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Offlineskymovessideways
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Registered: 02/02/08
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Last seen: 15 years, 11 months
Noob grow fails, plz help, pool of substance at base, slow growth
    #8161006 - 03/18/08 07:48 AM (16 years, 5 days ago)

OK, ill try and be brief. Firstly, I am new here, and have checked the facts/used search a little, but as I have pics, I really need specific feedback. The problems are slow growth and a collection of spore material at the base of the jars, no doubt related.

-2 plant grow, B+ strain, Inoculated 6th Feb, PF-Tek grow technique used without modification, inoculated 8 hours after their 60 min spell in pressure cooker (that includes the 15 min allowed for it to reach the right temp)

The following is where I think the problems must have come from:
I made 4 holes in the jar lids, and inoculated 1.2ml to 2ml solution per jar. This is more than PF-Tek suggests, but the jars are about 1/3 bigger than those recommended. The foil layer rubber banded on, the jars were placed in a plastic container that is almost airtight, the one pictured.

As I say, growth seemed slow, and after 3 weeks, only pockets of mycelium had developed, with the base of both jars lined with a circle of solution.

You might suggest I angled the needle too close to the edge, but I consciously tried to aim directly down through the holes this time after doing that last time and having a similar result to this.

All feedback will be much appreciated thanks

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Invisiblemyelination
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Registered: 02/21/08
Posts: 281
Re: Noob grow fails, plz help, pool of substance at base, slow growth [Re: skymovessideways]
    #8161039 - 03/18/08 08:00 AM (16 years, 5 days ago)

pooling water at the bottom is no good. did you follow the PF-tek substrate recipe exactly? probably not, since you have bigger jars. i would recommend sorting out the moisture content of your jars.

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Invisiblecreekfreek
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Re: Noob grow fails, plz help, pool of substance at base, slow growth [Re: myelination]
    #8161077 - 03/18/08 08:18 AM (16 years, 4 days ago)

OK, First off, when you PC'ed the jars did you have the foil on them?

And you should have pointed the needle to the jarso you could see the spore solution going into the jar.

So if you didnt have foil on the jars, thjere is your answer. steam (water) falls into the jars and you end up with to much water.

Good luck next time

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Offlineskymovessideways
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Registered: 02/02/08
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Last seen: 15 years, 11 months
Re: Noob grow fails, plz help, pool of substance at base, slow growth [Re: myelination]
    #8161085 - 03/18/08 08:19 AM (16 years, 4 days ago)

well I remember tipping the bowl with the vermiculite/BRF in and there being only a small amount of residue water not soaked up. Perhaps it was too much, as you say, but couldn't the pooling be more the result of some inolucation mistake? I don't know, the syringe being too deep, or near the edge maybe.

The pooling is only a circle around the base of the jar at the sides. When I tip the jars to see the base, it doesn't appear in the central area underneath at all. It's a slight brown colour.

Thanks for the feedback

Edited by skymovessideways (03/18/08 08:30 AM)

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Offlineskymovessideways
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Re: Noob grow fails, plz help, pool of substance at base, slow growth [Re: creekfreek]
    #8161129 - 03/18/08 08:39 AM (16 years, 4 days ago)

One layer of foil was over the jars when I PC'ed them, but I hadn't put the rubber bands on yet, and the pieces of foil barely covered the lid in places, so maybe some steam got in through the sides.

The jar size might be different, but the ratio of Verm/BRF was definitely that suggested in the PF'Tek, so I don't see how that could be a problem. Correct me if i'm wrong.

Thanks again, I didn't expect such quick responses :tongue2:

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Offlinespitstix
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Re: Noob grow fails, plz help, pool of substance at base, slow growth [Re: skymovessideways]
    #8161344 - 03/18/08 09:39 AM (16 years, 4 days ago)

Steam should be in your jars during Pcing. The water in your jars turns to steam which then sterilizes your jar. The foil is so the steam doesn't get out or water doesn't get in. The pool should only really happen if your substrate is already soaked. It's possible water got into the jars during PCing. Aiming your solution at the walls is not the reason, that is actually the recommended way of doing it.

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Invisibletahoe
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Re: Noob grow fails, plz help, pool of substance at base, slow growth [Re: spitstix]
    #8161404 - 03/18/08 09:51 AM (16 years, 4 days ago)

sounds like wet jars which has nothing to do with the amount of spore water used.
Most likely made the mix too wet, didn't follow the pf tek as stated, allowed water to enter the jar during pc'ing, probably packed the substrate too dense


--------------------
Stop experimenting half way through your first grow. Grow it to maturity, watch it, learn from it. Do this a few times then experiment with different ideas and figure out what works best for you.


My Legacy
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/22140987#22140987

Teh=The
I need to proofread

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Offlineskymovessideways
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Re: Noob grow fails, plz help, pool of substance at base, slow growth [Re: tahoe]
    #8161424 - 03/18/08 09:57 AM (16 years, 4 days ago)

Ok, I remember making sure not to condense the subsrate at all, but I guess water could have got in during in the PC'ing. I put a little over the recommended inch of water in there so it wouldn't run out part way through.

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Invisibletahoe
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Re: Noob grow fails, plz help, pool of substance at base, slow growth [Re: skymovessideways]
    #8161489 - 03/18/08 10:11 AM (16 years, 4 days ago)

so the water was an inch up the side of the jars?

Here is the deal with pc's. They only need about an inch for 60-90 min pc times if they are sealing correctly.

More isn't better, unless you are making agar and want it to cool slowly.

You need to figure out a way to keep the jars out of the water. They do not have to touch it and with 1/2 pints it is best not to have water touching them. Splashing water will easily go over the tops of the little jars.

make something that will not float or hold air that you can submerged under the water and set the jars on top


--------------------
Stop experimenting half way through your first grow. Grow it to maturity, watch it, learn from it. Do this a few times then experiment with different ideas and figure out what works best for you.


My Legacy
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/22140987#22140987

Teh=The
I need to proofread

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Invisiblecreekfreek
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Re: Noob grow fails, plz help, pool of substance at base, slow growth [Re: tahoe]
    #8161552 - 03/18/08 10:24 AM (16 years, 4 days ago)

My friend's Friend of a friend who new some other guy who did this once used a metal strainer (collander) and placed that on the bottom of the PC and put his jars on that

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Invisibletahoe
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Re: Noob grow fails, plz help, pool of substance at base, slow growth [Re: creekfreek]
    #8161581 - 03/18/08 10:30 AM (16 years, 4 days ago)

yeah good call. A veggie steamer tray, a steel colander.

I am just waiting for someone to recommend the horrible idea of using a wash cloth. This thing does not of enough height or allow the steam bubbles to escape fast enough to work well.


--------------------
Stop experimenting half way through your first grow. Grow it to maturity, watch it, learn from it. Do this a few times then experiment with different ideas and figure out what works best for you.


My Legacy
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/22140987#22140987

Teh=The
I need to proofread

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Offlinespitstix
Mind at Large


Registered: 02/24/03
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Last seen: 6 months, 12 days
Re: Noob grow fails, plz help, pool of substance at base, slow growth [Re: tahoe]
    #8162037 - 03/18/08 12:19 PM (16 years, 4 days ago)

Tahoe... i'm going to have to recommend a larger avatar for sake of the rest of us... unless of course it's your wife... in which case, nice work :wink:

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Offlineitsallnines
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Re: Noob grow fails, plz help, pool of substance at base, slow growth [Re: spitstix]
    #8162047 - 03/18/08 12:21 PM (16 years, 4 days ago)

i've used a wash cloth in the PC. it worked. i don't recommend it.


--------------------
by their fruits ye shall know them.

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OfflineCiv
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Re: Noob grow fails, plz help, pool of substance at base, slow growth [Re: creekfreek]
    #8162072 - 03/18/08 12:30 PM (16 years, 4 days ago)

Water content. You want no pooling water- even when your mixing your medium.


I changed the PF-Tek on my side- I take the Verm, get the verm to field capacity. Take a flour sifter- and sift it over your verm, slowly, mix it up.

This ensures you only have enough flour to coat the verm- nothing extra.


--------------------
"...Gal's seem to hate the thought of blending chicken shit in a blender.
So, wash it well afterwards & DON'T tell them..."  -Agar

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OfflineSeventy
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Re: Noob grow fails, plz help, pool of substance at base, slow growth [Re: Civ]
    #8162137 - 03/18/08 12:49 PM (16 years, 4 days ago)

if you use something like a wash cloth then eventually the glass in your jars gets brittle and can break very easily, due to being heated so hot over and over

I learned this as I was digging out spawn for my monotub, and the bottom of the jar busted out :frown:

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Offlineskymovessideways
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Registered: 02/02/08
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Last seen: 15 years, 11 months
Re: Noob grow fails, plz help, pool of substance at base, slow growth [Re: Seventy]
    #8162191 - 03/18/08 01:03 PM (16 years, 4 days ago)

Sorry all, I should have clarifed the situation with my pressure cooker. I used one of those metal stands that come with them and rested the jars on that.

So, although I had about 2 inchs of water in there, because of the stand, the water only came up to about 1/2cm on the jars. Perhaps this is still a little too high?

Thanks for the sieve suggestion, that does sound like a very effective way of achieving a precise ratio.

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Offlineikkes
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Registered: 02/07/08
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Re: Noob grow fails, plz help, pool of substance at base, slow growth [Re: skymovessideways]
    #8162237 - 03/18/08 01:15 PM (16 years, 4 days ago)

Quote:

skymovessideways said:
Sorry all, I should have clarifed the situation with my pressure cooker. I used one of those metal stands that come with them and rested the jars on that.





I know these yeah... used it to the last time.
overheated the jars to the point they are starting to deform.

But slow growth you mean all the time or just like my cakes.
Initial growth ok, but after 2-3 weeks or so really slow, leaving uncolonized or partially colonized densely packed substrate at the bottom.

I followed the PF tek manual I got letter for letter.. and possibly ended up with to wet substrate as well.
second time around I reduced water and results are better now, but still little to much.
I think the vermiculite used also might have something to do with it, is it rather course or really fine.
I've noticed the finer grades are crappy, don't hold to much moisture and make sure density of substrate is high.
To coarse probably also not ok


--------------------
..........3 Tage wach..........
:crazy2: :crazy2: :crazy2: :crazy2: :crazy2:
jetzt wirst du langsam schwach

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Offlineskymovessideways
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Re: Noob grow fails, plz help, pool of substance at base, slow growth [Re: ikkes]
    #8162678 - 03/18/08 03:24 PM (16 years, 4 days ago)

I used coarse vermiculite, and I didn't compress it, so at least i'm doing some stuff right. However I too noticed that my mycelium has grown in patches, and this occured with both jars.

The slow growth was probably consistent, but I only checked on them erratically

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Offlineskymovessideways
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Registered: 02/02/08
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Last seen: 15 years, 11 months
Re: Noob grow fails, plz help, pool of substance at base, slow growth [Re: skymovessideways]
    #8172516 - 03/20/08 04:09 PM (16 years, 2 days ago)

Ok, I will consider those tips about the importance of not having too much water when I next try a grow.

Would anyone be kind enough to add any final tips?

How long should the B+ strain take before I start pining? 3 weeks?

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OfflineLuce
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Registered: 03/01/08
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Re: Noob grow fails, plz help, pool of substance at base, slow growth [Re: skymovessideways]
    #8172613 - 03/20/08 04:38 PM (16 years, 2 days ago)

My tip is to keep the jars out of the water. Go to you tube and search for 'pf tek'.


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