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OfflineGnosticMedia
Jan Irvin

Registered: 09/05/04
Posts: 117
Last seen: 8 years, 9 months
New article debunks Hawk and Venus - Soma Shamans
    #8219126 - 03/31/08 12:06 PM (16 years, 1 day ago)

http://www.pharmacratic-inquisition.com/Articles/HawkVenus.htm


Hawk and Venus: Neo-Shamanism or Megalomania?
A Critical Rejoinder to Raw Amanita is Always Best
By J.R. Irvin

March 31, 2008

Copyright J.R. Irvin, 2008. All rights reserved.

Introduction

The following is a rebuttal to the “journal” entry Raw Amanita is Always Best by the ambiguously named “Hawk and Venus,” August 12, 2006. This rebuttal also serves as a critique and review of their book, Sacred Soma Shamans, 2006.

It is essential to the safety those interested in the use of entheogens, and especially Amanita muscaria, to understand the distortions, dangers and misconceptions of Hawk and Venus’s presentation.

Hawk and Venus are the self proclaimed “High Soma Priests” of Amanita muscaria mushrooms and authors of the book Sacred Soma Shamans, 2006.

On August 12, 2006, Hawk and Venus posted comments on their website www.somashamans.com. These comments focused on a footnote from our book, Astrotheology & Shamanism (Irvin and Rutajit, 2006), which briefly discusses disfavor with certain areas of their scholarship.

With the help of others I had originally begun researching and writing this rebuttal at the time Hawk and Venus put their comments on their website in 2006. However, due to a legal complaint to their web host provider from another author, they temporarily took it down:

"Although we received a large amount of admiration in our August 12th update (in which I damned myco-urophilia), due to a single complaint to our web host, we've taken it down."
~ Hawk and Venus

I had since laid my rebuttal aside for more than a year thinking it wasn’t worth my time and that I’d let bygones be bygones. But do to regular interest in my thoughts on their work; as well as a slightly updated version of their commentary reappearing on the internet with the offending comments to that one author removed, I couldn’t help but complete this rebuttal and figured it is in the public’s best interest that it be completed.

[...]

To show the breadth and scope of their attack as it was originally intended, one must first read their original (August 12, 2006) diatribe in full. Following their commentary I will provide a step by step breakdown of their remarks with quoted citations.

Edited by TheHemperor (03/31/08 01:33 PM)

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InvisibleEntropymancer
 User Gallery

Registered: 07/16/05
Posts: 10,207
Re: New article debunks Hawk and Venus - Soma Shamans [Re: GnosticMedia]
    #8219215 - 03/31/08 12:36 PM (16 years, 23 hours ago)

Nice find. I've always been a bit skeptical of those two.

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Invisiblethedudenj
Man of the Woods

Registered: 08/18/04
Posts: 14,684
Re: New article debunks Hawk and Venus - Soma Shamans [Re: Entropymancer]
    #8219284 - 03/31/08 12:54 PM (16 years, 23 hours ago)

hmm i think they are crack pots to but i do agree amanita are best fresh,but only if you have high spiritual powers with energy work and stuff, i cant say doing it has taken a toll on my body in any way.


--------------------

"You all are just  puppets... You have no heart...and cannot feel any pain...""
you may think thats pain you feel but you must have a heart to feel true pain and that pain wont be yours

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Offlinesomasupplies.com
Stranger
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Registered: 12/28/19
Posts: 1
Last seen: 3 years, 10 months
Re: New article debunks Hawk and Venus - Soma Shamans [Re: thedudenj]
    #26404043 - 12/28/19 03:39 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

How to increase the potency 3X or more and minimize negative side effects from consuming Amanita muscaria and Amanita pantherina.

…Notes on decarboxylation of ibotenic acid to muscimol for your research thesis. ..

According to patent# US 2014/0004084 A1- Method for producing muscimol and/or reducing ibotenic acid present in Amanita tissue, only about 30% of the ibotenic acid is decarboxylated to muscimol from simple drying of Amanita mushrooms.

This leaves a ratio of 3 parts ibotenic acid/1 part muscimol present in the Amanita tissue. The majority of negative side effects are from ibotenic acid, a neurotoxin, according to the patent. Also, the full potential of the mushroom is not realized.

More treatment is necessary to drive the decarboxylation reaction to completion and thus to maximize the concentration of muscimol, the target ingredient, and minimize the amount of ibotenic acid and negative side effects. This treatment will increase the potency up to 3X or more.

Here are two options described in the patent:

There isn't a significant difference in the result between the two options. Option #1 is simpler and takes less time.

1. A hot water extract from ground mushroom tissue is ph adjusted to less than Ph6 or more than Ph 8 and simmered for 2-3 hours at 190F with the lid on. This is called refluxing. In a laboratory, refluxing is done by attaching a condenser to a round bottom flask and heating. The condenser returns evaporated water back to the reaction. The ph is then neutralized if desired.

Decarboxylation of ibotenic acid will not go to completion if the Ph is 7 (neutral). One part vinegar to 10-15 parts water will make it sufficiently acidic. This yields a ratio as high as 1:50 ibotenic acid:muscimol.

2. Some sugar and vitamin B6 are added to a hot water Amanita extract. Inoculate the extract with a tsp or two of active, unpasteurized yogurt.  Yogurt with active cultures contains lactobacillus bacteria. This is incubated at 90-130F for 3 days. These bacteria contain glutamate decarboxylase, an enzyme that will decarboxylate ibotenic acid to muscimol. Vitamin B6 (P-5-P) is a necessary cofactor. This yields a ratio as high as 1:90 ibotenic acid:muscimol. Decarboxylation of ibotenic acid has been driven to completion.

2a.
Experimental: To a hot water extract of 60 gr of ground, dry mushroom caps, add 10-20 mg of vitamin B6 (P-5-P) and 3.5 tsp sugar, 1-3 tbsp of yogurt that contains active cultures. Mix well and put in freezer until  frozen completely. Then place in an incubator and incubate at 90-130F for 3 days. After the first 12 hours, inoculate again with a tbsp of active culture yogurt and continue incubating for 2.5 days. Keep refrigerated until use. According to the patent, these procedures yield a substance that can be marketed as a supplement.  This sounds outrageous, but that is the claim.

Making a hot water extract (tea) from ground mushroom tissue is also important since consuming uncooked mushroom tissue can cause adverse physical effects (nausea) since  uncooked mushrooms are more difficult to digest than plant matter. This is true for all species. Cooking also helps release more nutritional potential from any species of edible mushroom and kills some potential opportunist pathogens.

For perspective, a similar decarboxylation process occurs in Cannabis. Fresh cannabis is not psychoactive unless it is cooked, dried, or smoked. Drying or smoking cannabis easily decarboxylates the THC to an active form. THC happens to be an easier compound to decarboxylate than ibotenic acid. Another note about cannabis is that when it is consumed orally, THC is metabolized by the liver before it travels to your brain. The metabolic product of THC metabolized in the liver is about 5X stronger then smoked THC which goes straight to the brain before being metabolized by the liver. This is important information for those who enjoy cannabis where it is legal.

Decarboxylation of tryptophan yields tryptamine. It is a simple process.

Dave Pekarek  Feb 2019
This is for information purposes only and not meant to imply consumption of Amanita mushrooms.


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OfflineMycQueen
Benevolent Monarch of Agaricales
Female User Gallery

Registered: 12/27/19
Posts: 105
Loc: Flag
Last seen: 3 years, 10 months
Re: New article debunks Hawk and Venus - Soma Shamans [Re: somasupplies.com]
    #26447550 - 01/23/20 02:52 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Soma, longtime lurker 1st post ever. Re: decarboxylization reaction.
Could one use #2 or #2a with active, unpasteurized yogurt to decarboxylate and possibly enhance effects of THC/CBD from cannabis? Basically making fermented psychoactive yogurt to increase gut health with probiotics, reduce seizures, offer medicinal pain relief and maybe even a nice buzz in a hopefully tasty treat.
Thanks in advance

P.S. Love this place :heart:

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OfflineBlabble40
Scorpio

Registered: 11/11/14
Posts: 1,182
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
Re: New article debunks Hawk and Venus - Soma Shamans [Re: MycQueen]
    #26449207 - 01/24/20 01:24 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

It would be better if you knew what species (Wikipedia uses the word “strain”) of bacteria you had in mind, then you’d be able to control what increase in health you want. Obviously, it’s said what you feed the guy influences your desires, as it’s really them speaking. When you feed it junk it makes you crave junk more, even if you don’t really want it, it fools your body into thinking it does. It’s really prebiotics that increases gut health, not probiotics.


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Edited by Blabble40 (01/24/20 12:16 PM)

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