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 wocka
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Registered: 10/26/07
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 TOPFIN pH Decrease? 
#8254626 - 04/08/08 08:20 AM (16 years, 12 days ago) |
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I was trying to get ahold of some agricultural hydrated lime to make my substrate of coco-coir more acidic. I came across a Topfin ph decreaser and increaser, it geuss it lowers the pH for aquariums. it is in liquid form. the bottle suggest 5ml of solution for 10 gallons of water.
my question is could i mix this in my coco-coir substrate to make it stronger against contams?
Like maybe when i boil my pot of water to throw in the brick of coco-coir to expand i could add this ph decreaser, either that or after its at field capacity. wat do you all suggest
Edited by wocka (04/08/08 08:25 AM)
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amanitavirosa
absurdlyoptimistic
 
Registered: 04/07/08
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Re: TOPFIN pH Decrease? [Re: wocka]
#8254639 - 04/08/08 08:31 AM (16 years, 12 days ago) |
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First consider what pH you want to achieve.
When you say you want to make the substrate more acidic, do you know how acidic you want to go? If so then yes, you can actually calculate how much pH lowering solution (ie. acid) you need to add.
I have two concerns though. First being that you want to select an acid that has two soluble fractions that will not sequester nutrients upon dissolution. I'd suggest something like acetic acid (vinegar) or carbonic acid (soda water). Other acids may be too strong and hydrolyze the nutrients.
Second, adding lime does not make the substrate more acidic, in fact, it would have the net effect of making it slightly less acidic (more basic). The reason you add lime to the substrate (usually casing layer) is to buffer the pH of the environment at a pH of around 6.4 (slightly acidic).
If you are really hell-bent on making your substrate more acidic, you could always add some coffee grounds. Or experiment and add the pH reducer (remember acid = low pH). To add a calculated amount of the solution, you would need to know: the concentration of acid, the pKa of the acid, and the final volume of solution you wish to use. Then use the Henderson-Hasselbach equation to solve for the unknown concentration of acid (referred to as [HA] in the equation).
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-AV-
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 Tomandjerry58
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Registered: 01/27/03
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nice answer ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
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wocka
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Okay, Ill scratch the aquarium pH adjusters
the reason why im trying to use a ph buffer or something like that, (hydrated lime,carbonated soda, vinegar) is because my last coco coir as a bulk substrate got contamed by trich, on the bottom it had a big colony, so that means it got in there before the mycelium did.
To sterilize my coco coir is broke it up with mildly hot water, and baked it in the oven for 160 at one hour.
How much of carbonated soda should i add to coco coir, and is this before or after i sterilize/prep it
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Tomandjerry58
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Registered: 01/27/03
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Re: TOPFIN pH Decrease? [Re: wocka]
#8254680 - 04/08/08 08:47 AM (16 years, 12 days ago) |
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do you have a ph tester..... also i don't think raising the ph is going to help..... how are you trying to colonize( what method? grain pf cake?)
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amanitavirosa
absurdlyoptimistic
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Re: TOPFIN pH Decrease? [Re: wocka]
#8254689 - 04/08/08 08:52 AM (16 years, 12 days ago) |
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If you are sterilizing (I think you mean to pasteurize it instead - meaning lower temp. than 121'C) then you really shouldn't need the increased acidic conditions.
I am not convinced that decreasing the pH will work for Trichoderma. I know of a few scientific papers which actually grow Trichoderma (wildtype) at low pH without issues. Low pH is more so to prevent bacterial contamination.
If you are insistent on using the acidic inhibition method, pasteurize your coco coir first, then try soaking it in a weak vinegar solution (say, 100mL in 1L water) and then let it drain off for a bit and then moisten to your preference with water.
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-AV-
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amanitavirosa
absurdlyoptimistic
Registered: 04/07/08
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Last seen: 14 years, 10 months
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Quote:
preschooler said:
do you have a ph tester..... also i don't think raising the ph is going to help..... how are you trying to colonize( what method? grain pf cake?)
Using those pool pH test strips work well as a pH indicator actually.
But just to avoid confusion here, he wants to lower the pH and not raise it.
Imagine a number line for a second...
1~~~2~~~3~~~4~~~5~~~6~~~7~~~8~~~9~~~10~~~11~~~12~~~13~~~14
Acid~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Base
Low pH = acid
High pH = base
pH = 7 = neutral
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wocka
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so was there any way to stop the trich from hitting my coco coir early on? i spawned colonized rye to the coco coir, but i think i may have used too much substrate and not enough spawn. next time ill look into this
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myelination
psychopharmacologist
Registered: 02/21/08
Posts: 281
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Re: TOPFIN pH Decrease? [Re: wocka]
#8254823 - 04/08/08 09:55 AM (16 years, 12 days ago) |
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you don't mention what you used but most people recommend a ratio of 1:4 (spawn:substrate) by volume. going a bit higher (1:2 or even 1:1) would give the mycelium more of a chance to colonize the sub quickly, lessening the chance of contaminations.
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wocka
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thats what im going to be doing next.
how thick of a spawn/substrate/mycelium colony do you need for it to fruit? like 2"?
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jinxedsoul
It's all in yourhead.
Registered: 03/21/08
Posts: 81
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Re: TOPFIN pH Decrease? [Re: wocka]
#8256662 - 04/08/08 06:45 PM (16 years, 11 days ago) |
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most would recommend 4" substrate with 1/2" casing.
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wocka
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Re: TOPFIN pH Decrease? [Re: jinxedsoul]
#8256684 - 04/08/08 06:51 PM (16 years, 11 days ago) |
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If i dont have that much spawn wat would be the least amount of substrate i.e an inch?
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jinxedsoul
It's all in yourhead.
Registered: 03/21/08
Posts: 81
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Re: TOPFIN pH Decrease? [Re: wocka]
#8256705 - 04/08/08 06:56 PM (16 years, 11 days ago) |
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less substrate = small fruits
I wouldn't go less then 2" I am sure less would work just hinder your yield.
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