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 AlaskanMusher
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Registered: 12/10/07
Posts: 21
Last seen: 15 years, 5 days
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 LC concentration 
#8263940 - 04/10/08 11:00 AM (16 years, 9 days ago) |
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Ive heard 3% and 4%. I was about to do an experimental run with 2 3 4 and 5 % jars before I made a bunch of clone lcs, but I figured someone out there had done this before so I though I would ask. In the past I have used 4 ml of honey to 100 ml of water, using a syringe and microvave warmed honey to measure, and the 100 ml mark on my half pint jars. I have had decent success but my lcs seem to stall after like 75% colonization. Out of the few jars I have inoculated with my lc they all have done well except for some late bacterial contam on 1. One jar which I used 20 ml instead of 10 ml of TC LC had full surface colonization in 5 days. Anyone know what a ml of honey weighs, since I just read that it is supposed to be by weight, not volume? ps. I tried karo before too and it works just not as well as honey imo. Thanks a lot guys
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amanitavirosa
absurdlyoptimistic
 
Registered: 04/07/08
Posts: 430
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Last seen: 14 years, 10 months
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I'd go with 4% since its a fairly common concentration in the scientific (mycology and bacteriology) world.
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-AV-
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AlaskanMusher
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well I found that honey is 1.36 kg/ L = 1.36g/ml= 4g/2.94 ml. So basicaly I was making a 5% solution in the past. So for making 4% by weight 100 ml LC jars, just suck up 5 ml of warmed honey into your syringe, then inject into your jar down to the 2 ml mark. Thought this might help out those without digital scales or those who think this is an easier way.
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amanitavirosa
absurdlyoptimistic
Registered: 04/07/08
Posts: 430
Loc: Cold places
Last seen: 14 years, 10 months
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In all honesty, the difference between 4% and 5% is almost negligible. And really, if you wanted to be more precise about concentration, do the molar equiv. ratio to solve for the mass of honey required and forgo the volume entirely.
Its true though, when people make % solutions based on volume, they assume that the density of what they are measuring approximates the density of water (1g / mL).
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-AV-
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 tahoe
Noob Slayer
Registered: 11/26/03
Posts: 6,274
Loc: N38.93829W119.98108
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i use 1 dry gram of malt and 500ml of water. Works better than any other ratios. I believe it is well below 4%
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81Renaissance
Mad Scientist
Registered: 11/01/06
Posts: 457
Last seen: 2 months, 1 day
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Re: LC concentration [Re: tahoe]
#8264102 - 04/10/08 11:57 AM (16 years, 9 days ago) |
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I'm using your tek for my LC's tahoe, what's your timeline from inoculation to 50% colonization and then from there to 100%?
I know I can use it prior to 100%, but I'm curious.
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"Every passing moment is another chance to turn it all around."
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tahoe
Noob Slayer
Registered: 11/26/03
Posts: 6,274
Loc: N38.93829W119.98108
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its usually a week. Its nothing special as far as speed goes.
I never use spore syringes to inoculate my lcs but I would think you could use the lc 2-3 days after seeing germination.
I use cultures. I score a 10mm x 1" rectagular section of a culture/petri. Leaving it in place I now cut this into a dozen little slivers of mycelium. I never cut all the way through the agar, just the top to cut through the live mycelium. Now I drag the scalpel across the top of the culture to tear the mycelium off the top of the agar. It will roll into a bb sized ball of mycelium. I drop this into the lc using a glove box.
Once it hits the water it seperates into a dozen little pieces. You can see new growth within 24 hours and its good enough to use within a few days. Complete colonization comes in a few weeks but after about 25% or 10 days I stick it in the fridge. They become so overgrown if not cooled off that its a pain in the ass to suck them into a syringe.
Pipe dreams of a 11/2 gallon jar of lc. It is near impossible to use that much.
Over grown. Try sucking this into a syringe
Clean vs dirty
Which is which?? The diry one is on the right. You can see the little piece of mycelium on top. The haze in the water is a sure sign of a contam. No the good one looks super yellow. Its actually a lot clearer than that, its a bad pic. Although the mycelium will produce metabolites and start turning the water yellow if its too warm and get over grown. That why they have their own shelf in the wine fridge
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Stop experimenting half way through your first grow. Grow it to maturity, watch it, learn from it. Do this a few times then experiment with different ideas and figure out what works best for you.
My Legacy
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/22140987#22140987
Teh=The
I need to proofread
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solumvita
Q.B.E.
Registered: 02/12/08
Posts: 2,061
Loc: South Africa
Last seen: 10 months, 3 days
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Re: LC concentration [Re: tahoe]
#8264443 - 04/10/08 01:41 PM (16 years, 9 days ago) |
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I tried an experiment and made up 0.1, 1, 2, and 4% and could not see the difference between the four concentrations in terms of speed of colonization of the LC. But i did see a difference in colonization of the substrate and concluded that while 4% was marginally faster 2% was adequate and fine for a LC. Of course if you have loads of money then use 4% as the best compromise.
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81Renaissance
Mad Scientist
Registered: 11/01/06
Posts: 457
Last seen: 2 months, 1 day
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Re: LC concentration [Re: tahoe]
#8266963 - 04/10/08 10:42 PM (16 years, 9 days ago) |
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Thanks tahoe.
I had read your method for scoring the mycelium before, but I forgot about it when I actually did my LC's so I'll have to wait to try that until next time.
I appreciate the info.
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"Every passing moment is another chance to turn it all around."
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Peterthinks
(Caulking) gun for hire
Registered: 11/10/04
Posts: 2,379
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I totally dinked the math.
This is 0.4 percent by volume cooking molasses.
4 CC in 1 liter water.
Works good but not crystal clear.
1/4 teaspoon dextrose (corn sugar for brewing beer) in 200 Ml water works too and is very clear.
I have a little oyster clone LC sitting on my desk right now.
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wocka
Lurker
Registered: 10/26/07
Posts: 771
Last seen: 6 years, 6 months
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i saw how u had that overgrown mycelium ball in that once LC, how many spores did it take to do that. why isnt the community just shooting spores into an lc waiting for it to fully colonize then adding that to a substrate?
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amanitavirosa
absurdlyoptimistic
Registered: 04/07/08
Posts: 430
Loc: Cold places
Last seen: 14 years, 10 months
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Re: LC concentration [Re: wocka]
#8268566 - 04/11/08 08:50 AM (16 years, 8 days ago) |
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All it takes is 1 viable spore. I would just take way longer with only 1 spore.
Ideally, you would only use a few thousand spores, so, maybe 250uL of "standard" inoculant. My point being that you don't need to waste a lot of your spore syringe on an LC inoculation.
The best method is to use already colonized mycelia from a batch you know produces good fruiting bodies.
Then there is the tissue cloning method which preserves the genetic compliment of a particular mushroom of interest. This is another great method.
I think the majority of people seem to use mycelia inoculation as opposed to spore inoculation simply for the shorter incubation period.
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-AV-
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wocka
Lurker
Registered: 10/26/07
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Last seen: 6 years, 6 months
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but wouldnt it make sense to just replace LC with rye, brf, and wbs. or does it not produce enough mycelium, but it doesnt look like thats the case
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amanitavirosa
absurdlyoptimistic
Registered: 04/07/08
Posts: 430
Loc: Cold places
Last seen: 14 years, 10 months
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Re: LC concentration [Re: wocka]
#8268602 - 04/11/08 09:10 AM (16 years, 8 days ago) |
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LC is used in place of inoculating with spores. Think of it as doing 2 things:
1. it amplifies the cell content of the inoculant - ie. you are making more fungal cells by allowing them to grow and divide. In theory just a single spore and grow to be a hyphal network (mycelia) that in turn can spawn new sub-colonies.
2. you are getting a jump-start when you inoculate with mycelia as opposed to spores. This helps in conditions where you either need faster colonization, larger amounts of inoculation are necessary, or when you need a little extra edge against contams.
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-AV-
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wocka
Lurker
Registered: 10/26/07
Posts: 771
Last seen: 6 years, 6 months
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but has anyone ever tried to take out a fully colonized LC and spawn it to something like coir? and then case n fruit.. and just skip the inoculation? 
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tahoe
Noob Slayer
Registered: 11/26/03
Posts: 6,274
Loc: N38.93829W119.98108
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Re: LC concentration [Re: wocka]
#8268815 - 04/11/08 10:36 AM (16 years, 8 days ago) |
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lc doesnt have enough sugar or structure to produce an adbundant amount of mushrooms although they do form on the floating mats of mycelium.
The idea of using an lc to inoculate a bulk is good but it had to be done under 100% sterile conditions. I think japanese mycologist use it to inoculate huge batches of sawdust.
The problem is that the lc's are never fully colonized so they are extremely suseptable to contams once the jars are opened.
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Stop experimenting half way through your first grow. Grow it to maturity, watch it, learn from it. Do this a few times then experiment with different ideas and figure out what works best for you.
My Legacy
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/22140987#22140987
Teh=The
I need to proofread
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