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Offlinecamplo
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Cant figure out limestone...help meh please.
    #8261210 - 04/09/08 07:09 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

I was experimenting and I added like 3 tablespoons of limestone to some water and its been sitting for several days and no ph change... what gives? I need enough insight to guestimate how much to add to vermiculite casing (yes I know it doesn't need it BUT as a long term buffer it should help right?)
campalisous


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Offlineamanitavirosa
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Re: Cant figure out limestone...help meh please. [Re: camplo]
    #8261346 - 04/09/08 07:29 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Well limestone as you have now found out has a very low solubility product (Ksp), meaning it is not very soluble in water.

You shouldn't expect it to dissolve in water at all really .. not in any appreciable way. Just add a small amount of lime to your casing and you are good to go.

The purpose of lime is to buffer the pH at around 6.4 (the pKa of lime) as the fungi grow.


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OfflineNibin
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Re: Cant figure out limestone...help meh please. [Re: amanitavirosa]
    #8262391 - 04/09/08 10:52 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

To instantly increase pH use hydrated lime.

Then, for the buffer effect calcium carbonate (coming from limestone or other sources) or gypsum (but gypsum is nowhere near as effective).

Oh and remember, never use dolomitic lime, shrooms don't like the excess magnesium


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Offlinecamplo
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Re: Cant figure out limestone...help meh please. [Re: Nibin]
    #8265236 - 04/10/08 05:13 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

thank you again for the informative responses!
camp


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Offlinecamplo
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Re: Cant figure out limestone...help meh please. [Re: camplo]
    #8265250 - 04/10/08 05:15 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Actually check this out. Its been maybe 3 days with limestone sitting in that quart jar of water and the ph has dropped half a unit from neutral. Whats that about!?


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OfflineNibin
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Re: Cant figure out limestone...help meh please. [Re: camplo]
    #8265651 - 04/10/08 06:21 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

This is me applying my long unused chemistry knowledge. I might be very wrong.

Calcium carbonate in sitting water does this:

CaCO3 + CO2 + H2O -> Ca(HCO3)2

In laymans terms it turns into calcium bicarbonate. HCO3-

Calcium bicarbonate is soluble in water and dissolves into Calcium ions and bicarbonate ions which are an acid or alkali depending on the pH (i.e. a pH buffer)

The bicarbonate chemical balance is like this

2H+ + CO32-<-->H+ + HCO3- <--> H2CO3 <-->H2O + CO2

So, if your jar is uncovered, CO2 will evaporate and hydrogen ions will dissapear (having being turned into water) and it will keep on happening as the CO2is leaving the system. That will have the effect of increasing your pH

But if you jar is covered CO2 will build up and the chemical balance will swing the other way and as you are still adding bicarbonate ions which will act as an acid, decreasing your pH.

This is just a private theory, correct me if I am wrong.

Edited by Nibin (04/10/08 06:38 PM)

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Offlinecamplo
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Re: Cant figure out limestone...help meh please. [Re: Nibin]
    #8265854 - 04/10/08 06:57 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Smart man, being a very early science major, I am impressed but dont feel flattered cause i couldnt tell you you were wrong cause... I just dont know any better. when I get home Ill look in my chemistry book =)


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OfflineNibin
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Re: Cant figure out limestone...help meh please. [Re: camplo]
    #8265869 - 04/10/08 07:01 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Lol I haven't used any inorganic chemistry since my last years at school and I am a bit more familiar with the bicarbonate buffer because it is basic for blood pH and I did it in first year of what would be pre-med school for you. (it works different over here)


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Offlinecamplo
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Re: Cant figure out limestone...help meh please. [Re: Nibin]
    #8266105 - 04/10/08 07:50 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

<-- 3 years from RN


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