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zouden
Neuroscientist
Registered: 11/12/07
Posts: 7,091
Loc: Australia
Last seen: 14 years, 5 months
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Can I spawn to coir and case with coir?
#8156338 - 03/17/08 07:35 AM (16 years, 15 days ago) |
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Hello, Im sorry if this has been asked before but I honestly couldnt find an answer - if I spawn grain to coir, can I case with 60/40 coir/verm? Oatmans great "Spawning to coir" guide describes casing with 50/50+. But is there any reason why coir/verm cant be used to case? It seems an obvious choice because its one less material to work with.
-------------------- I know... that just the smallest part of the world belongs to me You know... I'm not a blind man but truth is the hardest thing to see
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myelination
psychopharmacologist
Registered: 02/21/08
Posts: 281
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Re: Can I spawn to coir and case with coir? [Re: zouden]
#8156461 - 03/17/08 08:59 AM (16 years, 15 days ago) |
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searching for "coir casing" gives me at least five relevant threads. next time use the freaking search function.
the problem is that coir is nutritive and your casing layer should be as inert as possible. you want your substrate (coir) to be full of nutrients but you want your casing layer just to hold in moisture and create the proper microenvironment for mushrooms. you can case with coir but i'm sure it would be more prone to overlay.
when you're a n00b, it's best to follow the teks to the letter. with a few grows under your belt you can start experimenting. and remember to search the forums before posting. there's a 98% chance your exact question has been asked before.
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HybridprX
Biodegrader of coir
Registered: 01/29/08
Posts: 2,588
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 6 years, 6 months
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Re: Can I spawn to coir and case with coir? [Re: myelination]
#8156526 - 03/17/08 09:22 AM (16 years, 15 days ago) |
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Spawning to straight coir is not as good as spawning to coir with a handful of coffee grinds
When using a coir/verm casing I highly recommend using a limited amount of coir, just enough to lightly coat the vermiculite, since coir does run fairly fast just a little is needed.
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shaggydogman
Stranger
Registered: 04/20/07
Posts: 672
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Re: Can I spawn to coir and case with coir? [Re: myelination]
#8156538 - 03/17/08 09:26 AM (16 years, 15 days ago) |
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Here's probably the best thread to read re the 'casing'. http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/7861086#7861086
As coir is nutritive you wouldn't technically call it a casing. The correct term would be along the lines of 'layered substrates'.
Cubes will fruit pretty well from a lot of substrates without a casing layer, coir being one of them. We could end up arguing terms, but I'm sure people know what I mean. So the the easy answer is yes, you can apply another layer of coir or coir/verm just before fruiting, in a similar manner that you would apply a casing layer!
It's probably best explained in the thread above by some of the very experienced old hands...
-------------------- Rye -- WBS | Grain LC -- G2G | Bulk -- Monotub | 50/50 -- Late Casing -- A Pinning Strategy Disclaimer: My opinion is subject to change at short notice subject to but not limited by new information and knowledge being made available.
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galadar
Registered: 05/09/07
Posts: 981
Loc: in a monotub!
Last seen: 2 years, 4 months
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Re: Can I spawn to coir and case with coir? [Re: shaggydogman]
#8156625 - 03/17/08 10:00 AM (16 years, 15 days ago) |
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the only casing ive used in the past with coir was 55coir 35verm 10calcium sand(gives texture)
works great
all other times i would use 50/50
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danknugz81
spiralingdownward
Registered: 02/22/08
Posts: 882
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Re: Can I spawn to coir and case with coir? [Re: galadar]
#8156932 - 03/17/08 11:28 AM (16 years, 14 days ago) |
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i'll be going with rye grain spawned to coir/coffee/verm as a substrate then casing with 50/50 on my first grow .. seems to be a proven method with lots of success
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Bungalow Bill
Happiness is aWarm Gun
Registered: 02/14/08
Posts: 69
Loc: Peking
Last seen: 15 years, 11 months
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Re: Can I spawn to coir and case with coir? [Re: danknugz81]
#8156999 - 03/17/08 11:46 AM (16 years, 14 days ago) |
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Agreed, spawn your rye 3 or 4 to 1, to a depth of about 4-5 inches.
Mix you coir 50/50 with verm, and add 10% gypsum as well.
-------------------- The fruit shall set you free.
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zouden
Neuroscientist
Registered: 11/12/07
Posts: 7,091
Loc: Australia
Last seen: 14 years, 5 months
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Re: Can I spawn to coir and case with coir? [Re: Bungalow Bill]
#8160471 - 03/18/08 01:43 AM (16 years, 14 days ago) |
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Quote:
myelination said: searching for "coir casing" gives me at least five relevant threads. next time use the freaking search function.
Next time read my freaking question, please. I know that coir is commonly used as casing; I use it all the time, and so do many people for whom coir is easier to get than peat. My question specifically asked whether there was any reason why coir couldn't be used in both the casing layer (aka Roadkill's 60/40 tek) and the bulk substrate (as in Oatman's tek).
Sorry for sounding grumpy, I just don't like being called a noob when I always make a particular effort to search for something before posting a question.
Thank you for your suggestions! I'll see if I can get some calcium sand (or oyster shells etc) and gypsum.
Edit: actually I'll just see if I can get an equivalent of Miracle Gro here in Australia... seems like that's the most popular casing material!
-------------------- I know... that just the smallest part of the world belongs to me You know... I'm not a blind man but truth is the hardest thing to see
Edited by zouden (03/18/08 05:37 AM)
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dumbfounded1600
Stranger
Registered: 07/29/07
Posts: 2,624
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Re: Can I spawn to coir and case with coir? [Re: zouden]
#8161494 - 03/18/08 10:12 AM (16 years, 14 days ago) |
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Coir is a great substrate but sucks as a casing layer.
Peat/Vermiculite/Gypsum/Lime
50% Peat/50% Vermiculite/10% Gypsum/Teaspoon or Tablespoon of HYDRATED LIME per cup of Peat Moss is what i'd recommend for a casing. You'll end up fucking it up or you might not but the odds are against you since you really have no experience yet. Most likely you'll run into problems. Make sure your casing pH should be around 8.0-8.5 . Reason we do this is because contaminants will die once hit in such a high pH. Commercial farms use it also. Another trick is when using hydrated lime and gypsum in your casing you don't even need to heat treat it as hydrated lime is such a fast worker and water soluble.
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Civ
Pinning
Registered: 10/14/04
Posts: 2,537
Loc: California
Last seen: 8 months, 15 days
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Re: Can I spawn to coir and case with coir? [Re: zouden]
#8161612 - 03/18/08 10:35 AM (16 years, 14 days ago) |
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Quote:
I know that coir is commonly used as casing; I use it all the time, and so do many people for whom coir is easier to get than peat.
If you add COIR to your grow, your adding more SUBSTRATE on top of substrate. Usally its a mix, so your myc on the top level doesn't all in sync decide to start fruiting, it see it has more substrate to colonize and will be in spawn mode- so when you 50/50 coir/whatever its doing the same thing, half the mass is like, "wtf its time to fruit"- and the other is like, "shit, foods still on my plate so we wont fruit till we need too"
Coir is NOT caseing material- sure, I have used it- but its wrong, and my pinsets and timeing of flushes would have been much better.
Its not a substitute for peatmoss. What is commonly used and whats correct are hard to merge together. Just because a tek says one thing does not mean its the best way. Its just how they do it- and what worked.
Another thing is, since it does carry nutrition- it can contam much easier than non-nutritive materials. So you can put yourself into a point where you just added vulnerable materials that need to be colonized to prevent invaders from colonizing- but your substrate just wants to fruit- sometimes it wont even colonize the coir on the caseing due to its already fruiting, and you don't know- and it just sits there, waiting for trich.
Here is an example- you can see the uncolonized coir in the nodes where the pins are comming up- then you look at the areas without pins, and instead of fruiting, you see fluffy white myc, trying to figure out how to deal- INSTEAD of pins.
With this caseing, its straight verm (8 flushes in...)- and you see no fluffy "feed me" myc comming out the top- it just grabs on and starts to drink and then directs the hydration to the fruits.
Personally though.. I like the "Super Spore!" caseing layer myself...
if you need a simple caseing layer- USE verm. It works wonders- then, like dumbfounded1600 is saying, you can use something that has a little more to it. 50/50+ will 'soak' up some accidty due to the bi-products of the substrate. I am bad with pH terms.
-------------------- "...Gal's seem to hate the thought of blending chicken shit in a blender. So, wash it well afterwards & DON'T tell them..." -Agar
Edited by Civ (03/18/08 10:38 AM)
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tahoe
Noob Slayer
Registered: 11/26/03
Posts: 6,274
Loc: N38.93829W119.98108
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Re: Can I spawn to coir and case with coir? [Re: Civ]
#8161627 - 03/18/08 10:39 AM (16 years, 14 days ago) |
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so does coir really work? If I spawn 3 gallons of coir with 3 cups of wbs will I get more than just using 3 cups of wbs?
Anyone know of some local spots to get it. I checked wally world, petsmart, petco
-------------------- Stop experimenting half way through your first grow. Grow it to maturity, watch it, learn from it. Do this a few times then experiment with different ideas and figure out what works best for you. My Legacy https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/22140987#22140987 Teh=The I need to proofread
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Civ
Pinning
Registered: 10/14/04
Posts: 2,537
Loc: California
Last seen: 8 months, 15 days
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Re: Can I spawn to coir and case with coir? [Re: tahoe]
#8161657 - 03/18/08 10:44 AM (16 years, 14 days ago) |
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Quote:
tahoe said: so does coir really work? If I spawn 3 gallons of coir with 3 cups of wbs will I get more than just using 3 cups of wbs?
Anyone know of some local spots to get it. I checked wally world, petsmart, petco
Coir is a great substrate- it works wonders. With just hot water and coir you "can" make a medium without treatment (no pasture/steril) and toss it straight into a spawn run. The coir expanding itself can get you on the road to a good water content.
Petsmart has a shitload of 'bed-a-beast" but if you go to a hydro shop you can get them for about 2$ a brick- petsmart gonna charge to 3x that much.
I just wish it wasn't so messy. And depending on the brand, and batch, and time of year it was proccesed, you can get some weird shit in your bricks..
I wont touch the stuff now- straw has taken my coir slot. 7$ of straw and I am growing for almost two years with it. aloing with that 4 cubic feet of verm that I got back in 2005.
-------------------- "...Gal's seem to hate the thought of blending chicken shit in a blender. So, wash it well afterwards & DON'T tell them..." -Agar
Edited by Civ (03/18/08 10:46 AM)
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tahoe
Noob Slayer
Registered: 11/26/03
Posts: 6,274
Loc: N38.93829W119.98108
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Re: Can I spawn to coir and case with coir? [Re: Civ]
#8161717 - 03/18/08 10:55 AM (16 years, 14 days ago) |
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straw is awesome but shreding it and storing it is tough for me.
My buddy is supposed to get me 5 gallons of horse shit and i will make him a huge mono tub. I have 3-1/2 gallon jars of a suitable spawn just waiting for it.
maybe I will stop by a hydro shop today and get some coir.
I am out, going to wally to get some wbs, vermiculite and a starbucks.
-------------------- Stop experimenting half way through your first grow. Grow it to maturity, watch it, learn from it. Do this a few times then experiment with different ideas and figure out what works best for you. My Legacy https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/22140987#22140987 Teh=The I need to proofread
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Civ
Pinning
Registered: 10/14/04
Posts: 2,537
Loc: California
Last seen: 8 months, 15 days
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Re: Can I spawn to coir and case with coir? [Re: tahoe]
#8161743 - 03/18/08 11:03 AM (16 years, 14 days ago) |
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Cutting straw can be a bitch- but storing isn't hard for me- I grabbed this from Petsmart- in teh Equine department
It hangs in my shed, fits on bale of straw perfectly.
-------------------- "...Gal's seem to hate the thought of blending chicken shit in a blender. So, wash it well afterwards & DON'T tell them..." -Agar
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dumbfounded1600
Stranger
Registered: 07/29/07
Posts: 2,624
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Re: Can I spawn to coir and case with coir? [Re: Civ]
#8161803 - 03/18/08 11:14 AM (16 years, 14 days ago) |
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How much?
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Civ
Pinning
Registered: 10/14/04
Posts: 2,537
Loc: California
Last seen: 8 months, 15 days
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Re: Can I spawn to coir and case with coir? [Re: dumbfounded1600]
#8161817 - 03/18/08 11:16 AM (16 years, 14 days ago) |
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It was 9$ - but it was also on clearence because a lot of the california petsmarts are doing away with the horse department. I would guess it would be able 3x that price new- a chunk of change, I know, but nothing like having straw all over the fuckiing place, and everyone that sees it is like "wtf do you have a bale of straw in the backyard?" It also helps during transportation, so that shit is not all over the back of your car.
-------------------- "...Gal's seem to hate the thought of blending chicken shit in a blender. So, wash it well afterwards & DON'T tell them..." -Agar
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