now thats just getting carried away. This is simply untrue




Before you call bullshit on me, do your research instead of simply telling everyone how great a biotechnician you are. Unless you're more knowledgeable than some of the top researchers in the country, I stand by what I said. It only took two minutes to find a few links for you. I could have posted dozens more.


http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=strange-but-true-humans-carry-more-bacterial-cells-than-human-ones&sc=WR_20071204
http://www.boingboing.net/2007/12/05/your-body-has-10x-mo.html
http://www.muychingon.com/2007/12/17/we-are-have-more-bacteria-cells-than-human-cells/
RR


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semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat

"I've never had a failed experiment.  I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
Thomas Edison

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Offlineamanitavirosa
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Re: Can spores get out of a filter patch bag? [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #8364219 - 05/05/08 08:04 AM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
Before you call bullshit on me, do your research instead of simply telling everyone how great a biotechnician you are.




Ok, do you ever remember hearing the old statement: "well its on the internet, it must be true!"? Have you bothered to look into how your "references" 'count' the human bacterial loads? Should I even bother to go into how their methods are flawed? I mean, I can save you the effort of looking if you like. Aw hell, I'll just give you a hint. Their counting methods do NOT include viable cell counts - only total cell count. Small difference really.

Oh, and simply quoting a website that directly quotes your first reference - that's really reliable.

Just lol, RR.

If you are really that bent-out-of-shape, perhaps I will quote some primary scientific literature for you?

Tell you what, lets take our little flame war to PMs so: a) we don't have to bore everyone here with off-topic chat and b) so your pride won't suffer.

edit: invitation to PMs


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-AV-

Edited by amanitavirosa (05/05/08 08:11 AM)

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OfflineHeadFood
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Re: Can spores get out of a filter patch bag? [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #8364225 - 05/05/08 08:06 AM (15 years, 10 months ago)

That all makes a lot sense. Thanks for clearing that up for me. Can't wait to see amanitavirosa's response to RR's post!


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Phi Alpha

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Offlineheretician
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Re: Can spores get out of a filter patch bag? [Re: HeadFood]
    #8364512 - 05/05/08 10:23 AM (15 years, 10 months ago)

Epic. Prz don't take to PMs

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