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 wilgi
Stranger
Registered: 03/19/08
Posts: 559
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 5-htp and E 
#8245005 - 04/05/08 11:46 PM (16 years, 14 days ago) |
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sorry if this has been posted but i could not find it and i hope nobody minds to relive this topic, i was told my a experienced organic chemist student, that 5-htp, will block E (MDMA) from having neuro toxic effects completey, he said to take it about 30-50 minutes after dosing, somewhere between 200-500 mg's of the 5-htp and it will even let the peak go higher, please only replys from people who can provide facts agaisnt his claim, no bias shit, i like to learn, and to help him learn if he is wrong, thanks a lot!
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retired
Edited by wilgi (04/05/08 11:59 PM)
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 Legoulash
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Re: 5-htp and E [Re: wilgi]
#8245199 - 04/06/08 01:00 AM (16 years, 14 days ago) |
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in my experience there is no noticeable difference in the experience whatsoever .
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truffleupagus
Registered: 02/19/06
Posts: 3,103
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Re: 5-htp and E [Re: wilgi]
#8245581 - 04/06/08 06:36 AM (16 years, 14 days ago) |
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As far as blocking it from having neuro toxic effects altogether, that's not something I would bank on.
And 500mg seems like a lot to take at once. I picked up some from gnc and they're 100mg capsules. I don't know about anybody else but the stuff seems to make me gassy.
I'll usually just take one of those morning and night for a couple days after a roll.
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LSDreamer
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Registered: 03/11/08
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No. It won't block neurotoxicity. Also, don't take it while you're rolling, take it after. Taking it while you're rolling could potentially increase the risk of serotonin syndrome.
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Noviseer
Percussion isFree
Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 3,994
Last seen: 9 years, 4 months
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Neurotoxicity is a result of dopamine oxidation happening in the wrong place--it has nothing to do with serotonin.
In theory you'd think taking 5-htp might make you roll harder or maybe mitigate the crash--but in practice most people find it mutes the roll. Better to take it before you go to bed, to give your brain some raw materials to synth up some more serotonin.
What prevents neurotoxicity--low doses, staying cool, drinking enough water--common sense stuff. Theoretically an SSRI like prozac should prevent neurotoxicity as well, but studies are conflicted on that.
There is no such thing as a free lunch.
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namaste said:
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sleepy
zZzZzZzZz
Registered: 01/17/05
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Re: 5-htp and E [Re: wilgi]
#8246104 - 04/06/08 10:53 AM (16 years, 13 days ago) |
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wheres the conclusive evidence that pure MDMA is toxic? pure MDMA, that is.
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wilgi
Stranger
Registered: 03/19/08
Posts: 559
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Re: 5-htp and E [Re: sleepy]
#8246120 - 04/06/08 10:59 AM (16 years, 13 days ago) |
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thanks for your replies, i'll see what he says, he seemed very sure on the matter, is there any organic chemists on this forum?
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LSDreamer
Materialist
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Posts: 10,059
Last seen: 1 month, 13 days
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Re: 5-htp and E [Re: wilgi]
#8246154 - 04/06/08 11:10 AM (16 years, 13 days ago) |
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Why don't you ask him the specific pharmacological action by which 5-HTP prevents neurotoxicity?
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Bend the Bong
replace concrete with trees
Registered: 12/18/07
Posts: 91
Last seen: 15 years, 3 months
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everything is toxic...mdma can be bad but what's worse is straight up speed...
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Behind Closed Eyelids
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LSDreamer
Materialist
Registered: 03/11/08
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^MDMA is likely more neurotoxic than (meth)amph There isn't a whole lot of conclusive lab evidence that it is neurotoxic, but in theory it is and anecdotal evidence supports this. Wait 1-3 months between rolls!
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sleepy
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Re: 5-htp and E [Re: wilgi]
#8246361 - 04/06/08 12:12 PM (16 years, 13 days ago) |
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yeah, i have no idea if its toxic or not, i was just wondering what the evidence might be.
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Yossarian22
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Re: 5-htp and E [Re: Noviseer]
#8247299 - 04/06/08 04:49 PM (16 years, 13 days ago) |
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Quote:
Noviseer said:
Neurotoxicity is a result of dopamine oxidation happening in the wrong place--it has nothing to do with serotonin.
I'm not an expert, but I remember that slide-show DanceSafe had a while ago mentioning that a lack of seritonin may encourage dopamine to be "picked up" by SSRs instead of seritonin, which can cause said dopamine oxidation damage. If that's true, then I imagine mitigating seritonin depletion would have a protective effect. Of course I have no idea how accurate that presentation is. And quite frankly, I doubt there would be enough evidence to show it prevented any brain damage even if it were true, because "ways to get high with fewer drawbacks" isn't really on most drug agency's research agenda. My feeling is that it can't hurt and it alleviates the crash, so why not take it?
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leoside
AKA cannon fodder
Registered: 01/18/08
Posts: 1,489
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Re: 5-htp and E [Re: wilgi]
#8247626 - 04/06/08 06:10 PM (16 years, 13 days ago) |
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Quote:
3,4-Methylenedioxymethamphetamine (MDMA or "Ecstasy") is a psychoactive and hallucinogenic drug of abuse. MDMA has been shown to produce neurotoxicity both in animals and humans. MDMA and other amphetamines induce serotonergic and dopaminergic terminal neurotoxicity and also neurodegeneration in areas including the cortex, hippocampus, striatum and thalamus. Herein, we investigated the mechanisms involved in MDMA-induced neurotoxicity to neuronal serum free cultures from rat cortex. The hyperthermic effect produced by MDMA has been shown to be a clinically relevant aspect for the neurotoxic events. Thus, MDMA-induced toxicity to cortical neurons was evaluated both under normothermic (36.5 °C) and hyperthermic (40 °C) conditions. Our findings showed that MDMA produced neuronal apoptosis, accompanied by activation of caspase 3, in a concentration dependent manner. MDMA neurotoxicity was completely prevented by pre-treatment with a 5-HT2A-receptor antibody, which acted as an "irreversible non-competitive antagonist" of this receptor. Furthermore, MDMA depleted intracellular glutathione (GSH) levels in a concentration dependent manner, an effect that was attenuated by Ketanserin, a competitive 5-HT2A-receptor antagonist. Accordingly, N-acetylcysteine, an antioxidant and GSH precursor, also reduced MDMA-induced toxicity. Specific inhibitors of the inducible and neuronal nitric oxide synthase (NOS) partially prevented MDMA neurotoxicity, ascertaining the involvement of reactive nitrogen species, in the toxic effect. In conclusion, direct MDMA 5-HT2A-receptor stimulation produces intracellular oxidative stress that leads to neuronal apoptosis accompanied by caspase 3 activation.
"Ecstasy induces apoptosis via 5-HT2A-receptor stimulation in cortical neurons"
Capela, J.P., Fernandes, E., Remião, F., Bastos, M.L., Meisel, A., Carvalho, F. 2007 NeuroToxicology 28 (4), pp. 868-875
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Coaster
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Quote:
LSDreamer said:
^MDMA is likely more neurotoxic than (meth)amph There isn't a whole lot of conclusive lab evidence that it is neurotoxic, but in theory it is and anecdotal evidence supports this. Wait 1-3 months between rolls!
actually there is CONCLUSIVE evidence that meth is more brain damaging then mdma
and i never hear anecdoctal evidence suggest mdma brain damage
the only people i hear complaining that they cant think normally is the ones who pop 5 pills a night
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LSDreamer
Materialist
Registered: 03/11/08
Posts: 10,059
Last seen: 1 month, 13 days
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Re: 5-htp and E [Re: Coaster]
#8247656 - 04/06/08 06:19 PM (16 years, 13 days ago) |
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^Which is anecdotal evidence suggesting neurotoxicity.
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wilgi
Stranger
Registered: 03/19/08
Posts: 559
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ok well my friends going to take some tonight with his dbl stack, we'll see how he turns out in the morning
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retired
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